The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread

Moderators: Quotatious, Clyde Frazier, trex_8063, Doctor MJ, penbeast0, PaulieWal

User avatar
Heej
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,443
And1: 3,950
Joined: Jan 14, 2011

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#381 » by Heej » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:52 pm

At which point do we just accept that Kawhi is not built for the 16 game grind anymore. Let's not forget that last year his knee started degenerating by the end of the second round and it kinda looked to be doing the same here. He's probably never gonna be able to make it all the way without a stacked supporting cast like the Raptors last year
SWAGTIME LAKERS
O_6
Pro Prospect
Posts: 868
And1: 1,056
Joined: Aug 25, 2010

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#382 » by O_6 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:41 pm

Heej wrote:At which point do we just accept that Kawhi is not built for the 16 game grind anymore. Let's not forget that last year his knee started degenerating by the end of the second round and it kinda looked to be doing the same here. He's probably never gonna be able to make it all the way without a stacked supporting cast like the Raptors last year


He looked much better physically in the 2020 regular season than the 2019 regular season but this was something I was really worried about with him. As someone who was rooting for LeBron this year, I thought it was very important that the Clippers get the 2nd/3rd seed instead of the 4th seed. Forcing Kawhi to play one more round before meeting up in a series is something I felt was actually important. I thought the Lakers' chances in a series vs. the Clippers would increase by a fair amount if they met up in the WCF as opposed to the 2nd round. And that all stems from seeing Kawhi slow down in the playoffs last year.

It's crazy to think about since there are no back-to-backs but it definitely looked like he wasn't at his best physically last night. Just lethargic on defense as mentioned by others and didn't look very explosive last night on offense either.
xb3at band1tx
Junior
Posts: 339
And1: 364
Joined: Sep 29, 2012

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#383 » by xb3at band1tx » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:48 pm

He looked like a shell of himself in that last game.

Relying on PG13 to help carry the weight...damn.
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 10,868
And1: 4,889
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#384 » by GSP » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 am

Heej wrote:At which point do we just accept that Kawhi is not built for the 16 game grind anymore. Let's not forget that last year his knee started degenerating by the end of the second round and it kinda looked to be doing the same here. He's probably never gonna be able to make it all the way without a stacked supporting cast like the Raptors last year


And this was an outlier situation where he got months of time to rest from corona/lockdown

This was the Clips chance. Its all downhill from here and I wouldnt be surprised if Kawhi is a shell of himself within 2 seasons
JordansBulls
RealGM
Posts: 59,001
And1: 4,507
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: HCA (Homecourt Advantage)

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#385 » by JordansBulls » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:48 am

xb3at band1tx wrote:He looked like a shell of himself in that last game.

Relying on PG13 to help carry the weight...damn.

If guys were calling to get out of the game because of fatigue then it shows they didn't keep themselves in shape once the season was suspended. The Nuggets had played more games but they weren't fatigued. It might be one reason the Clippers were up for walking out of the bubble that night they knew they couldn't last the full time because they weren't all in shape.
Image
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
JordansBulls
RealGM
Posts: 59,001
And1: 4,507
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: HCA (Homecourt Advantage)

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#386 » by JordansBulls » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:51 am

GSP wrote:
Heej wrote:At which point do we just accept that Kawhi is not built for the 16 game grind anymore. Let's not forget that last year his knee started degenerating by the end of the second round and it kinda looked to be doing the same here. He's probably never gonna be able to make it all the way without a stacked supporting cast like the Raptors last year


And this was an outlier situation where he got months of time to rest from corona/lockdown

This was the Clips chance. Its all downhill from here and I wouldn't be surprised if Kawhi is a shell of himself within 2 seasons

I think they only have one more year. Problem is now you got Golden State back, then Denver gets better, then Brooklyn gets KD and Kyrie, Utah gets better as well as Dallas.
Next year they would have to play to get the top spot.
Image
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
Joey Wheeler
Starter
Posts: 2,293
And1: 1,299
Joined: May 12, 2017

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#387 » by Joey Wheeler » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:04 am

From a winning perspective, it was a big mistake to leave the Raptors. He had a team there that could contend for years and he'd get the bulk of the credit as people really underestimate Lowry, who was the real engine of that team (Kawhi was the best player by far, but Lowry is the leader and primary playmaker).

