Peak: Kyle Lowry vs Jimmy Butler vs AK47

EasternHeretic · Post #1 » by **EasternHeretic** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:03 pm

How do you rank their peaks

liamliam1234 · Post #2 » by **liamliam1234** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:23 pm

Come on, do not make me do Andrei or Lowry like that. Not really a fair comparison. Peak Butler is like off-brand Kawhi; peak Lowry is off-brand Chauncey with a three-point shot. And peak Andrei is like a rich man's Diaw.

HBK_Kliq_33 · Post #3 » by **HBK_Kliq_33** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:02 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:Come on, do not make me do Andrei or Lowry like that. Not really a fair comparison. Peak Butler is like off-brand Kawhi; peak Lowry is off-brand Chauncey with a three-point shot. And peak Andrei is like a rich man's Diaw.

Butler is definitely no Kawhi, not even close to the same level playoff scorer. Butler likes to play point guard and run the offense as well. That's like saying Pippen is Jordan, just different style and different level players.

Shaka_Zulu · Post #4 » by **Shaka_Zulu** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:03 pm

This is insulting to Butler.

Dr Spaceman · Post #5 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:32 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:Come on, do not make me do Andrei or Lowry like that. Not really a fair comparison. Peak Butler is like off-brand Kawhi; peak Lowry is off-brand Chauncey with a three-point shot. And peak Andrei is like a rich man's Diaw.

I’m sorry what? Kirilenko was a DPOY contender and arguably a top 10 player multiple seasons. I wouldn’t argue with someone saying he is the best out of these three.

mademan · Post #6 » by **mademan** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:35 pm

Shaka_Zulu wrote:This is insulting to Butler.

It really isnt

HBK_Kliq_33 · Post #7 » by **HBK_Kliq_33** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:41 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:
liamliam1234 wrote:Come on, do not make me do Andrei or Lowry like that. Not really a fair comparison. Peak Butler is like off-brand Kawhi; peak Lowry is off-brand Chauncey with a three-point shot. And peak Andrei is like a rich man's Diaw.

I’m sorry what? Kirilenko was a DPOY contender and arguably a top 10 player multiple seasons. I wouldn’t argue with someone saying he is the best out of these three.

Ya Diaw comparo is head scratching as well, he must of been sleepy because usually that poster is not bad. AK was athletic and Diaw is borderline fat? They are nothing alike besides they are both good passers. AK can play point forward and also an excellent help defender. He was the total package as a sidekick but just injury prone and never had his Batman.

liamliam1234 · Post #8 » by **liamliam1234** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:28 pm

I said rich man’s, lol. But yes, it was a hot take offhand thinking about offensive role; maybe something akin to a defence-first Grant Hill would be more fair.

Definitely do not see him as a top ten guy, though (never all-NBA, even in relatively healthy seasons), and DPoY candidate in a league with Duncan, Garnett, Bowen, Wallace, Camby, etc., seems like something of a similar stretch.

HBK_Kliq_33 · Post #9 » by **HBK_Kliq_33** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:33 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:I said rich man’s, lol. But yes, it was a hot take offhand thinking about offensive role; maybe something akin to a defence-first Grant Hill would be more fair.

Definitely do not see him as a top ten guy, though (never all-NBA, even in relatively healthy seasons), and DPoY candidate in a league with Duncan, Garnett, Bowen, Wallace, Camby, etc., seems like something of a similar stretch.

AK was weak as a man to man defender, so ya definetely not close to those guys. Boris Diaw though? Lol

liamliam1234 · Post #10 » by **liamliam1234** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:44 pm

Boris Diaw if he had a motor and a typical athlete’s body is not tooooo ridiculous, I feel, but I do see how it confused the point.

Dr Spaceman · Post #11 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:18 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:I said rich man’s, lol. But yes, it was a hot take offhand thinking about offensive role; maybe something akin to a defence-first Grant Hill would be more fair.

Definitely do not see him as a top ten guy, though (never all-NBA, even in relatively healthy seasons), and DPoY candidate in a league with Duncan, Garnett, Bowen, Wallace, Camby, etc., seems like something of a similar stretch.

AK was a rim protector though. His closest comparison in the current league would be Draymond but AK had more length and height and was crazy active in the passing lanes. He was like a weird hybrid of Pippen and Draymond, a;though not on the level of Pippen as a 1v1 guy. There has really been no one like him.

As far as offense AK’s role was more like Shawn Marion. He was a garbage man who could play make a bit and filled it up in transition and on the glass but didn’t do any creating. Diaw at his peak was essentially a lead ball handler.

liamliam1234 · Post #12 » by **liamliam1234** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:27 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:There has really been no one like him.

Agreed, which is why I struggled to come up with anyone to use as a half-decent frame of reference.

As far as offense AK’s role was more like Shawn Marion. He was a garbage man who could play make a bit and filled it up in transition and on the glass but didn’t do any creating. Diaw at his peak was essentially a lead ball handler.

Diaw was absolutely more of a passer, but AK’s peak was pretty respectable; 20.5 assist percentage, with another season with 18%.

But his passing peak was much shorter than I remembered, and worse than expected, so fair enough; Hill is definitely going too far in the other direction. Then again, if anything that makes me want to double down on the “Diaw of defence” take. :lol:

limbo · Post #13 » by **limbo** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:28 pm

Kirilenko had a weird NBA career.

Dude came into the league right as Malone and Stockton were on their last legs. After those two left, the Jazz really couldn't bring any talent to replace them. They were playing guys like Raja Bell, Arroyo, DeShawn Stevenson, Giricek, Sasha Pavlovic, Raul Lopez. It was at this time that Kirilenko seemed at his most dominant. He was legitimately looking like a Top 10 player in the league, making the Jazz look like a .500 team with Greg Ostertag as his best teammate, weak supporting cast, no 3pt shooting on the roster... Then he injures his wrist in 2005, misses half the season, and when he comes back the team had structured their offense around Deron Williams, Boozer and Okur and his offensive impact was never the same. His defense continued being elite but couldn't cover other hugely negative players on that end. Meanwhile, the Jazz offense was one of the best in the league, with Kirilenko playing a reduced role, which is extra weird since Kirilenko seemed to be the type of player who would theoretically be ideal as a 3rd option for a strong contender. Would the Jazz offense be even better if AK47 featured more prominently or was he just a guy that took advantage of a weak cast pre Boozer/Williams and it made him look better than he was? How much of this is on Kirilenko and how much on Sloan? I mean, Kirilenko had like the worst USG% out of all Jazz roster in some of those years, as a starter... I also remember him complaining about his role at the time, even stating he would want to return to Europe if it meant a bigger role.

Post #14 » by **GeorgeMarcus** » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:20 am

Love all 3 players. There are situations where each would be preferable over the other 2. If you need a savvy floor general who can space the floor, Lowry is your guy. If you need someone to take on a heavier scoring load, Butler is your guy. If you need a swiss army knife who can bolster the defense, AK is your guy.

I voted AK just because. I really wish his prime wasn't shortened by injuries.

No-more-rings · Post #15 » by **No-more-rings** » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:10 am

For those who are so confident that it’s Butler, has he really ever put it all together in one season? He seems to never be fully healthy for both regular and playoffs in the same year. 2017 was the only year in his prime where he played close to a full season(76 games), but then had a middling playoff performance. He’s had some good moments in the playoffs, but overall seems to be inconsistent from year to year so it’s like we don’t know who the real Butler is. Even with that i think you’d have to take him over Lowry, i’m not sure about Kirilenko though, I’d probably need to rewatch some games from him.