PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

[MisterHibachi]

Black lives do matter, so why aren't people protesting the fact that blacks kill more blacks than whites do?

Big difference between crime and state sanctioned violence. There are laws in place to serve justice in the former case, but state violence is a breach of the rule of law and a crime against lawful society itself.

[No-more-rings]

So the idea of a protest is generally to get people in power to look at changing some behavior correct? How exactly is a protest against 'crime' supposed to influence the thinking of an everyday criminal?

What protests? A lot of them are devolving into rioting, looting, burning business etc. Almost certainly some of the businesses are black owned. That hurts black people more than it helps anyone.

You asked:

"Black lives do matter, so why aren't people protesting the fact that blacks kill more blacks than whites do?"

I'm asking how that would work? Seems a bit of a fools errand to me.

A "fools errand" to me is burning and looting businesses thinking that's going to bring about change. Or destroying vehicles, or attempting to drag people out of their cars and beat them to death. No, it's dividing the country up more than ever, and it's causing more harm than a random police shooting ever could.

[No-more-rings]

Black lives do matter, so why aren't people protesting the fact that blacks kill more blacks than whites do?

Big difference between crime and state sanctioned violence. There are laws in place to serve justice in the former case, but state violence is a breach of the rule of law and a crime against lawful society itself.

Well yeah there's a difference, but it doesn't change the fact that even black neighborhoods would be in much more danger without police than with them. You're getting an up close look at what happens when police take a hands off approach in some of these big cities.

[HeartBreakKid]

There's obviously police racism and police brutality out there, but at some point we can't keep acting like criminals can do whatever they want without consequence.

Black lives do matter, so why aren't people protesting the fact that blacks kill more blacks than whites do?

If police racism and police brutality exist - why are you adverse to protesting it?

All Lives Matter is just a contrarian movement to Black Lives Matter, it isn't actually protesting for the safety of well beings of all humans or any humans - the only thing All Lives Matter have ever protested was backing up police officers. That is ALM's only function, it only existed after Black Lives Matter became a slogan - to say that people who are pro All Lives Matter literally mean that they are for the advocacy of equality among humans is the same thing to say that the Democratic Republic of Korea is literally democratic.


As for your last sentence - protest....to whom? Also, a strange thing people who are All Lives Matter/Blue Lives Matter seem to do is suggest that police and blacks are the same thing - like both are ethnic groups. That isn't even breaking down the why blacks kill other blacks - which would just link back to systematic racism anyway, which ALM would merely be contrarian to that stance anyway. No matter how many layers you peel back you will just find that ethnic groups are not treated equally in USA.

Police is something that people can directly control because they are public servants. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense to use political power to change their means of policing - as that is their function to society. The argument of "why don't we protest the drug dealers who murder other drug dealers" doesn't make sense - or if it does make sense, why don't you do that??

[No-more-rings]

I'm going to take a step off of this thread for a while, I'm not particularly interested in getting into it with people over controversial subjects like this. I just don't need the stress of it right now.

[No-more-rings]

If police racism and police brutality exist - why are you adverse to protesting it? All Lives Matter is just a contrarian movement to Black Lives Matter, it isn't actually protesting for the safety of well beings of all humans or any humans - the only thing All Lives Matter have ever protested was backing up police officers.

I'm not adverse to protesting it, i'm adverse to rioting, looting, chaos and destroying the property of innocent people.

Are you ok with that, or are you one that pretends it's not happening? I'm curious, because there's plenty of whites joining in on it and they should be condemned all the same.

As for your last sentence - protest....to whom? Also, a strange thing people who are All Lives Matter/Blue Lives Matter seem to do is suggest that police and blacks are the same thing - like both are ethnic groups. That isn't even breaking down the why blacks kill other blacks - which would just link back to systematic racism anyway, which ALM would merely be contrarian to that stance anyway. No matter how many layers you peel back you will just find that ethnic groups are not treated equally in USA.

