I'm rewatching 2016-2018 finals...

[Jaivl]

Sorry about the personal problems you had, but let me briefly summarize the '17 and '18 Finals for you...

The 2017 Finals had some fantastic stretches despite the overall lopsidedness. Was like an All-Star Game where everyone was trying.

'18 on the other hand was a complete farce and other than game 1 you couldn't pay me to rewatch.

Can't even rewatch G1, **** them refs.

[RCM88x]

I remember 2 games into the 2016 series, everyone was wondering who was gonna be FMVP for the Warriors, lot of people thought it should be Livingston. Pretty much everyone thought the series was over, even then. Warriors bench was just murdering the Cavs 2nd unit guys. Wasn't until they basically dropped Delly, Mo, Moz and Shump from the rotation that the series started to turn.

Which I think is always sort of crazy because you can make the argument that Delly and Moz were the Cavs 2nd and 3rd best players in the 2015 series. A year later and they can barely even get on the court. Obviously both had injury issues that year, and probably weren't 100%, but to me I always thought it was amazing we won that series with those two guys basically making zero contribution.

[_Game7_]

Watch on YouTube

Full game

[CodeBreaker]

Fun. I hope that you enjoy it. I do this from the 80s-90s frequently.

Where do you watch full games of the 90s?

[Dr Positivity]

Game 2 Cavs 77 @ Warriors 110

Watch on YouTube

Key stats:
Draymond 28 pts (11-20, 5-8 3pt), 7 reb, 5 ast
Curry 18 pts (7-11 FGA) 9 reb, 4 ast in 24 minutes due to foul trouble
Klay 17 points (6-13)
Bogut 5 blocks

Lebron 19 pts (7-17), 9 ast, 8 reb, 4 stl, 7 Tov
Kyrie 10 pts (5-14), 1 ast
Love 5 pts (2-7) in 20 minutes left with concussion symptoms
RJ 12 pts, 5 reb

The Warriors offense was in "light years ahead mode" with the majority off their offense either being from cuts in the half court/transition or open 3s. This was in part due to their great passing and spacing, but just as much a weak defensive performance by the Cavs. They lost track of cutters all game and it wasn't because of Curry attention who was sitting half the time with foul trouble. They were too concerned about Klay dribbling inside the arc and collapsed on him and other players repeatedly in return for leaving Draymond wide open. Draymond destroyed them with 28 pts and 5 3s along with his usual good D and passing and the emotional impact of the heart of the Warriors having that type of game was felt. Through 2 games he is my easy Warriors MVP and considering his Game 7 line it's pretty easy to say already he was the deserving Warriors Finals MVP if they had won. Curry was very good for only playing 24 minutes and was highly efficient outside and inside, and didn't miss a step when he got back on the court after so long. Bogut's 4 blocks in the first quarter was huge and what they were missing in Game 7. Lebron was active for good and bad. He started off the game great on defense and passing, then started to figure things out as a driver, but faded in the second half all around and ended up with 7 turnovers. Kyrie had an all around terrible game shooting, passing and defending. 2016 Love is not that guy. Tristan had some moments energy wise mostly in the first half, and RJ showing he deserves to play was a series changer for the Cavs, as was Mozgov proving he should not be playing. Even when the Cavs were winning in the first quarter, it looked too hard for them to score and too easy for Golden State. Considering 73 wins, 2-0, this blowout and an 8 game sample size of Iguodala being a perfect Lebron defender it's easy to see how this finals would have been considered a coronation by this point, so interesting to see how this flips so much.

[bledredwine]

Fun. I hope that you enjoy it. I do this from the 80s-90s frequently.

Where do you watch full games of the 90s?

I just use YouTube. Because the Bulls were so popular, there are quite a few.

[KTM_2813]

He puts up amazing stats but so does Westbrook. Most people know that bonehead Westbrook isn't nearly as impactful as his stats say. The same goes for LeBron because LeBron monopolized every team he was on.

LeBron's career record vs Curry's warriors: 7-15

LeBron's career record vs Duncan's spurs: 5-11

Lebron ball doesn't work when he's facing actually good teams. He is capable of beating up on those college level teams he faced in the east his entire career though.

I see you post random numbers with no context.

Sorry, im going to disengage because I want to keep my sanity and not be banned for engaging with a ...

He gets his stats but his teams usually underperformed in big series. Even the titles he won (13,16) he had to have a miracle to save him (ray and Draymond). Everybody beat Westbrook and Durant sooner or later. I will give him a pass in 07 because he was young. A combined record of 12-22 vs the top teams in the finals is still sad for a goat level player.

Dirk beat younger and better spurs in 06 with just as little supporting cast as LeBron had in 2014.

We can agree to disagree on the monopilizer LeBron.

LeBron's ball dominance is certainly more extreme than, say, Jordan's, but for the most part has never been on the "monopoly" level. The 2015 and 2018 playoffs were pretty close, but those teams sucked offensively and LeBron pretty much had to take everything over himself. On the other end of the spectrum, the 2013 Heat ran an amazing offense where LeBron did a lot of his damage off ball. And Kyrie Irving actually had the ball in his hands more than LeBron in 2017.

