The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread

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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#61 » by The-Power » Mon Nov 4, 2019 8:52 pm

Very small sample size, obviously, so take it with a grain of salt. But one thing to keep an eye on is the Doncic-Porzingis dynamic and Porzingis impact. Not that this wasn't a main point of interest either way, but thus far it looks like Doncic and Porzingis have not yet quite figured out how to play with each other effectively, and Porzingis presence really tanks the line-up data both with and without Doncic.

I also realize that Dallas starters (3 to 5) are nothing special but their depth is really strong. So Dallas are naturally likely to look stronger against other bench units but relatively worse against other teams starters – and that this will heavily influence players net ratings, depending on when and against whom they play. Still, I'm curious to see how these numbers below develop over the course of the season. I personally hope Porzingis will just focus on becoming a defensive anchor and get his points within the flow of the offense, including as a roll man. He's just not efficient enough to justify a bunch of isolation plays and offensive primacy.

Doncic ON, Porzingis ON (156 Minutes)
108.1 ORTG, 113.8 DRTG, –5.7 NetRtg

Doncic ON, Porzingis OFF (57 Minutes)
124.6 ORTG, 102.5 DRTG, +22.1 NetRtg

Doncic OFF, Porzingis ON (38 Minutes)
104.7 ORTG, 114.0 DRTG, –9.3 NetRtg

Doncic OFF, Porzingis OFF (42 Minutes)
139.0 ORTG, 107.3 DRTG, +31.7 NetRtg
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#62 » by limbo » Mon Nov 4, 2019 9:14 pm

KP needs time, man hasn't played in 2 years. Obviously, Luka should still have the ball in his hands the majority of the time, but i think Porzingis is good enough to warrant a couple of isos per game, depending on matchups and flow of the game, of course. If not anything else, to keep him happy and mentally engaged, as i'm sure there will be instances in the postseason where Dallas will need another source of offense, someone that can take the ball and make something happen, outside of Luka. Dallas lacks another shot creator/scoring option outside Luka and KP, that's why finding ways how to make KP more effective is kinda crucial, Luka will do his thing regardless, you can't really stop him from getting where he wants and making plays.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#63 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Nov 4, 2019 10:08 pm

yeah KP's offensive game right now is largely about his own isolation which means he's not able to feed off Luka in the way the role players can by cutting to the rim or catch and shooting off his passes. I expected to see more Luka/KP PNR but KP doesn't seem super comfortable in that action right now.

Rick is starting to give KP the Dirk early exit treatment in the 1st and 3rd quarters which seems to benefit both of them. I'm hopeful that KP is just 6 games back after a really long layoff, but his offense has certainly underwhelmed so far.

Luka OTOH---what basketball joy this guy is.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#64 » by LKN » Tue Nov 5, 2019 1:25 am

yoyoboy wrote:The kid is just a monster. He looks like he’s moving almost slower than he actually is at times because he manages to get wherever he wants on the floor whenever he wants. And he always seems to make the right basketball play.


He really, really is a master of controlling the pace. It almost doesn't matter how fast he is because he somehow forces defenders to play at his pace.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#65 » by King Ken » Tue Nov 5, 2019 12:27 pm

LKN wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:The kid is just a monster. He looks like he’s moving almost slower than he actually is at times because he manages to get wherever he wants on the floor whenever he wants. And he always seems to make the right basketball play.


He really, really is a master of controlling the pace. It almost doesn't matter how fast he is because he somehow forces defenders to play at his pace.

The one are where I think he has greatly improved at is controlling tempo and pace compared to last year
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#66 » by limbo » Tue Nov 5, 2019 9:04 pm

Image
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#67 » by krii » Wed Nov 6, 2019 11:14 am

limbo wrote:Image

jaysus ...

And I thought that once Gortat retires I won't have any fav-o in the league. Boii I was wrong.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#68 » by Dr Spaceman » Wed Nov 6, 2019 1:49 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:yeah KP's offensive game right now is largely about his own isolation which means he's not able to feed off Luka in the way the role players can by cutting to the rim or catch and shooting off his passes. I expected to see more Luka/KP PNR but KP doesn't seem super comfortable in that action right now.

Rick is starting to give KP the Dirk early exit treatment in the 1st and 3rd quarters which seems to benefit both of them. I'm hopeful that KP is just 6 games back after a really long layoff, but his offense has certainly underwhelmed so far.

Luka OTOH---what basketball joy this guy is.


I told you this when he was drafted!!! Happy for you, Chuck.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#69 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Nov 7, 2019 8:49 pm

Rough game with the turnovers against Orlando--it's like he just refused to believe Isaac was really that long and that quick for much of the game. But I love how he finally adjusted and stopped trying to get the ball to KP, stopped trying to kick out and just went to the rim and finished or shot those floaters.

