RealGM All-Time Franchise Ranking - #8

[trex_8063]

1. Minneapolis/Los Angeles Lakers
2. Boston Celtics
3. Dallas Chaparrals, San Antonio Spurs
4. Chicago Bulls
5. Syracuse Nationals/Philadelphia 76ers
6. Philly/SF/Golden State Warriors
7. Miami Heat

.

[Odinn21]

Rockets; 52 completed seasons, .529 win rate, 33 playoffs appearances (.635), .494 win rate in playoffs (153-157), 9.4 games per playoffs, 4 NBA Finals, 2 NBA Championships
Pistons; 71 completed seasons, .486 win rate, 42 playoffs appearances (.592), .514 win rate in playoffs (189-179), 8.8 games per playoffs, 7 NBA Finals, 3 NBA Championships
Knicks; 73 completed seasons, .485 win rate, 42 playoffs appearances (.575), .500 win rate in playoffs (186-186), 8.9 games per playoff, 8 NBA Finals, 2 NBA Championships
Thunder; 52 completed seasons, .541 win rate, 31 playoffs appearances (.596), .497 win rate in playoffs (161-163), 10.5 games per playoff, 4 NBA Finals, 1 NBA Championship

For me, it's between Rockets and Pistons. Going with the Detroit team.

Voting for the Pistons franchise.

[ardee]

I think this is the Rockets.

They were basically never irrelevant for long stretches other than the first decade of their existence.

Moses brought them to relevance, made the Finals in '81, albeit in a flukey way (3 game series, wtf?). He got traded, they retooled around the Twin Towers, interrupted a Lakers dynasty and made their second Finals in 6 years.

90s were obviously a great decade, two titles in a loaded league during the middle of the decade. Continued contending through the end of the decade by adding Chuck and later Scottie.

Small lull until they drafted Yao; him and TMac kept them in the upper half of the WC standings through the end of the decade. Despite losing both to injury, they never dipped below .500, got Harden, and the rest is history.

The '18 Rockets are probably the second best non champion of all time. CP's injury was the unluckiest of breaks.

They basically have had superstar cores that kept them from mid level Playoff teams to championship level for the majority of the last 3 decades outside of a few poor transition years.

The Knicks have too long a history of ineptitude. They obviously had their two titles from the same core as well but I don't think any of their other cores, including Ewing's teams, were as serious contenders as the Harden Rockets.

The Sonics/Thunder are the other option. Their one title was in much much weaker competition than the Rockets' two. They had an amazing stretch in the 90s with some very high SRS teams but only produced one Finals, missed some golden opportunities with first round losses in '94 and '95. Comparable to the Harden Rockets IMO. The Thunder era with KD/Russ is better than any non championship Houston team but the Rockets titles in the competition they won them in seal it for me.

Seattle will be my next vote for sure.



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[NW BBALL]

Ewing’s Knicks were absolutely a legitimate contender. 60+ wins in ‘93 and a ECF series, Finals appearances in ‘94 and ‘99. They came within a breath of winning the ‘94 title, a win that would have completely changed the narrative of Ewing’s career. The ‘90s Knicks were maybe Jordan’s greatest nemesis during his title years.

It is the period just after Ewing that the Knicks slipped into nearly two decades of irrelevance.

[Dr Positivity]

Vote Detroit Pistons

3 titles, most of remaining teams (89, 90, 04)
7 finals (55, 56, 88, 89, 90, 04, 05), 3 of their finals losses are in Game 7 - by 1 point in 55, by 3 points in Game 7 (and famous 1 pt loss in Game 6), and by 8 points in 2005 (they were leading late in 3rd quarter in this, they had chance to win). They are tied for the second most finals losses with 4, however the leader in the Knicks lost in 51, 52, and 53, which I value less than the Pistons making two finals after the shot clock in 55 and 56. They are tied for the most post shot clock finals losses with Cleveland with 4.

Outside of Isiah and Billups eras they weren't that great, but had a few stars and moderate success with Hill and Lanier

The Rockets have less success (2 titles/2 finals) and 94 and 95 isn't the strongest titles in my opinion. I think post 2000 Pistons are better as they are less consistent but have better peak (title, finals, conference finals streak), while before 2000s or before Morey era Rockets weren't really a better franchise than the Pistons.

Knicks have a great peak, but Dolan era has been a valley. Their accomplishment is similar but haven't proven themselves in modern era.