The point is people can't be silent when there's a mass shooting where a black guy kills 3 other blacks, and just throw their hands up and say "eh it's tragic but life goes on", and then when a criminal resists arrest, assaults police, then gets shot, and the reaction is 10 times stronger. It makes no sense at all.

It's about the way these instances are portrayed, "BLM" trys to pass criminals off as innocent law abiding citizens. It's a big part of the pushback against them.

Police is something that people can directly control because they are public servants. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense to use political power to change their means of policing - as that is their function to society. The argument of "why don't we protest the drug dealers who murder other drug dealers" doesn't make sense - or if it does make sense, why don't you do that??

See that's the thing though, for the extreme groups they want little police or no police at all. There's no question that would make everyone worse off, including blacks.

You asking me why I'm not protesting that, isn't relevant. I'm trying to point out the flaws/falsehoods in the narratives being pushed.

For FWIW there was an interview from Terry Crews where he essentially tried to explain how BLM isn't exactly pushing for what they claim to be. So not every black person is on board with the way BLM has conducted themselves or their motives.

[Orin]

Spoiler:

The vast majority of blacks lives if not all of them that were taken by police officers were big time criminals.

Irrelevant. Oftentimes the police officers have no idea what their criminal backgrounds were before murdering them, not to mention it's not their job to decide whether or not someone deserves to live regardless of crimes. That's why we have a justice system that allows you to be tried in court. Although I have a problem with the death penalty in general so I'll just stop there.

George Floyd was a career criminal who was high out of his mind at the time of his arrest and subsequent death, who not only was resisting arrest was was acting like a crazy person, watch the leaked footage not just the end of it. The recent Louisiana shooting, the guy was walking towards the store with a knife in hand with obviously the intention to either rob the place or stab someone. I don't think i need to get into the other examples really.

...Did you just try to use being high as justification for why someone should die? Fox News and the War on Drugs have really corrupted your mind if you think someone battling addiction is evil and not worthy of life. His criminal history doesn't warrant being killed on the spot by the way either. Mostly drug charges which from my moral perspective aren't deserving of jail time in the first place. Theft of a person over 20 years earlier. And then armed robbery of a woman in 07 which is obviously the worst one but again that was 13 years prior and he already did the time.

So really what you're saying at the end of the day is the cops were right to kill him in cold blood/stand by and watch the murder because of a freaking $20 counterfeit bill he used after not having any criminal history in over a decade. Also I did watch the footage. At no point was he being at all threatening towards the officers. He was terrified and telling them "please don't shoot me" and he had health issues and I'm sure being high didn't help. It's an officer's duty to be able to handle that situation INFINITELY better and kneeling on a man's neck for close to 10 full minutes while he's stationary on the ground, not posing any harm, and telling you he can't breathe is nothing besides callous disgusting murder.

There's obviously police racism and police brutality out there, but at some point we can't keep acting like criminals can do whatever they want without consequence.

Black lives do matter, so why aren't people protesting the fact that blacks kill more blacks than whites do?

Cops are supposed to be the ones who protect us. Why are you engaging in useless whataboutisms and comparing them to criminals?

And oh we do protest that! You want to know how we do that? We call for mass educational reform, ending the war on drugs, working to eliminate poverty, livable wages, universal health care, and better funding underprivileged areas which all help to combat the actual source of crime which everyone agrees is an issue. Because you know what's the major source of crime? Not having access to the resources you need to support yourself and your family, something that disproportionately affects black people because of this country's extensive history of disgustingly overt and more subtle racist practices from slavery to Jim Crow laws to the GI Bill exclusion to redlining to hiring discrimination supported by many studies to the War on Drugs to underfunding of black comminities and so on. And if your idea of solving the issue is: black people just need to make better decisions and not shoot and rob people! Then you live in more of a bubble than the NBA players.

Very well said.

I'm always in disbelief when people bring up someone's past as a justification for the police murdering them.

[RCM88x]

Spoiler:

The vast majority of blacks lives if not all of them that were taken by police officers were big time criminals.

