2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

Moderators: Quotatious, Clyde Frazier, trex_8063, Doctor MJ, penbeast0, PaulieWal

User avatar
eminence
General Manager
Posts: 7,709
And1: 4,532
Joined: Mar 07, 2015
 

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3401 » by eminence » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:35 am

GSP wrote:
eminence wrote:In the less trolling section of my posting - How this Nuggets/Clippers series went has made me feel a lot better about Mitchell's 1st round series. I was worried there might be a bit of a fluke feeling to it, but with the Nuggets kinda holding back Kawhi and Murray having another big series I feel a lot better about our performance.


Gary Harris didnt play until the end of the series

he locked Mitchell up when he was on him specially game 7, forcing him to airballs the clutch steal at the end etc

no way Donovan goes off like that if Gary is healthy the whole series


I'm obviously not expecting Mitchell to be a 35/5/5 on 70% TS guy going forward.

There's still plenty of reasons to feel good about his play in that series and the Nuggets continuing to play well only reinforces that.
'17-'18 APBR Win Projections Champion (1st of 20)
'18-'19 5th of 18
'19-'20 2nd of 17 (For now?)
dreamshake
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,764
And1: 1,684
Joined: May 13, 2014
     

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3402 » by dreamshake » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:40 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
dreamshake wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
And who had the #1 SRS this season - and what rank SRS did they lose to?

SRS doesn't determine anything, you still need to look at context. Even within the context of Houston having a high SRS - that is because Westbrook played out of his mind.

Westbrook was injured and rusty, and didn't even play for most of the first round. Therefore, how SRS an accurate measure to say that "they are on the same level" - would Denver be on the same level as the other teams if they Jokic was injured and played awful?

So why are people bringing up SRS?


Well . . . historically SRS does correlate pretty closely with playoff results. There are obviously exceptions - but a year or 2 ago I looked at it over the last couple decades and was surprised how rare the exceptions were in terms of correctly predicting conference finalists and beyond. Your points are still valid and obviously I'm not suggesting SRS is a replacement for analysis - I just think it's at least justifiable to say they're in the same general tier. i.e. I would consider Houston closer to the Utah/Denver level than to the Portland level. (and yes, I realize they both lost in 5 to the same team)



Many things correlate closely with playoff results - your win/loss record certainly does as well.

Again, the fact that people are bringing up SRS - even though Russell Westbrook wasn't the same player is just a head scratcher. What exactly is the point of bringing up Houston has a similar SRS? I'm sorry, but Houston with essentially no Russell Westbrook is the same level as Utah and Denver? Break it down for me some more then.

I'm trying to imagine how Houston can win when Westbrook is guarded by Gary Haris, and I don't see much other than "they get lucky from 3" - which isn't really a good way to win a series.


I mean I agree that Houston had a lot of flaws - especially with Russ playing at the level he was in the playoffs and missing House. But Denver has some serious flaws too - there's a reason they were in a 3-1 hole twice in a row. I mean I guess we'll find out how far above Houston's level Denver is in the next round.
freethedevil
Head Coach
Posts: 6,186
And1: 2,836
Joined: Dec 09, 2018
         

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3403 » by freethedevil » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:41 am

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
Joey Wheeler wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:Kawhi killing his legacy.

He's been awful.


No need to overreact, he's had a rough game 7 but still a very good series in general. The expectations were just too high; the Clippers aren't really any better than the WC non-Lakers pack. This was always a series they could well lose.


They've blown 3 straight double digit leads.

The minimum expectation would be to not blow leads constantly.

This is kawhi's first playoffs withotu a 60 win team and he's much better defensivelt and as a playmaker.

Not sure how you see this and don't question the hype he's been getting over his last postseasons.
User avatar
MyUniBroDavis
Analyst
Posts: 3,152
And1: 1,335
Joined: Jan 14, 2013
   

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3404 » by MyUniBroDavis » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:42 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
SRS doesn't determine whos playoff matches, that isn't what it's used for - and SRS means even less this season since the season was split into two separate seasons essentially.