[ardee]

Vote Detroit Pistons

3 titles, most of remaining teams (89, 90, 04)
7 finals (55, 56, 88, 89, 90, 04, 05), 3 of their finals losses are in Game 7 - by 1 point in 55, by 3 points in Game 7 (and famous 1 pt loss in Game 6), and by 8 points in 2005 (they were leading late in 3rd quarter in this, they had chance to win). They are tied for the second most finals losses with 4, however the leader in the Knicks lost in 51, 52, and 53, which I value less than the Pistons making two finals after the shot clock in 55 and 56. They are tied for the most post shot clock finals losses with Cleveland with 4.

Outside of Isiah and Billups eras they weren't that great, but had a few stars and moderate success with Hill and Lanier

The Rockets have less success (2 titles/2 finals) and 94 and 95 isn't the strongest titles in my opinion. I think post 2000 Pistons are better as they are less consistent but have better peak (title, finals, conference finals streak), while before 2000s or before Morey era Rockets weren't really a better franchise than the Pistons.

Knicks have a great peak, but Dolan era has been a valley. Their accomplishment is similar but haven't proven themselves in modern era.

How are the Pistons a better franchise than the Rockets pre Morey? From 1980-1999, the Rockets won 2 titles and made 2 other Finals. Made the Playoffs 17/20 times. The Pistons were 2-1 in the Finals and made the Playoffs 18/20 times.

The other issue is talent. The Rockets have had Moses, Hakeem, Yao, McGrady, Harden, Howard, CP3 and Westbrook all play for them in or near their primes. The Pistons can't come close to matching that.

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[Dr Positivity]

Vote Detroit Pistons

3 titles, most of remaining teams (89, 90, 04)
7 finals (55, 56, 88, 89, 90, 04, 05), 3 of their finals losses are in Game 7 - by 1 point in 55, by 3 points in Game 7 (and famous 1 pt loss in Game 6), and by 8 points in 2005 (they were leading late in 3rd quarter in this, they had chance to win). They are tied for the second most finals losses with 4, however the leader in the Knicks lost in 51, 52, and 53, which I value less than the Pistons making two finals after the shot clock in 55 and 56. They are tied for the most post shot clock finals losses with Cleveland with 4.

Outside of Isiah and Billups eras they weren't that great, but had a few stars and moderate success with Hill and Lanier

The Rockets have less success (2 titles/2 finals) and 94 and 95 isn't the strongest titles in my opinion. I think post 2000 Pistons are better as they are less consistent but have better peak (title, finals, conference finals streak), while before 2000s or before Morey era Rockets weren't really a better franchise than the Pistons.

Knicks have a great peak, but Dolan era has been a valley. Their accomplishment is similar but haven't proven themselves in modern era.

How are the Pistons a better franchise than the Rockets pre Morey? From 1980-1999, the Rockets won 2 titles and made 2 other Finals. Made the Playoffs 17/20 times. The Pistons were 2-1 in the Finals and made the Playoffs 18/20 times.

The other issue is talent. The Rockets have had Moses, Hakeem, Yao, McGrady, Harden, Howard, CP3 and Westbrook all play for them in or near their primes. The Pistons can't come close to matching that.

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I think they were close to the same pre 2000, but I value Pistons after 2000 more

[penbeast0]

Vote Detroit Pistons

3 titles, most of remaining teams (89, 90, 04)
7 finals (55, 56, 88, 89, 90, 04, 05), 3 of their finals losses are in Game 7 - by 1 point in 55, by 3 points in Game 7 (and famous 1 pt loss in Game 6), and by 8 points in 2005 (they were leading late in 3rd quarter in this, they had chance to win). They are tied for the second most finals losses with 4, however the leader in the Knicks lost in 51, 52, and 53, which I value less than the Pistons making two finals after the shot clock in 55 and 56. They are tied for the most post shot clock finals losses with Cleveland with 4.

Outside of Isiah and Billups eras they weren't that great, but had a few stars and moderate success with Hill and Lanier

The Rockets have less success (2 titles/2 finals) and 94 and 95 isn't the strongest titles in my opinion. I think post 2000 Pistons are better as they are less consistent but have better peak (title, finals, conference finals streak), while before 2000s or before Morey era Rockets weren't really a better franchise than the Pistons.

Knicks have a great peak, but Dolan era has been a valley. Their accomplishment is similar but haven't proven themselves in modern era.

