2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4001 » by Blackmill » Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:21 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:<snip>

I appreciate your analysis Blackmill.

What I was referring to was:

1. Jimmy always being the guy who made the heady play. Steals, drawing fouls, rebounds that were going out of bound, making a great quick decision when the Lakers had him at a disadvantage.

2. Jimmy looking fresher down the stretch on both ends of the court despite playing more than LeBron.

I'd acknowledge that these observations don't tell the whole story and are far from any kind of proof. But it's how it felt to me. If felt to me like LeBron was absolutely having to will himself every time he went for a bucket (which most often he was successful at), and Butler looked springy out there.

And of course as I say all of this, the context here is of course that LeBron is in his 17th season and he's been expended MORE energy this season than he probably has in a half decade (though you can point out that there was a gap before the Bubble that should in theory mitigate for this).

LeBron & AD look tired (with AD it's hopefully just because he's banged up) out there, and looked like they desperately wanted this all to be over last night.

Butler was certainly tired out there too, but it felt like he could still burst and he was as emotive as ever.


Ah, I might have misunderstood you. Yes, I think LeBron was expending more effort to score, and I believe I understand what you were seeing. Could LeBron hit another tough shot when he's exhausted, the Heat aren't switching, and he's getting swarmed in the paint? Or could the Lakers shooters hit an open three? Maybe not. Could Butler get to the line again if the Lakers switch Morris onto him to ISO with space? Most likely. Watching live there was a sense that the Heat had more control over the outcome of possessions. I agree with you on this if that's what you're saying. I just don't think this is incongruent with the Lakers giving themselves the better chance to win in the 4th.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4002 » by tone wone » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:02 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:If the Lakers win I will definitely be wondering about those Dragic and Bam injuries. I think the Lakers would have a weak halfcourt offense for a champion, maybe weakest since 04 or something. But they also have by far the best defensive roster, so...


Here's the thing I'll say though:

The story of these finals is that by living through Butler the Heat have found a different way to thrive on offense.

I do think a healthy Bam helps the Heat's defense, but I'm not sure their Bam-as-Bill-Walton offense is actually better than their current approach, and if Bam were healthy the whole series, they're probably still playing that way.

Also, don't want to in any way be dismissive of Dragic who I love, but Butler's crazy right now.

Yeah, with Dragic out they've turned into the 2018 Cavs with an above-average defense. Butler's giving them Lebron production in the exact way Lebron would. As a Lebron homer these last 3 games from Butler have been freaky to watch.

Watching him leverage MIA's shooters to calmly generate mismatches and get layups, free throws and open 3's for teammates despite LA knowing exactly what he wants to do has been almost disheartening. Is this what its like to go against Lebron in a playoff series?

Also, iits very noticeable how downright amateurish LA's offense looks next to Miami's. I said in the Lebron thread that if AD & Lebron 10% less awesome they'd be a bottom 10 offense. How can a team with 2 players this dynamic, who fit this well be this bad in the halfcourt? Its like watching an alltime great QB-WR combo being undermined by a bad online and playcalling.
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:I don’t think LeBron was as good a point guard as Mo Williams for the point guard play not counting the scoring threat. In other words in a non shooting Rondo like role Mo Williams would be better than LeBron.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4003 » by Blackmill » Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:19 am

tone wone wrote:Also, iits very noticeable how downright amateurish LA's offense looks next to Miami's. I said in the Lebron thread that if AD & Lebron 10% less awesome they'd be a bottom 10 offense. How can a team with 2 players this dynamic, who fit this well be this bad in the halfcourt? Its like watching an alltime great QB-WR combo being undermined by a bad online and playcalling.


I feel like LA is a testament to the importance of 3-point shooters. In G5 LA minus LeBron shot 27.5% from three and MIA minus Butler shot 43.3%. LA's shooters can't get more open than they were, so if there's anything in the process that can change for the better, presumably it leads to more free throws or shots at the rim. But getting better driving lanes usually starts with outside shooting. LA is in a tough spot with their offense. That's not to say there's nothing to be improved on. I think LA's offense could benefit from being less predictable. I suspect a few wrinkles in LA's main plays would add another point or two to the scoreboard.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4004 » by tone wone » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:36 pm

Blackmill wrote:
tone wone wrote:Also, iits very noticeable how downright amateurish LA's offense looks next to Miami's. I said in the Lebron thread that if AD & Lebron 10% less awesome they'd be a bottom 10 offense. How can a team with 2 players this dynamic, who fit this well be this bad in the halfcourt? Its like watching an alltime great QB-WR combo being undermined by a bad online and playcalling.


I feel like LA is a testament to the importance of 3-point shooters. In G5 LA minus LeBron shot 27.5% from three and MIA minus Butler shot 43.3%. LA's shooters can't get more open than they were, so if there's anything in the process that can change for the better, presumably it leads to more free throws or shots at the rim. But getting better driving lanes usually starts with outside shooting. LA is in a tough spot with their offense. That's not to say there's nothing to be improved on. I think LA's offense could benefit from being less predictable. I suspect a few wrinkles in LA's main plays would add another point or two to the scoreboard.