The Bucks had the best SRS this year and were destroyed, and had the best SRS last year for that matter. SRS just tells you if teams are good or not, it isn't predicitive of who will win a series.

The Rockets were not only an extremely gimmicky team, they also had their 2nd best player injured and unbelievably rusty - Westbrook played like absolute crap. There is nothing threatening about Houston, it's as ridiculous as people who said Houston would be a threat to LAL because of a "Bad match up".


I mean the idea of matchups was fair in the sense that the lakers didnt run 5 out alot, houstan were good at packing the paint which neither ad or bron score crazy well against, and we couldnt really stop them playing man to man.

Houstan shot 40%+ from three in three of 5 gMes which is stupid as hell

I dont think anyone thinks the nuggets are a better team than the clippers from this, and i dont see why the nuggets are better than houstan are, or more threatening


The idea was wrong though...

Why are the Nuggets not a better team than the Clippers? Let me guess, if the Clippers got by the Nuggets people would be hyped for LAC vs LAL - even with LAL as the favorites, because the Clippers are "clearly" the second best team in the league - right?

This is literally just made up stuff, the Clippers were never substantially better than the other teams in the league, they could have been beaten by a (healthy) Dallas (and Dallas would also destroy Portland, and probably beat Houston).

This kind of reminds me when people were totally oblivious that the 2015 Warriors were going to destroy the league or the 2011 Mavericks were contenders because it wasn't part of an established narrative. Too many people here are going off of name brand and not actually realizing that most of these teams are not separated by a lot. This is the most parity the NBA has seen in a very long time, and it was evident even during the RS>


If i recall they were on 60-70 when kawhi and george played

They lost to the nuggets because doc was outcoached, and because harrell was a stupid matchup against jokic, not to mention putting lou and harrell with jokic and murray meant you could go pick and roll and schmack them

I mean, zubac was a pretty strong positive in 5/7 games, harrell was a negative in 6/7 games. Zubac should be getting 36-40 minutes in a matchup like this, not 25-30.

This was by all means a ridiculous upset and a clippers choke job. Just because they lost doesnt mean theyre worse, theres a reason lakers are celebrating right now
oof
ShotCreator
Veteran
Posts: 2,743
And1: 1,908
Joined: May 18, 2014
Location: CF
     

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3405 » by ShotCreator » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:45 am

So I think this team needs to be viewed through the lense of the fact that their early RS defense translates to playoff series, and Jamal Murray is a...what Lillard level guy in the postseason?


But he really feels better than Lillard. Less of a liability on defense.

I mean Luka and Jokic + the athleticism to be a top 10 defense, is pretty close to LA, yeah?

How good is Jamal Murray playing in the postseason?

Prime Kobe? CP3?
Swinging for the fences.
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 17,115
And1: 12,708
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3406 » by HeartBreakKid » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:46 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
I mean the idea of matchups was fair in the sense that the lakers didnt run 5 out alot, houstan were good at packing the paint which neither ad or bron score crazy well against, and we couldnt really stop them playing man to man.

Houstan shot 40%+ from three in three of 5 gMes which is stupid as hell

I dont think anyone thinks the nuggets are a better team than the clippers from this, and i dont see why the nuggets are better than houstan are, or more threatening


The idea was wrong though...

Why are the Nuggets not a better team than the Clippers? Let me guess, if the Clippers got by the Nuggets people would be hyped for LAC vs LAL - even with LAL as the favorites, because the Clippers are "clearly" the second best team in the league - right?

This is literally just made up stuff, the Clippers were never substantially better than the other teams in the league, they could have been beaten by a (healthy) Dallas (and Dallas would also destroy Portland, and probably beat Houston).