Irrelevant. Oftentimes the police officers have no idea what their criminal backgrounds were before murdering them, not to mention it's not their job to decide whether or not someone deserves to live regardless of crimes. That's why we have a justice system that allows you to be tried in court. Although I have a problem with the death penalty in general so I'll just stop there.

George Floyd was a career criminal who was high out of his mind at the time of his arrest and subsequent death, who not only was resisting arrest was was acting like a crazy person, watch the leaked footage not just the end of it. The recent Louisiana shooting, the guy was walking towards the store with a knife in hand with obviously the intention to either rob the place or stab someone. I don't think i need to get into the other examples really.

...Did you just try to use being high as justification for why someone should die? Fox News and the War on Drugs have really corrupted your mind if you think someone battling addiction is evil and not worthy of life. His criminal history doesn't warrant being killed on the spot by the way either. Mostly drug charges which from my moral perspective aren't deserving of jail time in the first place. Theft of a person over 20 years earlier. And then armed robbery of a woman in 07 which is obviously the worst one but again that was 13 years prior and he already did the time.

So really what you're saying at the end of the day is the cops were right to kill him in cold blood/stand by and watch the murder because of a freaking $20 counterfeit bill he used after not having any criminal history in over a decade. Also I did watch the footage. At no point was he being at all threatening towards the officers. He was terrified and telling them "please don't shoot me" and he had health issues and I'm sure being high didn't help. It's an officer's duty to be able to handle that situation INFINITELY better and kneeling on a man's neck for close to 10 full minutes while he's stationary on the ground, not posing any harm, and telling you he can't breathe is nothing besides callous disgusting murder.

There's obviously police racism and police brutality out there, but at some point we can't keep acting like criminals can do whatever they want without consequence.

Black lives do matter, so why aren't people protesting the fact that blacks kill more blacks than whites do?

Cops are supposed to be the ones who protect us. Why are you engaging in useless whataboutisms and comparing them to criminals?

And oh we do protest that! You want to know how we do that? We call for mass educational reform, ending the war on drugs, working to eliminate poverty, livable wages, universal health care, and better funding underprivileged areas which all help to combat the actual source of crime which everyone agrees is an issue. Because you know what's the major source of crime? Not having access to the resources you need to support yourself and your family, something that disproportionately affects black people because of this country's extensive history of disgustingly overt and more subtle racist practices from slavery to Jim Crow laws to the GI Bill exclusion to redlining to hiring discrimination supported by many studies to the War on Drugs to underfunding of black comminities and so on. And if your idea of solving the issue is: black people just need to make better decisions and not shoot and rob people! Then you live in more of a bubble than the NBA players.

Very well said.

I'm always in disbelief when people bring up someone's past as a justification for the police murdering them.

This is true. However, people might feel less sympathy for others based on their past. It's a problem with making every murdered person a martyr, eventually people get tired of it and start to not care.

Like it or not, if all these people had spotless records there would be a lot more support behind them and a lot more push back against police violence. However, the trend is these people don't have spotless records, so many people just stops feeling sympathy for those effected.

The details of the incident matter to people too and have an impact. Did they also posses a weapon, did they resist, did they escalate the situation? Ultimately it shouldn't matter, but it definitely turns people off.

[Dr Positivity]

In the case of Blake it's more relevant because a guy with an arrest warrant on him with a history of firearms, etc. is the last person you want to let reach for something in their car instead of complying.

Also sue me for thinking it's not the end of the world that a sex offender got paralyzed. People like Jacob Blake and Rayshard Brooks have rap sheets suggesting they're horrible people. It doesn't mean we should cheer for them to be hurt but I'm not shedding a tear either. Do Italians care when a mobster with a horrific criminal history gets shot while committing a crime? No.

[HeartBreakKid]

In the case of Blake it's more relevant because a guy with an arrest warrant on him with a history of firearms, etc. is the last person you want to let reach for something in their car instead of complying.