Read on Twitter
?p=v

LA used their hot shooting game in the 1st half of game 1. Transition buckets from great defense is really the only thing I can see them improving.
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:I don’t think LeBron was as good a point guard as Mo Williams for the point guard play not counting the scoring threat. In other words in a non shooting Rondo like role Mo Williams would be better than LeBron.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4005 » by Mos_Heat » Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:24 pm

Blackmill wrote:
tone wone wrote:Also, iits very noticeable how downright amateurish LA's offense looks next to Miami's. I said in the Lebron thread that if AD & Lebron 10% less awesome they'd be a bottom 10 offense. How can a team with 2 players this dynamic, who fit this well be this bad in the halfcourt? Its like watching an alltime great QB-WR combo being undermined by a bad online and playcalling.


I feel like LA is a testament to the importance of 3-point shooters. In G5 LA minus LeBron shot 27.5% from three and MIA minus Butler shot 43.3%. LA's shooters can't get more open than they were, so if there's anything in the process that can change for the better, presumably it leads to more free throws or shots at the rim. But getting better driving lanes usually starts with outside shooting. LA is in a tough spot with their offense. That's not to say there's nothing to be improved on. I think LA's offense could benefit from being less predictable. I suspect a few wrinkles in LA's main plays would add another point or two to the scoreboard.

For a Finals team, they have the worst shooting personel since 2011 Heat
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4006 » by GSP » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:18 pm

This will be the first game 6 of many players' careers

Davis
Caruso
Kuzma
Herro
Kcp
Robinson
Bam
Nunn
Jones Jr and Tucker if they play too
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4007 » by yoyoboy » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:49 am

Man what a defensive performance by LA in that half! It's so satisfying to see something like this nowadays.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4008 » by GSP » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:11 am

Tyler Herro has had one of the worst finals performance ive ever seen

its worse than the Harden series from 2012
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4009 » by Mos_Heat » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:53 am

Hats off to this Heat team. Great run
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4010 » by Mos_Heat » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:54 am

GSP wrote:Tyler Herro has had one of the worst finals performance ive ever seen

its worse than the Harden series from 2012

Yeah, he crushed hard
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4011 » by kayess » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:56 am

Mos_Heat wrote:Hats off to this Heat team. Great run


Where does it rank in your favorite Heat years?
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4012 » by Mos_Heat » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:08 am

kayess wrote:
Mos_Heat wrote:Hats off to this Heat team. Great run


Where does it rank in your favorite Heat years?

3rd.

Nothing tops 06 and 12.

It was a weird season tho, because this team became drastically different after the Winslow trade
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4013 » by Dupp » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:45 am

The Joy from AD was great. What a dude
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4014 » by Statlanta » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:52 am

As a Magic fan this NBA Final was disgusting
watching Rondo succeed in any capacity
Heavy Kobe/LeBron narrative
Heat success/Well wishes for the Heat's upcoming season
Vogel, Dwight redemption arc
East #1 Draft Picks: Fultz, Banchero, Wiggins, Cuninigham
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4015 » by 70sFan » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:50 am

The league average efficiency in playoffs was 57.4 TS%. What can we make out of it? Did the bubble really helped players? Is it because of long break between RS and playoffs?

I don't know what to think about it, but it's insane number.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4016 » by Dupp » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:15 am

70sFan wrote:The league average efficiency in playoffs was 57.4 TS%. What can we make out of it? Did the bubble really helped players? Is it because of long break between RS and playoffs?

I don't know what to think about it, but it's insane number.



Travel? Role players and young players usually play a lot worse on the road and that wasn’t a factor here. I’m sure there are many reasons but they were my first thoughts.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4017 » by 70sFan » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:43 am

Dupp wrote:
70sFan wrote:The league average efficiency in playoffs was 57.4 TS%. What can we make out of it? Did the bubble really helped players? Is it because of long break between RS and playoffs?

I don't know what to think about it, but it's insane number.



Travel? Role players and young players usually play a lot worse on the road and that wasn’t a factor here. I’m sure there are many reasons but they were my first thoughts.

I also thought about it, playing all games in one place must be huge factor for some players.

It's not about young players or roleplayers only though - even stars and superstars were much more efficient in the bubble than usually outside of few underperformances.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4018 » by Homer38 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:12 am

GSP wrote:Tyler Herro has had one of the worst finals performance ive ever seen

its worse than the Harden series from 2012



I give Herro a pass on that too because he was a rookie
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4019 » by Dupp » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:20 am

Dragic was a massive loss. Would have made things a lot tougher for LAs defense.
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Re: 2019-20 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#4020 » by limbo » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:29 am

70sFan wrote:The league average efficiency in playoffs was 57.4 TS%. What can we make out of it? Did the bubble really helped players? Is it because of long break between RS and playoffs?

I don't know what to think about it, but it's insane number.


No mention of your boys Dwight and McGee playing a combined total of 1 minute in a Game 6 in the NBA Finals and their team having a +30 point lead at half time?

#BigManLeague

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