Fun to see a young guy who processes in real time like this and adjusts. And does whatever the game calls for. This game called for him putting his head down and getting into the lane and he did it virtually at will against a good defensive team shutting a lot of the Mavs stuff down.


Also Barea got to play and in the first half was classic JJ (let's pretend the 2nd half didn't happen....).

Mavs basketball is probably as fun as it's been since Nash played there. Obviously lots of better teams, but this team is legit fun. And it's Luka. And it's allowed the team to survive the Dirk retirement in terms of fan engagement. What a miracle. I know I say this a lot, but my little Mavs had the 5th pick and no other interesting assets and managed to get this guy. That should have never ever happened. And this isn't Curry or Kawhi or Giannis. All the evidence was right there at the time that this guy was special.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#70 » by The-Power » Thu Nov 7, 2019 9:24 pm

Two things I'd like to note in criticism of Luka.

The obvious one is defense. Luka has the tools to be a plus defender but especially the last few games, he has been extremely lazy. That was much better the first couple of games. So the question is why? And I believe this has a lot to do with conditioning. He looks tired out there quickly, and his movements have become less nimble already. He really needs to get into the best shape possible to sustain his level of play. Note that I'm not saying he has to go all-out on defense – but you should at least provide enough resistance and quick enough rotations to not be actively targeted as a 6'7 wing.

The second one is shot selection. Not generally, because I think that is fine for the most part (I loved how he used the PnR to get his defender on his back and just made floater after floater against the Magic – that was either a lob pass or a high-percentage floater). But his 3's. I just don't understand what he's doing. He's an excellent shooter (his catch-and-shoot numbers must be incredible) but still, he chooses to shot so many tough 3's. People who say that Luka is a better shooter than his percentages indicate because the shots he takes are so difficult are right. But to considerable degree, that's flat-out his fault – and you shouldn't get extra credit for taking unnecessarily tough shots. For instance, he almost never pulls up in PnRs from behind the arc. Why? That's a shot at the line when the big doesn't step up, and that shot is there a lot of times; but it's like he wants the step back rather than what should be an easier shot. He might feel more comfortable, but he shouldn't.

Texas Chuck wrote:Rough game with the turnovers against Orlando--it's like he just refused to believe Isaac was really that long and that quick for much of the game.

I'm seriously considering proclaiming Isaac the best defensive player in the league. This year, he has been breathtakingly amazing. There is nobody more disruptive than him. Some of the quickest hands in the league, in the body of a 6'11 guy who glides on the court like a Guard, anticipates so well and is always alert and engaged. He can do it all. He is perfect for this era. I'm in love with his defense, it's pure art.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#71 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Nov 7, 2019 9:35 pm

The-Power wrote:I'm seriously considering proclaiming Isaac the best defensive player in the league. This year, he has been breathtakingly amazing. There is nobody more disruptive than him. Some of the quickest hands in the league, in the body of a 6'11 guy who glides on the court like a Guard, anticipates so well and is always alert and engaged. He can do it all. He is perfect for this era. I'm in love with his defense, it's pure art.


yeah I've seen only 2 Magic games and parts of a 3rd this year, but that dude is a defensive beast. Last night he almost beat Dallas by himself with his defense. As fun as Luka is to watch on offense, I might enjoy Isaac on defense just as much. Simply incredible.



And I agree 100% with Luka and his 3's off the dribble and his pet step back. I mean it's cool that he can always get the shot off but if he can't make them at a higher percentage it should be more of a last resort than a regular go-to. I'm assuming once some of the arrogance of youth wears off he will dial that back---or least I hope.

As to his defense, yeah its lacking. And yeah he's probably still not in the kind of shape he needs to be in. If Barea's run means he's going to start creeping back into the rotation that should help Luka, because Wright and Brunson haven't been very effective in creating offense for others consistently. Barea can and will do that and it means either lowered minutes for Luka or some time off ball which should provide more energy to defend.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#72 » by Johnny Firpo » Thu Nov 7, 2019 10:35 pm

Good call on the pick & roll pull ups and I would say pull ups in general. Luka should take more of those instead of the tough step backs.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#73 » by Dr Spaceman » Fri Nov 8, 2019 11:01 am

Hmmm- I will go ahead and disagree with the sentiment here about his step back. It feels a little bit too much to me like clipping his wings. I get that the Mavs look really strong right now, but we have to remember Luka is still a 20 year old who’s figuring out the ame. He might not hit the step back at a good percentage right now, but you best believe all the in-game reps he’s getting are going to help him develop that skill. And frankly when he gets to be an MVP level player in his mid-20s, teams are not going to leave him open, ever. The step back will be an incredibly valuable tool when that time comes.

