Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe

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Better at scoring?

Kobe
8
40%
Gervin
12
60%
 
Total votes: 20

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Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#1 » by Narigo » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:15 pm

Who do you think is the better scorer?
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#2 » by 70sFan » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:26 pm

Strictly scorer? Gervin - just as good shooter but better off-ball player and finisher.

Kobe is better offensively overall due to his playmaking and ball-handling though.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#3 » by Jiminy Glick » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:56 pm

Definitely Gervin, I am not a fan of Kobe's scoring or his offense, he didn't incorproate his teammates enough and had too many field goal attempts relative to his efficiency. Kobe's defense is better than his offense.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#4 » by penbeast0 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:18 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:Definitely Gervin, I am not a fan of Kobe's scoring or his offense, he didn't incorproate his teammates enough and had too many field goal attempts relative to his efficiency. Kobe's defense is better than his offense.


With a lot of scorers, you might make the argument that Kobe shot too much and didn't incorporate his teammates enough but Gervin was not particularly interested in playmaking or really anything other than scoring. He was more efficient than Kobe but Kobe does also give you more spacing.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#5 » by Jiminy Glick » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:57 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:Definitely Gervin, I am not a fan of Kobe's scoring or his offense, he didn't incorproate his teammates enough and had too many field goal attempts relative to his efficiency. Kobe's defense is better than his offense.


With a lot of scorers, you might make the argument that Kobe shot too much and didn't incorporate his teammates enough but Gervin was not particularly interested in playmaking or really anything other than scoring. He was more efficient than Kobe but Kobe does also give you more spacing.


Yes but this thread is about scoring. In terms of offense I don't think either incorporated their teammates enough. An argument could be made that Kobe was capable of averaging 7 assists per game but he didn't do it.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#6 » by No-more-rings » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:32 pm

I feel like Kobe went against better defenses and individual defenders, so that could explain away the small efficiency edge for Gervin and i just feel like Gervin’s scoring didn’t quite pressure a defense in the same way as Kobe’s despite again small efficiency difference.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#7 » by No-more-rings » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:40 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:Kobe's defense is better than his offense.

I don’t know how you get away with trolling comments like this.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#8 » by Jiminy Glick » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:34 am

No-more-rings wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:Kobe's defense is better than his offense.

I don’t know how you get away with trolling comments like this.


Wtf? He has 12 defensive team selections (tied for second most ever), great size and athleticism. Offensively he is too ball dominant and not efficient enough. I am not a fan of his offense at all. People are allowed to have different opinions than you. Don't even bother responding.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#9 » by 70sFan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:11 am

No-more-rings wrote:I feel like Kobe went against better defenses and individual defenders, so that could explain away the small efficiency edge for Gervin and i just feel like Gervin’s scoring didn’t quite pressure a defense in the same way as Kobe’s despite again small efficiency difference.

At the same time, Kobe played in more efficient era with three point line, lack of handchecking and loosier ball handling rules. Gervin was still more efficient.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "pressure" defenses. Gervin played more off-ball than Kobe, so naturally defense would react on him differently, but off-ball scoring is extremely valuable.

It's a good comparison and both choices are good of course.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#10 » by _Game7_ » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:44 am

Kobe. One on one he is a match-up nightmare, help has to come, sometimes more than 2, that means people are open on the weak side. Off the ball Kobe always flourished, always been a respectable shooter, great play-maker/passer when he tried, and his all around gravity make this an easy one for me. This board is sometimes depressing when Kobe is brought up, we are talking about at WORST top 15 player all time, top 2 SG, scoring champion, 1st team defense, NBA champion, MVP, cold blooded mentality. Sure he is not Jordan, or Lebron, but man is pretty bad ass mofo in his own right.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#11 » by 70sFan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:40 am

_Game7_ wrote:Kobe. One on one he is a match-up nightmare, help has to come, sometimes more than 2, that means people are open on the weak side. Off the ball Kobe always flourished, always been a respectable shooter, great play-maker/passer when he tried, and his all around gravity make this an easy one for me. This board is sometimes depressing when Kobe is brought up, we are talking about at WORST top 15 player all time, top 2 SG, scoring champion, 1st team defense, NBA champion, MVP, cold blooded mentality. Sure he is not Jordan, or Lebron, but man is pretty bad ass mofo in his own right.


All you said is true, but you can say the same with Gervin. He couldn't be stopped without help, he was better off-ball scorer and comparable shooter. His playmaking wasn't there, but it's not the point of this thread.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#12 » by No-more-rings » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:54 pm

70sFan wrote:At the same time, Kobe played in more efficient era with three point line,


According to bball reference, Gervin only had 3 seasons where there wasn't a 3 point line and ironically those were his most efficient seasons, so i don't get this point especially when Kobe was never some great 3 point shooter anyhow.

70sFan wrote:lack of handchecking and loosier ball handling rules. Gervin was still more efficient.


Kobe's first 8 seasons had handchecking remember? And he played in probably the toughest defensive era from like 99-04 or whatever. I don't know how to weigh the different ball handling rules thing.

70sFan wrote:I'm also not sure what you mean by "pressure" defenses. Gervin played more off-ball than Kobe, so naturally defense would react on him differently, but off-ball scoring is extremely valuable.