This kind of reminds me when people were totally oblivious that the 2015 Warriors were going to destroy the league or the 2011 Mavericks were contenders because it wasn't part of an established narrative. Too many people here are going off of name brand and not actually realizing that most of these teams are not separated by a lot. This is the most parity the NBA has seen in a very long time, and it was evident even during the RS>


If i recall they were on 60-70 when kawhi and george played

They lost to the nuggets because doc was outcoached, and because harrell was a stupid matchup against jokic, not to mention putting lou and harrell with jokic and murray meant you could go pick and roll and schmack them

I mean, zubac was a pretty strong positive in 5/7 games, harrell was a negative in 6/7 games. Zubac should be getting 36-40 minutes in a matchup like this, not 25-30.

This was by all means a ridiculous upset and a clippers choke job. Just because they lost doesnt mean theyre worse, theres a reason lakers are celebrating right now


The games Denver won Zubac was in foul trouble if I can recall.

Even if we just chalk it up to those things - how does this mean that Denver is not better? You said that they lost because they're poorly coached, why would that be an exception to their play? If the Clippers were coached by Popovich then they would be a different team.


The Lakers are celebrating because the Clippers were supposed to be their championship rival, and they play in the same city. That isn't confirmation of anything, unless I am supposed to believe that Dudley is a great analyzer of teams. If anything some of them probably thought LAC was overrated.
User avatar
MyUniBroDavis
Analyst
Posts: 3,152
And1: 1,335
Joined: Jan 14, 2013
   

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3407 » by MyUniBroDavis » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:51 am

freethedevil wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
Joey Wheeler wrote:
No need to overreact, he's had a rough game 7 but still a very good series in general. The expectations were just too high; the Clippers aren't really any better than the WC non-Lakers pack. This was always a series they could well lose.


They've blown 3 straight double digit leads.

The minimum expectation would be to not blow leads constantly.

This is kawhi's first playoffs withotu a 60 win team and he's much better defensivelt and as a playmaker.

Not sure how you see this and don't question the hype he's been getting over his last postseasons.


I mean its not as if he was utterly horrible and exposed or anything like 18 harden or 19 giannis

He had 2 bad games and was pretty standard for 4 and great for 1. The clippers went 0 iq on offense at times and the team outside of kawhi were quite bad.

Kawhi isnt THE system like other stars are. Yes he is the main offensice superstar but the team is kind of a three headed dragon offensicely in that you have kawhi george and lou taking most possessions. The other two were dissappinting, either in their overall offense (lou) or their ability to create (george).

Yeah you can make arguments about kawhi needinf to take the reins a bit more but you cant dismiss his past 2 playoff runs which were lefitimately great because he had a mediocre series
oof
User avatar
MyUniBroDavis
Analyst
Posts: 3,152
And1: 1,335
Joined: Jan 14, 2013
   

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3408 » by MyUniBroDavis » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:58 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
The idea was wrong though...

Why are the Nuggets not a better team than the Clippers? Let me guess, if the Clippers got by the Nuggets people would be hyped for LAC vs LAL - even with LAL as the favorites, because the Clippers are "clearly" the second best team in the league - right?

This is literally just made up stuff, the Clippers were never substantially better than the other teams in the league, they could have been beaten by a (healthy) Dallas (and Dallas would also destroy Portland, and probably beat Houston).

This kind of reminds me when people were totally oblivious that the 2015 Warriors were going to destroy the league or the 2011 Mavericks were contenders because it wasn't part of an established narrative. Too many people here are going off of name brand and not actually realizing that most of these teams are not separated by a lot. This is the most parity the NBA has seen in a very long time, and it was evident even during the RS>


If i recall they were on 60-70 when kawhi and george played

They lost to the nuggets because doc was outcoached, and because harrell was a stupid matchup against jokic, not to mention putting lou and harrell with jokic and murray meant you could go pick and roll and schmack them

I mean, zubac was a pretty strong positive in 5/7 games, harrell was a negative in 6/7 games. Zubac should be getting 36-40 minutes in a matchup like this, not 25-30.