That said, for this year alone maybe it's better; if he had stayed in Toronto, he almost certainly loses in the Finals to the Lakers and that would be a bigger blow to his narrative/legacy in the mainstream media than losing this series to the Nuggets tbh.
User avatar
DonaldSanders
Pro Prospect
Posts: 849
And1: 673
Joined: Jan 22, 2012
     

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#388 » by DonaldSanders » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:15 am

inDe_eD wrote:
poopdamoop wrote:
inDe_eD wrote:
Kawhi has got to be your favorite player since Jordan, yea?


He's good enough to potentially keep LeBron from winning more rings, but not good enough to surpass MJ himself. It's the perfect combination


It's almost cliche at this point, but he really does seem like 96-98 Jordan. I can see a lot of Jordan fans gravitating to him for that alone.



:o :o :o
User avatar
GSP
RealGM
Posts: 10,868
And1: 4,889
Joined: Dec 12, 2011
     

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#389 » by GSP » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:26 am

DonaldSanders wrote:
inDe_eD wrote:
poopdamoop wrote:
He's good enough to potentially keep LeBron from winning more rings, but not good enough to surpass MJ himself. It's the perfect combination


It's almost cliche at this point, but he really does seem like 96-98 Jordan. I can see a lot of Jordan fans gravitating to him for that alone.



:o :o :o


There were alot of forced Mj comps TBH

Even the Mj running on fumes in 98 without Pippen for half the season and more unreliable than ever in the playoff run is still a clearly better player than any version of Kawhi

Image
User avatar
DonaldSanders
Pro Prospect
Posts: 849
And1: 673
Joined: Jan 22, 2012
     

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#390 » by DonaldSanders » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:52 am

GSP wrote:
DonaldSanders wrote:
inDe_eD wrote:
It's almost cliche at this point, but he really does seem like 96-98 Jordan. I can see a lot of Jordan fans gravitating to him for that alone.



:o :o :o


There were alot of forced Mj comps TBH

Even the Mj running on fumes in 98 without Pippen for half the season and more unreliable than ever in the playoff run is still a clearly better player than any version of Kawhi




Yeah these were the types of takes driving me insane about Kawhi. I knew I'd have to just wait, but it all sounds even crazier in retrospect.
User avatar
XTC
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,793
And1: 2,121
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
 

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#391 » by XTC » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:06 am

I honestly noticed it last season. Kawhi gets worst and worst the deeper our team went. He peaked in the Philly series, and he had great spurts vs Milwaukee but he looked noticeably less athletic game after game starting in the conference finals. Dude was hobbled in the warriors series, and he couldn’t even walk properly after winning the championship.

Same thing held true this season. The longer a series goes on, the worst he looks out there. Kawhi in game 7 vs the Nuggets looked fried. His athleticism was shot, and he settled for jumpers.

While load management is going to pro long Kawhis career, it also doesn’t allow him to condition properly. I wonder how long Kawhi can really keep this up. His degenerative issue is a lot more serious than people believe it is. How Kawhi looks next season will be interesting, because he clearly took a step back from the 2019 season IMO. Kawhi in 2019 had a switch where he could turn it up and he was the best player in basketball. That extra gear was missing this year.





Same game, same player, different year. Both game 7’s in the semi finals. It doesn’t even look like the same player anymore.
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 17,115
And1: 12,708
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#392 » by HeartBreakKid » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:23 am

I think you guys are overthinking it and kind of making stories out of little information.

I don't think his knee came into play at all. I think he had a bad game...also, I thought Denver did a good job adapting to Kawhi Leonard as the series went on.

If anything the bubble break would be evidence against his knee being a major reason why he plays poorly because it would have gave him fresher legs than if he had played a whole season (or what ever is the equivalent for him).
dreamshake
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,764
And1: 1,684
Joined: May 13, 2014
     

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#393 » by dreamshake » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:35 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:I think you guys are overthinking it and kind of making stories out of little information.