It's not any more inherently valuable than being on ball and being able to be at the command of attack. Kobe kept constant pressure on defenses in a way Gervin did not. If you want to exclude that from scoring go ahead, but i don't think you should.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#13 » by 70sFan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:36 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
70sFan wrote:At the same time, Kobe played in more efficient era with three point line,


According to bball reference, Gervin only had 3 seasons where there wasn't a 3 point line and ironically those were his most efficient seasons, so i don't get this point especially when Kobe was never some great 3 point shooter anyhow.

70sFan wrote:lack of handchecking and loosier ball handling rules. Gervin was still more efficient.


Kobe's first 8 seasons had handchecking remember? And he played in probably the toughest defensive era from like 99-04 or whatever. I don't know how to weigh the different ball handling rules thing.

70sFan wrote:I'm also not sure what you mean by "pressure" defenses. Gervin played more off-ball than Kobe, so naturally defense would react on him differently, but off-ball scoring is extremely valuable.


It's not any more inherently valuable than being on ball and being able to be at the command of attack. Kobe kept constant pressure on defenses in a way Gervin did not. If you want to exclude that from scoring go ahead, but i don't think you should.


Three point line opens the game even for players who are not shooters, I hate when people say that three point line wouldn't help players who didn't have range. You also compare early 1980s three point line when teams played like it didn't exist, it's silly to think that players who played in early 1980s experienced the same influence of three point line as today.

Ball handling rules is huge for perimeter players. It's not a coindence how much easier it is to blow defender by today than back then. It's not because defenders got worse, but offensive players have much more freedom to operate today.

I definitely include Kobe's pressure here, but I think that Gervin balances it with his better off-ball game and finishing ability.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#14 » by homecourtloss » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:07 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:Kobe's defense is better than his offense.

I don’t know how you get away with trolling comments like this.


Wtf? He has 12 defensive team selections (tied for second most ever),


Appeals to accolades don’t always hold up well in the face of data that’s available, especially for defense. Kobe was not an all nba defender in 12 different seasons.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#15 » by RCM88x » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:26 pm

Peak wise I got to go with Gervin, both is '78 and '80 season are right up there with the greatest perimeter scoring/offensive season of all time. Honestly his whole prime from '78 to '82 are all really good, atleast equal or better than Kobe's best.

Kobe's got a huge edge in longevity and consistency though, as well as the playoff volume. I'd probably pick him career wise, but peak/prime I think Gervin has the edge.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#16 » by No-more-rings » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:26 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:I don’t know how you get away with trolling comments like this.


Wtf? He has 12 defensive team selections (tied for second most ever),


Appeals to accolades don’t always hold up well in the face of data that’s available, especially for defense. Kobe was not an all nba defender in 12 different seasons.

Dude he once said something about Klay was better offensively than Kobe. I probably shouldn't have bothered in the first place lol. Needless to say his opinions on Kobe are way farfetched.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#17 » by Baski » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:23 pm

_Game7_ wrote:Kobe. One on one he is a match-up nightmare, help has to come, sometimes more than 2, that means people are open on the weak side. Off the ball Kobe always flourished, always been a respectable shooter, great play-maker/passer when he tried, and his all around gravity make this an easy one for me. This board is sometimes depressing when Kobe is brought up, we are talking about at WORST top 15 player all time, top 2 SG, scoring champion, 1st team defense, NBA champion, MVP, cold blooded mentality. Sure he is not Jordan, or Lebron, but man is pretty bad ass mofo in his own right.

I lean towards Kobe but the bolded made me lol.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#18 » by bledredwine » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:01 pm

Honestly, I’d take Kobe.

He had the full repertoire.

But Gervin is no joke. He had like four scoring titles and was the first guard to win multiple championships, or something along those lines.

Still, from watching, it’s just hard to top Kobe’s scoring ability. And when he was on fire? Dear lord.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#19 » by Colbinii » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:35 pm

bledredwine wrote:Honestly, I’d take Kobe.

He had the full repertoire.

But Gervin is no joke. He had like four scoring titles and was the first guard to win multiple championships, or something along those lines.

Still, from watching, it’s just hard to top Kobe’s scoring ability. And when he was on fire? Dear lord.


Gervin was never close to winning a championship. Many guards won multiple championships before him and they played with the GOAT Bill Russell.

Gervin only made it to the second round 3 times, even including his ABA years.
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Re: Better Scorer: Gervin or Kobe 

Post#20 » by bledredwine » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:41 pm

Colbinii wrote:
bledredwine wrote:Honestly, I’d take Kobe.

He had the full repertoire.

But Gervin is no joke. He had like four scoring titles and was the first guard to win multiple championships, or something along those lines.

Still, from watching, it’s just hard to top Kobe’s scoring ability. And when he was on fire? Dear lord.


Gervin was never close to winning a championship. Many guards won multiple championships before him and they played with the GOAT Bill Russell.

Gervin only made it to the second round 3 times, even including his ABA years.


I meant titles, not championships. He was the first guard to win multiple titles (scoring), in a row. It’s something like that.

I know that he was championship-less.

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