This was by all means a ridiculous upset and a clippers choke job. Just because they lost doesnt mean theyre worse, theres a reason lakers are celebrating right now


The games Denver won Zubac was in foul trouble if I can recall.

Even if we just chalk it up to those things - how does this mean that Denver is not better? You said that they lost because they're poorly coached, why would that be an exception to their play? If the Clippers were coached by Popovich then they would be a different team.


The Lakers are celebrating because the Clippers were supposed to be their championship rival, and they play in the same city. That isn't confirmation of anything, unless I am supposed to believe that Dudley is a great analyzer of teams. If anything some of them probably thought LAC was overrated.


Zubac only hit 5 fouls once (when he fouled out). Im literally sure the lakers would rather face the nuggets lol.

Yes, theyre poorly coached. I dont think that the mistakes made here would be as bad against LA, harrell would be alot better vs us than against the nuggets.

Ans Its still very suprising that they choked and threw away 3 double digit leads in a row. I doubt anyone

Im quite literally sure that most people would take the clippers if you repeat this series. In theast three games the nuggets either went off from three or the clippers bricked from three

They shot 44 and 48% from three, and this game shot 35% but at least 3 of those were flings at the end of the clock and a bunch were ridiculous murray heat checks

The clippers shot about what they normally fo, and went 9/35 from three today, and they were getting decent looks too
oof
Bidofo
Senior
Posts: 575
And1: 649
Joined: Sep 20, 2014
     

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3409 » by Bidofo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 am

The crazy thing is, the Nuggets didn’t particularly lock down the Clippers or anything. They were missing wide open [corner] shots. It makes the choke so much worse. PGs 3 off the backboard was just LOL
therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 24,243
And1: 10,242
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3410 » by therealbig3 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:06 am

I actually like all the teams in the conference finals right now lol. I like the Lakers because I'm a LeBron fan, Nuggets are just a super likable team with a ton of homegrown talent including the most unique superstar in the league, Celtics are super well-coached with a bunch of solid young players including a budding star in Tatum, and it's impossible not to like the Heat - perfect mix of veterans (Dragic/Butler) and youth (Bam/Herro/Robinson), they're not scared of the moment, and just all-around well-coached by Spo on both sides of the ball.

I really don't care who wins the title this year out of those teams, would be a great story regardless.
therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 24,243
And1: 10,242
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3411 » by therealbig3 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:10 am

I think the Lakers match up a lot better with the Nuggets than the Clippers do, namely because they actually have bigs that can make life difficult for Jokic (between AD and Howard). Murray is playing the best ball of his career, but the Lakers also have solid defenders to throw at him (Caruso, Green, Kuzma, LeBron). MPJ will be an x-factor, his rebounding on both sides of the ball and his scoring ability may be a problem with the Lakers focused on Jokic and Murray.

And on the other hand, Jokic also dominated Utah and he was facing Gobert in that series.
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 10,868
And1: 4,889
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3412 » by GSP » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:15 am

The way Miami beat Milwaukee and Denver beat Clips have to be 2 of the most shocking upsets Ive seen since watching basketball

and they happened within a week of each other
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 105,222
And1: 56,941
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Billy Crystals lap
 

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3413 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:28 am

Amazing mental toughness to come back from 3-1 twice. Murray and Joker are special
Neato wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone for being a neato
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 105,222
And1: 56,941
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Billy Crystals lap
 

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3414 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:32 am

GSP wrote:The way Miami beat Milwaukee and Denver beat Clips have to be 2 of the most shocking upsets Ive seen since watching basketball

and they happened within a week of each other



After game 5 I’m not too surprised tbh. Bet on Denver today. But coming into the playoffs and into the series I agree. Crazy times
Neato wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone for being a neato
Dr Positivity
RealGM
Posts: 48,680
And1: 11,639
Joined: Apr 29, 2009
       

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3415 » by Dr Positivity » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:01 am

I disliked the Reggie Jackson and Marcus Morris moves when they happened. It was clear the Clippers achilles heel was going to be not gelling as a team on and off the court and being too much individual players, and those guys are the opposite of what you want in that regard.