Actually, the Pacers have 3 rings too, albeit in the ABA where they were the most consistent team over the history of that league. Since then, the main star has been Reggie Miller so I'm not voting for them here, but the ABA counts toward official NBA statistics.

No one really leaps out at me here. Pistons seem to be the favorites but Ardee makes a good argument for Houston and, as he said, they have always been pretty interesting. Since my criteria is who would I most like to have been a fan of, I will also throw a vote for the Houston Rockets.

[trex_8063]

Leaning Pistons. I'll do a quick comp with the Rockets, since they appear to be the biggest competition.....

Pistons have been around 71 seasons, the Rockets 52.

rs Win%
Rockets - .528
Pistons - .487

% of Seasons making the Playoffs
Rockets - .635
Pistons - .592

% of Seasons in the Conf/Div Finals
Rockets - .154
Pistons - .239 (*in raw terms Pistons have more than double the # of CF appearances)

% of Seasons in the Finals
Rockets - .077
Pistons - .099

% of Seasons as Champions
Rockets - .038
Pistons - .042


Yeah, still leaning Pistons here. The somewhat better rs success (and getting into playoffs) for the Rockets doesn't offset the larger disparity in deep playoff runs (especially noting that these proportions are over a span of nearly two additional decades for the Pistons).

Vote: Pistons

[trex_8063]

I think this is the Rockets.

They were basically never irrelevant for long stretches other than the first decade of their existence.

Moses brought them to relevance, made the Finals in '81, albeit in a flukey way (3 game series, wtf?). He got traded, they retooled around the Twin Towers, interrupted a Lakers dynasty and made their second Finals in 6 years.

90s were obviously a great decade, two titles in a loaded league during the middle of the decade. Continued contending through the end of the decade by adding Chuck and later Scottie.

Small lull until they drafted Yao; him and TMac kept them in the upper half of the WC standings through the end of the decade. Despite losing both to injury, they never dipped below .500, got Harden, and the rest is history.

The '18 Rockets are probably the second best non champion of all time. CP's injury was the unluckiest of breaks.

They basically have had superstar cores that kept them from mid level Playoff teams to championship level for the majority of the last 3 decades outside of a few poor transition years.

The Knicks have too long a history of ineptitude. They obviously had their two titles from the same core as well but I don't think any of their other cores, including Ewing's teams, were as serious contenders as the Harden Rockets.

The Sonics/Thunder are the other option. Their one title was in much much weaker competition than the Rockets' two. They had an amazing stretch in the 90s with some very high SRS teams but only produced one Finals, missed some golden opportunities with first round losses in '94 and '95. Comparable to the Harden Rockets IMO. The Thunder era with KD/Russ is better than any non championship Houston team but the Rockets titles in the competition they won them in seal it for me.

Seattle will be my next vote for sure.



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Rockets; 52 completed seasons, .529 win rate, 33 playoffs appearances (.635), .494 win rate in playoffs (153-157), 9.4 games per playoffs, 4 NBA Finals, 2 NBA Championships
Pistons; 71 completed seasons, .486 win rate, 42 playoffs appearances (.592), .514 win rate in playoffs (189-179), 8.8 games per playoffs, 7 NBA Finals, 3 NBA Championships
Knicks; 73 completed seasons, .485 win rate, 42 playoffs appearances (.575), .500 win rate in playoffs (186-186), 8.9 games per playoff, 8 NBA Finals, 2 NBA Championships
Thunder; 52 completed seasons, .541 win rate, 31 playoffs appearances (.596), .497 win rate in playoffs (161-163), 10.5 games per playoff, 4 NBA Finals, 1 NBA Championship

For me, it's between Rockets and Pistons. Going with the Detroit team.

fwiw, in consideration of the people doing the vote tally, it would be appreciated if you state your pick very clearly (e.g. "Vote: XXX"), preferably as a line all by itself, and also perhaps bold it. This way the project organizer isn't forced to read full posts if he doesn't want to, just to find the pick that is stated without bolding inside a block of text.

[trex_8063]

Poor turnout, but the vote is:
Pistons - 3
Rockets - 2

Been open >48 hours now. Calling it, will get the next up soon.

[Cavsfansince84]

I'd vote Pistons if anyone is allowed to vote in this thread. I don't think teams should be penalized much for having been around for quite a while either.