Also sue me for thinking it's not the end of the world that a sex offender got paralyzed. People like Jacob Blake and Rayshard Brooks have rap sheets suggesting they're horrible people. It doesn't mean we should cheer for them to be hurt but I'm not shedding a tear either. Do Italians care when a mobster with a horrific criminal history gets shot in the back while committing a crime? No.

Why does it matter if these guys have clean records or not? They do not need to be outstanding citizens.

Even if they are criminals, the bad kinds at that, it doesn't mean much. As for them being martyred, well that is the by product of it - but instead of wasting energy correcting people in that "that guy wasn't really a good guy in reality" you could just use the same amount of energy to say "well, that cop wasn't really very good at his job". Ultimately, if you think the person shouldn't have been killed then why bother playing devils advocate?

I don't know what your last sentence means - Italians hardly have great reputations for having modern ethics. Also, not all criminals have "horrific" histories comparable to a mobster you would see on television.

[RCM88x]

BLM has been in the news for long enough and has been explained enough that if an "average voting person" doesn't understand it, it's because they don't want to.

I completely disagree. You poll the average voter in the US, a white male in their 60s, they will not be able to explain the meaning and the differences between these terms.

The problem is assuming everyone knows what you know and disregarding those who don't, and blaming them for not being up to speed. It isolates and alienates people increasing division.

If they don't know the meaning, why would they be hostile to the movement? Shouldn't they be agnostic, and if curious willing to learn more? If they really don't understand what BLM is, they can look it up quite easily.

People are often hostile to things they don't understand. Especially when they are consistently bombarded with it, and it's associated with violence and vandalism.

Why would they be curious and want to understand it better if they are hostile/netural to it? Especially when they are already sick of hearing about it?

Sure they can look it up easily, but why would they? It doesn't benefit them to understand it better, and besides it takes effort to do so. Takes much less effort just to complain about constantly hearing about it, or ignore it completely and go about their lives.

[RCM88x]

In the case of Blake it's more relevant because a guy with an arrest warrant on him with a history of firearms, etc. is the last person you want to let reach for something in their car instead of complying.

Also sue me for thinking it's not the end of the world that a sex offender got paralyzed. People like Jacob Blake and Rayshard Brooks have rap sheets suggesting they're horrible people. It doesn't mean we should cheer for them to be hurt but I'm not shedding a tear either. Do Italians care when a mobster with a horrific criminal history gets shot in the back while committing a crime? No.

Why does it matter if these guys have clean records or not? They do not need to be outstanding citizens.

Even if they are criminals, the bad kinds at that, it doesn't mean much. As for them being martyred, well that is the by product of it - but instead of wasting energy correcting people in that "that guy wasn't really a good guy in reality" you could just use the same amount of energy to say "well, that cop wasn't really very good at his job". Ultimately, if you think the person shouldn't have been killed then why bother playing devils advocate?

I don't know what your last sentence means - Italians hardly have great reputations for having modern ethics. Also, not all criminals have "horrific" histories comparable to a mobster you would see on television.

It means people are less sympathetic to them, and the causes that rally behind them. That is all. They being to value other things more, prioritize other issues.

I would totally agree if their records had simple harmless things like parking tickets, or speeding, or vandalism, most people wouldn't feel the same way. However the things on these guys records are bigger than that, and it definitely turns people off.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Ive lived here for 2 years, in a pretty liberal city no less, and anyone that doesnt see the reality of sustematic police racism either doesnt live here or lives in more of a bubble than the nba is in.

Its mot about "oh black on black crime is high" and BS like that, (even though that literally harkens back to systematic racism anyway) or the fact that some of the people murdered in cold blood arent saints, but its the fact that if youre black in america theres always this justified doubt that some messed up crap gonna happen whenever you step outside and see a cop, that when I look at one I feel safer while if my black friends see one they feel fear. That when i mess up in front of a cop i get a stern talking too for like 5 minutes at most and if my friends mess up they can get threatened with arrest kr smacked in the face for the exact same BS I do, not to mention how much ridiculous bullcrap my white friends get away with

Im sorry but anyone that doesnt realize this who lives in america lives in their own deluded world

All lives matter is literally a countermovements to BLM its a racist position by default, and all lives dont matter till black ones do

The 60 year old white men that are pointing to these guys records are the same ones who dont wear a mask lol.