Start with Lou Williams trade. I once saw the Raptors go from playing like a team, to not playing like a team the next season, to playing like a team again the season after that mostly because they had Lou in the middle one. His game got better from that point, but considering he's due to decline anyways I would take my chances to see what happens without him in terms of culture and ball movement.

I know they had to do it to get Kawhi, but the George trade may be looked back on for a long time like Herschel Walker's. 5 1sts, 2 swaps, a prospect that was considered even last year to have all-star potential in SGA, and a very good starting wing in Gallo. Holy ****.
Woke is a secular religion
limbo
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,669
And1: 1,483
Joined: Jun 30, 2019
 

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3416 » by limbo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:58 am

Doc has to get the boot. When the whole entire team looks disjointed from top to bottom and can only win if the star players get hot shooting the ball, you simply aren't doing your job as a coach... Not to mention the lack of passion/effort in these players but all the cockiness in the world... They couldn't hang 90 points on the Nuggets defense in GAME 7... There is just no excuse for that.

This Clippers team clear #1 weakness is lacking in the playmaking department. I understand it's not easy to run a successful offense without a playmaking savant, but what the Clippers were doing goes beyond that. Absolutely appalling.

When you lack a playmaking savant, the onus is on the coach to implement a system that helps players share the ball and get good looks. Great coaches are able to so that, Doc, apparently not so much... With Boston, the offensive level of some of those teams were pretty pedestrian considering the talent level. And even then he relied heavily on Rondo to just dictate the offenese for him.

The Lob City era actually proves CP3 is one of the greatest offensive players of all-time. Dude carried a squad plagued by injuries, Doc's incompetent coaching and offensive black holes/relics to the #1 offense in the league while competing against LeBron/Love/Kyrie, the beginning of Golden State dynasty and some of the best offensive versions of the Spurs in the last 25 years...
The-Power
Head Coach
Posts: 6,169
And1: 5,330
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3417 » by The-Power » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:39 am

eminence wrote:In the less trolling section of my posting - How this Nuggets/Clippers series went has made me feel a lot better about Mitchell's 1st round series. I was worried there might be a bit of a fluke feeling to it, but with the Nuggets kinda holding back Kawhi and Murray having another big series I feel a lot better about our performance.

There is a huge difference in performance, though. Versus the Jazz, Murray posted 31/6 on 68% TS in 38 MPG. Versus the Clippers, Murray posted 23/6 on 56% TS in 40 MPG. Murray came through in the end and played well all things considered, but he absolutely torched the Jazz and merely played solid (in terms of statistics) against the Clippers.
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 105,222
And1: 56,941
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Billy Crystals lap
 

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3418 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:09 am

freethedevil wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
Joey Wheeler wrote:
No need to overreact, he's had a rough game 7 but still a very good series in general. The expectations were just too high; the Clippers aren't really any better than the WC non-Lakers pack. This was always a series they could well lose.


They've blown 3 straight double digit leads.

The minimum expectation would be to not blow leads constantly.

This is kawhi's first playoffs withotu a 60 win team and he's much better defensivelt and as a playmaker.

Not sure how you see this and don't question the hype he's been getting over his last postseasons.



KD was a better player than kawhi last year 8-)
Neato wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone for being a neato
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 105,222
And1: 56,941
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Billy Crystals lap
 

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3419 » by Dupp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:26 am

Murray is a stud. Dude had had so many big games /second half’s / final quarters when the team has had its back against the wall. Really impressive stuff.

Also I guess Harris is pretty important.
Neato wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize to everyone for being a neato
limbo
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,669
And1: 1,483
Joined: Jun 30, 2019
 

Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#3420 » by limbo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:30 am

Lots of people were saying the contract he got from Denver was absolutely horrible for a player like him.

Wonder where these men are right now. Certainly not on the General Boards they were so vibrantly mouthing off before.

Return to Player Comparisons