We can agree or disagree on certain specifics, but the idea that LeBron always monopolizes the offense is objectively false.

[70sFan]

Fun. I hope that you enjoy it. I do this from the 80s-90s frequently.

Where do you watch full games of the 90s?

I just use YouTube. Because the Bulls were so popular, there are quite a few.

Such a shame that you can tell this only about Jordan Bulls. I'd love to see more 1970-82 Bulls footage.

[bledredwine]

Where do you watch full games of the 90s?

I just use YouTube. Because the Bulls were so popular, there are quite a few.

Such a shame that you can tell this only about Jordan Bulls. I'd love to see more 1970-82 Bulls footage.

I know, right?

You can find some playoff games but that's about it.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Wasn't until they basically dropped Delly, Mo, Moz and Shump from the rotation that the series started to turn.

Agree with this, but after rewatching game 1 where the game changing run happened while Delly was on the floor, I have a hard time seeing that he was the problem. He had a turnover, but other than that I don't really see what he did wrong. Yet the Warriors had a huge run with him on the floor. When he stopped playing the series changed.

[LKN]

Fun. I hope that you enjoy it. I do this from the 80s-90s frequently.

Where do you watch full games of the 90s?

Almost all the playoff games are on youtube. Just search for them.

[Dr Positivity]

Game 3, June 8th 2016

Warriors 90 @ Cavaliers 120

Watch on YouTube

Lebron 32 points (14-26), 11 reb, 6 ast, 2 blk
Kyrie 30 points (12-25), 8 ast
JR 20 points (5-10 from 3)
Tristan Thompson 14 pts, 13 reb

Curry 19 pts (6-13), 6 TOV
Klay 10 points (4-13)
Barnes 18 pts (7-11)

This was as fraudulent a 19 points by Curry as it gets. About midway through the 3rd he had 2 points and a handful of turnovers and was putting together a Lebron Game 5 against Boston in 2010, Harden Game 6 against the Spurs level stinker. It was a positive for him to get going for the next game though. The Cavs did much better job putting pressure on the point of attack and switching, and even Kyrie was solid on D. Kyrie destroyed the Warriors from the outside in the first quarter and almost blew the game open by himself taking advantage of so called elite defender Klay and other Warriors switched onto him, then was relatively quiet the rest of the way but the impact of having to worry about him more was likely felt in other players like TT and JR getting open. The Warriors did a poor job covering JR's 3s, and TT's rebounds and finishes were important as the Warriors were in this game down 7-8 points in 2nd half and he had some hustle plays that helped keep them at a distance, and of course he was a critical defensive player. I was surprised that 2 and a half games into this series Lebron was still kind of having a bad series, but 3rd quarter in this game was a major turning point and the big thing was that he was hitting jumpers to avoid having to drive against Iguodala and Draymond, and it was needed since with Curry having a good 3rd quarter without it he might have erased a big lead. Kyrie was dominant in the first quarter and Lebron the whole second half so most of the time GSW was just getting wrecked by one star or another. The Warriors depth played better than the Cavs again as Barnes had a good game. Overall it was hard to overcome the combination of Kyrie outclassing Curry to this level in addition to Lebron getting going.

[Dr Positivity]

Golden State 108 @ Cleveland 97
June 10th, 2016

Watch on YouTube

Curry 38 pts, 6 ast, 11-25 FGA, 7-13 3P
Klay 25 pts 7-14, 4-9 3P
Draymond 9 pts 12 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 stl
Iguodala 10 pts, 7 ast

Lebron 25 pts, 13 reb, 9 ast, 11-21 FGA
Kyrie 34 pts, 4 ast, 3 stl, 14-28
Love 11 pts, 3-6 FGA
Tristan 10 pts, 6 Orb, 5-7

Warriors 17-36 from 3, Cavs 6-25

One of Curry's highest scoring finals games, although there was a lot of stat padding at the end (the Cavs somehow ended up with 20 points despite getting ultra dominated on defense in the 4th) so all the stars scoring look slightly better than it was, Lebron's stats in particular are a little misleading. In addition to going off from 3, Curry's passing was better than the 6 ast show as he got a lot of hockey assists and made the right reads off Cavs selling out to stop him. The impact of Curry was definitely felt all over this game as the attention he drew led to other open players. The 3rd quarter was a classic Warriors quarter where the Cavs were looking to pull away after going up 8 and their crowd being loud but Curry and Klay started hitting a lot of 3s to cancel it out by themselves and eventually lead. The Cavs played good defense for 3 out of 4 quarters, but in the 3rd they started making some mistakes again like in Game 2, and the Warriors are possibly the best team ever at taking advantage of the opponents mistakes on defense of not rotating properly or picking up a guy in transition. In the 4th the key was the Warriors hustle of players like Iguodala, Draymond and Curry getting 2nd chance points (unlike getting dominated on the glass the first half) to make up for some good initial Cavs defense.