The Pelicans made a pretty big mistake IMO under Monty Williams when they realized they had a playoff core and started to force Davis into a role instead of letting him be a young guy who makes mistakes. It took Davis a long time to be comfortable being a creator for himself and others and I think a large part of the reason is that 2014-15 season where they seemed to decide they were gonna go for it and use Davis strictly as a finisher.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#74 » by Johnny Firpo » Fri Nov 8, 2019 1:16 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:Hmmm- I will go ahead and disagree with the sentiment here about his step back. It feels a little bit too much to me like clipping his wings. I get that the Mavs look really strong right now, but we have to remember Luka is still a 20 year old who’s figuring out the ame. He might not hit the step back at a good percentage right now, but you best believe all the in-game reps he’s getting are going to help him develop that skill. And frankly when he gets to be an MVP level player in his mid-20s, teams are not going to leave him open, ever. The step back will be an incredibly valuable tool when that time comes.

The Pelicans made a pretty big mistake IMO under Monty Williams when they realized they had a playoff core and started to force Davis into a role instead of letting him be a young guy who makes mistakes. It took Davis a long time to be comfortable being a creator for himself and others and I think a large part of the reason is that 2014-15 season where they seemed to decide they were gonna go for it and use Davis strictly as a finisher.


Yeah, that's not a bad point either, and I totally agree about Davis! I thought they made a huge mistake and in addition to what you said, they didn't have that second talent Davis really needed, and if they would have been worse for a year or two while allowing Davis to be his own player, the end result probably would have been better (at least they have Zion now).
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#75 » by Oscar9992 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 3:03 pm

Luka needs 7 assists in his next 3 games to join Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson as only players with 1500 pts, 500 rebs and 500 assists in first 82 NBA games.

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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#76 » by The-Power » Fri Nov 8, 2019 3:42 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:Hmmm- I will go ahead and disagree with the sentiment here about his step back. It feels a little bit too much to me like clipping his wings. I get that the Mavs look really strong right now, but we have to remember Luka is still a 20 year old who’s figuring out the ame. He might not hit the step back at a good percentage right now, but you best believe all the in-game reps he’s getting are going to help him develop that skill. And frankly when he gets to be an MVP level player in his mid-20s, teams are not going to leave him open, ever. The step back will be an incredibly valuable tool when that time comes.

I do see the value in that, no question. Hence, I want him to practice that shot and I want him to take it in games. But this should not mean that he doesn't take easier 3's. It's good for his team and it's also practice. Also, it's not like Doncic is just doing his step-back no matter what. When he's not shooting well, he doesn't take all that many in insolation. And it's exactly in those moments that I really don't understand when he doesn't try easier 3's off the PnR. They are there, but he doesn't take them – instead he looks to get into the lane for a floater, lay-up, kick-out or lob pass. Good or great options, but still; there is no reason to try pull up 3's off the PnR when the big is not stepping up.

And it's not like in the future, teams will never make mistakes in PnR coverage or there will never be a big unable to step up properly. In fact, he needs to take these shots sometimes so that the bigs have to expect it. That would open up a lot more space that he can use to wreak havoc. Also, we all know Luka wants to win now. So it's not like he's just deliberately trying things out in anticipation of what will come in the future. He wants to make the playoffs now, he should get experience in the playoffs now, so he should strive to optimize his offensive output now. This is not Davis situation either; him not learning how to create is entirely different from Luka pulling up for 3's in the PnRs when they're available. It's not as if he should abandon the other shots (and again, this is not only about step-back 3's but also his refusal to pull up in PnRs in general), so in that sense it only makes him a more diversified scorer that will benefit him later.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#77 » by PockyCandy » Sat Nov 9, 2019 5:01 pm

I only got to watch the first half, but Luka looked incredible from what I saw. He looks a little more athletic this season, and he seems to have improved his conditioning. Although part of that may be due to having a better team around him.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#78 » by Dr Spaceman » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:40 am

There’s a play in the Memphis game in the first quarter where Luka completely shakes his defender with an up and under and you hear the defender scream “oh ****” as he realizes how badly hit bit on the fake. I love that ****. There is something so satisfying about a guy that moves so slowly and deliberately and yet can’t be guarded at all. “We’re gonna go at my speed and I’m still gonna get there before you”.

It’s like watching a David Fincher movie where you feel like nothing is happening until that one moment where it feels like everything is happening.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#79 » by LeBird » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:44 am

I thought I'd have to wait a long time to see another player as amazing all-round, with high BBIQ, like LeBron and Bird but Doncic seems like he has what it takes to be a transcendent top 10 all-time talent. Big call but when you see the things he is doing already, wish such confidence and skill, he is only going to get better.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#80 » by Laimbeer » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:42 pm

I know some dislike these stats, but a 28.8 PER and .242 W/S per 48 is insane and this guy is 20. Damn near averaging a triple double. I was surprised to see his 3P% isn't higher, but that can change.

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