[ardee]

Advocates does bring people together, just not people who are pro all lives matter.

Imagine thinking being pro the idea that all lives matter is a bad thing.

Is that what you think All Lives Matters means? Or are you making a joke?

That's what it means to me and to everyone who doesn't find it offensive. I can't help it if those of a certain political persuasion experience such anger when reading such a simple well meaning phrase.

If police racism and police brutality exist - why are you adverse to protesting it?

That's because it doesn't, at least on any appreciable scale. It's a narrative pushed by the mainstream media to demonize police officers and generate chaos in the country.

[ardee]

The 60 year old white men that are pointing to these guys records are the same ones who dont wear a mask lol.

I'm a nonwhite man in my 20s and I wear a mask If you think the only people who don't have sympathy for a violent career criminal with home invasion and sexual assault on his rap sheet belong to that particular age group and race then you're the one in a bubble... which makes sense because you're not from here and have only spent time in a city that is not remotely representative of the rest of the country.

[ardee]

In the case of Blake it's more relevant because a guy with an arrest warrant on him with a history of firearms, etc. is the last person you want to let reach for something in their car instead of complying.

Also sue me for thinking it's not the end of the world that a sex offender got paralyzed. People like Jacob Blake and Rayshard Brooks have rap sheets suggesting they're horrible people. It doesn't mean we should cheer for them to be hurt but I'm not shedding a tear either. Do Italians care when a mobster with a horrific criminal history gets shot while committing a crime? No.

Rayshard Brooks was literally a child abuser. It amazes me that these people can sweep that under the rug because they're so eager to push a political narrative.

[ardee]

Anyway, I'm done with this. No point risking getting banned again.

[MyUniBroDavis]

The 60 year old white men that are pointing to these guys records are the same ones who dont wear a mask lol.

I'm a nonwhite man in my 20s and I wear a mask If you think the only people who don't have sympathy for a violent career criminal with home invasion and sexual assault on his rap sheet belong to that particular age group and race then you're the one in a bubble... which makes sense because you're not from here and have only spent time in a city that is not remotely representative of the rest of the country.

Oh yes, im sure that oklahoma cops are much better than the ones in LA buddy

Im not saying hes a perfect person but if he was white they wouldnt have shot him

Fact is ive lived in THE liberal state for 2 years and i cna see how apparent police racial discrimination is, both my sisters whove lived here for 10 and 5 years see the same thing

[ardee]

The 60 year old white men that are pointing to these guys records are the same ones who dont wear a mask lol.

I'm a nonwhite man in my 20s and I wear a mask If you think the only people who don't have sympathy for a violent career criminal with home invasion and sexual assault on his rap sheet belong to that particular age group and race then you're the one in a bubble... which makes sense because you're not from here and have only spent time in a city that is not remotely representative of the rest of the country.

Oh yes, im sure that oklahoma cops are much better than the ones in LA buddy

Im not saying hes a perfect person but if he was white they wouldnt have shot him

Fact is ive lived in THE liberal state for 2 years and i cna see how apparent police racial discrimination is, both my sisters whove lived here for 10 and 5 years see the same thing

Lol read my response again.

I said because you live in a liberal bubble that is nothing like the rest of America you seem to think that only people of a certain race and age group hold "no-no" beliefs. The fact is that plenty of people of all races and age groups lack sympathy for people who break into others' houses and commit sexual assault, despite what your experience with leftists in said bubble may have you believe.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Also on the all lives matter thing

If you say it ur literally trying to take attention away from BLM which is what it was made for, it basically means all lives matter except the black one. I dont particularly give a damn what you want it to mean or what you think it means

If i say lebron james means little blonde white girl that doesnt actually effect what lebron james is right