The Warriors defense did an excellent job on Lebron, and it is very difficult for Lebron and Kyrie to drive on the wall set up by Iguodala, Draymond and sometimes Bogut, and while Tristan Thompson did excellent job on switches and rebounding especially in the first half and is the borderline defensive MVP of this series so far on either team, he also hurts the Cavs spacing. Cavs were forced to try Lebron and Love frontcourt to open up some more room for Lebron and Kyrie and then some Frye minutes. Kyrie had some good moments but a lot of the game was not making a real impact and made some stagnant plays in the 4th. The Cavs also do a good job preventing Golden State from driving into the paint however Golden State has more shooting talent so if neither team drives well they will take that trade-off. Varejao had some good minutes for Golden State that didn't show in the boxscore and Barnes had an important 14 pts, I am not surprised his self immolation costs the Warriors this series as with Draymond not being that aggressive taking 3s they needed those points and SF/PF shooting, same for Livingston who may have only had 8 points on 3-8 but he at least makes them worry about him compared to some of these players like Delly or Shumpert. Overall this was a win by the Warriors defense due to their big stand in the 4th, holding Lebron in check and holding Kyrie to ok efficiency game. It was far from a perfect offensive game as the Cavs defended them well in the first half and in the 4th they were also defended well initially but got some second chance plays. They were however just sharper on offense than the previous game moving without the ball and making extra passes and seeing mistakes in the Cavs D.

MVPs of each game:
Game 1 - Draymond
Game 2 - Draymond
Game 3 - Lebron
Game 4 - Curry

[Vladimir777]

That's cool you're going back to rewatch the Finals now. I started watching basketball more seriously around 2014 or 2015 or so, and, with each year, I put more time into watching. But I've also had huge periods where I couldn't watch due to personal issues (struggled with addiction in the past), so I get not being able to really focus on basketball when other things get in the way.

At the moment I'm in nursing school, so it's going to be tough to follow it that closely, but I'll do my best. But, I swear, it seems like people in here somehow have the ability to watch every game, which blows my mind.

[Vladimir777]

That WCF in 2018 was the best series I've ever watched outside of the 2016 Finals, and in some ways I might've even preferred it. Great basketball.

[Peregrine01]

Pretty interesting to rehash that 2016 finals. For me, that finals ranks right up there with the 2007 Suns Spurs series as the most glaring examples of the NBA's extracurricular interference having an outsized impact on the outcome of a series. In both cases, the NBA's decisions seemed in part to be driven by a desire to ameliorate some past incident or mistake - in the 2007 Suns/Spurs, it was the fallout from the Malice at the Palace; and in the 2016 series, it was the backlash from not suspending Draymond when he should've been in game 4 of the OKC series.

[CodeBreaker]

That WCF in 2018 was the best series I've ever watched outside of the 2016 Finals, and in some ways I might've even preferred it. Great basketball.

If only CP3 played in either Game 6 or 7....

[Vladimir777]

That WCF in 2018 was the best series I've ever watched outside of the 2016 Finals, and in some ways I might've even preferred it. Great basketball.

If only CP3 played in either Game 6 or 7....

It broke my heart at the time.

[Dr Positivity]

Pretty interesting to rehash that 2016 finals. For me, that finals ranks right up there with the 2007 Suns Spurs series as the most glaring examples of the NBA's extracurricular interference having an outsized impact on the outcome of a series. In both cases, the NBA's decisions seemed in part to be driven by a desire to ameliorate some past incident or mistake - in the 2007 Suns/Spurs, it was the fallout from the Malice at the Palace; and in the 2016 series, it was the backlash from not suspending Draymond when he should've been in game 4 of the OKC series.

Being up 3-2 with Draymond back is still a position Warriors should win if they're better (to say nothing of the game they could have won 3-1). Can't excuse losing a Game 7 at home

I'm more sympathetic to the Suns cause

- They were forced to win a game in San Antonio after the suspension to get the series back on track, while the Warriors just had to win at home
- The whole "step on the court" rule is pretty silly in my opinion - seems like something that should be a fine, or a suspension if you make a clear attempt to start a fight
- It would be one thing if the NBA suspended Draymond for a nut punch - but all they did was give him a flagrant, which caused the suspension. I think a flagrant for a nut punch is pretty reasonable compared to Stern ruining a series cause Amare and Diaw stepped on the court in reaction to Horry basically trying to injure Nash

[WarriorGM]

Pretty interesting to rehash that 2016 finals. For me, that finals ranks right up there with the 2007 Suns Spurs series as the most glaring examples of the NBA's extracurricular interference having an outsized impact on the outcome of a series. In both cases, the NBA's decisions seemed in part to be driven by a desire to ameliorate some past incident or mistake - in the 2007 Suns/Spurs, it was the fallout from the Malice at the Palace; and in the 2016 series, it was the backlash from not suspending Draymond when he should've been in game 4 of the OKC series.

Being up 3-2 with Draymond back is still a position Warriors should win if they're better (to say nothing of the game they could have won 3-1). Can't excuse losing a Game 7 at home

Haven't watched it again but please take note of Bogut's injury and give us your impressions of how that changed or didn't change the complexion of the series. Curry getting ejected in Game 6 also colors my view of league interference in the series, as does the officiating in Game 4 of the 2017 finals series.