I don't think his knee came into play at all. I think he had a bad game...also, I thought Denver did a good job adapting to Kawhi Leonard as the series went on.

If anything the bubble break would be evidence against his knee being a major reason why he plays poorly because it would have gave him fresher legs than if he had played a whole season (or what ever is the equivalent for him).


I don't know, maybe its not injury, but I rewatched game 7 and his defensive effort was really, really poor. These are just a couple clips but there's a lot more like them. Completely died on screens over and over

Read on Twitter
JordansBulls
RealGM
Posts: 59,001
And1: 4,507
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: HCA (Homecourt Advantage)

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#394 » by JordansBulls » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:58 pm

dreamshake wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I think you guys are overthinking it and kind of making stories out of little information.

I don't think his knee came into play at all. I think he had a bad game...also, I thought Denver did a good job adapting to Kawhi Leonard as the series went on.

If anything the bubble break would be evidence against his knee being a major reason why he plays poorly because it would have gave him fresher legs than if he had played a whole season (or what ever is the equivalent for him).


I don't know, maybe its not injury, but I rewatched game 7 and his defensive effort was really, really poor. These are just a couple clips but there's a lot more like them. Completely died on screens over and over

Read on Twitter


Honestly they probably just weren't in great shape to be honest. Probably why they couldn't hold on to leads nor gave much effort defensively.
Image
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
User avatar
PaulieWal
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 12,733
And1: 14,268
Joined: Aug 28, 2013

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#395 » by PaulieWal » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:04 pm

JordansBulls wrote:
Honestly they probably just weren't in great shape to be honest. Probably why they couldn't hold on to leads nor gave much effort defensively.


That's a pretty pathetic excuse if true and for a guy like KL all we have heard is that more rest is good and now you are telling me even after a 4 month break he wasn't in great shape. Come on.
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
JordansBulls
RealGM
Posts: 59,001
And1: 4,507
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: HCA (Homecourt Advantage)

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#396 » by JordansBulls » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:15 pm

PaulieWal wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
Honestly they probably just weren't in great shape to be honest. Probably why they couldn't hold on to leads nor gave much effort defensively.


That's a pretty pathetic excuse if true and for a guy like KL all we have heard is that more rest is good and now you are telling me even after a 4 month break he wasn't in great shape. Come on.


Maybe so but those guys Montrell and Lou were out of the bubble for a while and probably weren't practicing. Also there was reports that guys were asking to come out of the game due to fatigue. That to me says they weren't in shape. Maybe some were, most may not have been.
Image
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
User avatar
Baski
Analyst
Posts: 3,447
And1: 2,712
Joined: Feb 09, 2017
   

Re: The 2019-20 Kawhi Leonard Thread 

Post#397 » by Baski » Yesterday 7:40 pm

dreamshake wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I think you guys are overthinking it and kind of making stories out of little information.

I don't think his knee came into play at all. I think he had a bad game...also, I thought Denver did a good job adapting to Kawhi Leonard as the series went on.

If anything the bubble break would be evidence against his knee being a major reason why he plays poorly because it would have gave him fresher legs than if he had played a whole season (or what ever is the equivalent for him).


I don't know, maybe its not injury, but I rewatched game 7 and his defensive effort was really, really poor. These are just a couple clips but there's a lot more like them. Completely died on screens over and over

Read on Twitter

I gotta ask. Where is the line between injury, coasting and bad game for Kawhi? We've seen elite defenders play bad defense and have terrible sequences, we've seen elite offensive players have equally terrible sequences. It may very well be injury but the frequency with which it gets brought up, especially under the best circumstances for him, makes evaluation very difficult to say the least.
Hilarious NBA player Nicknames:
1. Nicholas Kaboom
2. Covid Kawhi
3. Glass
4. LeBaby
5. Zaza Pacheapshot
6. Wayoff/Backboard/Panic P, Covid 13 :lol:
7. Rapestaps Rapezingis
8. Yawnnis Icantshootthough
9. Tim Hardtotradeaway
10. Vucci-Mane :lol:

Return to Player Comparisons