PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

[Zeitgeister]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

Of course not. The overwhelming majority of human beings feel some level of empathy for other human beings. There are various things that people learn that help or hinder their empathy for others. In the end we rely and need one another to survive.

[limbo]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

I think those thinks would increase without Religion.

How come?

Also, isn't religion, at least Christianity, specifically Catholicism, basically non-existent in most 'developed' Western countries (looking at mainly USA and Western Europe, maybe Australia) anyway?

And i'm not talking about just believing in your own made-up version of God/Christ, and what you think he should be like according to you (that's more in the realm of spirituality), but strictly adhering to religious guidelines written in the Bible.

Most people i know who claim to be religious can't even cite a single passage from the Bible. Those who can, just use specific tenants of religion as a proxy to live advantageously.

And this doesn't only apply to Christianity, but other religions as well. I personally know people in Europe who claim to be Muslim, but then go drink alcohol and party at the club every weekend... But if you question their devotion to Islam they'd probably fight you, to death if need be...

Idk, when someone talk to me about religion in 2020, especially in developed Western countries, it's all a façade for the most part... And people can say ''well, you don't actually need to adhere to every single thing written in the Bible/Quran and still be religious, if that's what you feel like in your heart of hearts!''... yeah, right. You're either religious and believe in what your ideology preaches, or you're not religious... that's it. You can't pick and choose whether you want to follow your ideology depending on if it suits you or not, cause at that point you're just weaponizing religion for your own personal benefit.

Religion is largely extinct in 1st World Western countries... Which is why those who control the information (MSM, politics, conglomerates) are now the ones who have the monopoly over ethics/thought and are re-writing human behavior, actions and understanding of the World on a fundamental level... which is also the reason why the level of degeneracy, relative to the development curve of human knowledge, is at an all-time high.

[Jordan Syndrome]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

I think those thinks would increase without Religion.

How come?

From my experience, Religion has often been used an extension to be ignorant and thrust one owns belief systems upon others. I haven't seen the same egregious behavior from people claiming to be "non-believers".

[Doctor MJ]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

No. My dogs display more empathy than most people and do so entirely without religion. Humans aren't really that different from dogs.

The thing that we're in danger of losing in general is a sense of the purpose of civilization which is what allows us to function well on the scale of thousands and millions. At one point I think you can argue that religion helped solidify this abstract idea, but on a societal level, this absolutely not how its being used in my society any more.

[HeartBreakKid]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

Humans are social creatures and rely on teamwork to get things done. Humans have had empathy for each other for tens of thousands of years prior to the construct of organized religion probably.

Not to mention in many parts of the world people generally do not believe in the after life or have strong theocratic views and things are pretty well in terms of ethics and empathetic behavior (East Asia for example).

[Dr Positivity]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

No, there are enough non-religious people who have these traits, that it's clear it's baked into society without religion.

However I believe without religion, there would be a vacuum that could be filled in unpredictable ways. There are psychological reasons why religion dominated so much for thousands of years, and while religion is not as popular now as it was before, our biology has not changed from the very recent past. So if you remove religion it's stranding a lot of people who would've been a hundred years ago and asking them to fill that hunger in a different way. Without getting political, you can tell from my sig one of the ways I think the vacuum has been filled.

[MisterHibachi]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

No. My dogs display more empathy than most people and do so entirely without religion. Humans aren't really that different from dogs.

The thing that we're in danger of losing in general is a sense of the purpose of civilization which is what allows us to function well on the scale of thousands and millions. At one point I think you can argue that religion helped solidify this abstract idea, but on a societal level, this absolutely not how its being used in my society any more.

Agreed. I think religion, more than a sense of morality, gives a sense of community. You'll find a lot more people experiencing alienation in modernity than before, part of which I think should be attributed to the decline of religion in public life. And given how easy it is for some young men to fall into extremism, both in developing and developed countries, I don't think we've created anything that replaces that particular benefit of religion on the same scale.

[Doctor MJ]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

No. My dogs display more empathy than most people and do so entirely without religion. Humans aren't really that different from dogs.

The thing that we're in danger of losing in general is a sense of the purpose of civilization which is what allows us to function well on the scale of thousands and millions. At one point I think you can argue that religion helped solidify this abstract idea, but on a societal level, this absolutely not how its being used in my society any more.

Agreed. I think religion, more than a sense of morality, gives a sense of community. You'll find a lot more people experiencing alienation in modernity than before, part of which I think should be attributed to the decline of religion in public life. And given how easy it is for some young men to fall into extremism, both in developing and developed countries, I don't think we've created anything that replaces that particular benefit of religion on the same scale.

Well, now we're butting up against the rule the thread, because from my experience, religion served as the tool of our current partisan divide as much anything else. The short-term effect has not remotely been a disappearance of religion, but a warping of it into something else.

[limbo]

I think those thinks would increase without Religion.

How come?

From my experience, Religion has often been used an extension to be ignorant and thrust one owns belief systems upon others. I haven't seen the same egregious behavior from people claiming to be "non-believers".

Don't people cling to anything they can to be ignorant and thrust their own belief systems upon others regardless? Religion is just an easy culprit to point the finger at because of how widespread and important its role was throughout most human history.

Now that religion has basically been abandoned on a larger scale then ever in the West, people are just gravitating towards other stuff that allows them to close-mindedly propagate their own belief system... Most of it is driven by mainstream media, politics, pseudo-science, other various degeneracy, instead of religion...

Good or bad, I think there's something natural about human beings wanting to impose and influence their ideology upon others. I mean... isn't this forum basically living proof of that? How many people here are trying to convince and argue with others about how their view of basketball is the 'correct' way to think about the game and the players. It's ingrained in our DNA, because it served as a means to form tribes in order to have a higher chance of survival. You needed to convince other people that your approach is right, and for them to follow/think like you, even at the cost of being ignorant or flat out wrong, because if you didn't, then you'd be outnumbered and die. Simple as that.

[HeartBreakKid]

Random philosophical question: do you believe compassion, empathy-driven behavior, and general "good ethics" would ultimately [eventually] disappear if religion [that is: a belief in a higher power] were to die?

No. My dogs display more empathy than most people and do so entirely without religion. Humans aren't really that different from dogs.

The thing that we're in danger of losing in general is a sense of the purpose of civilization which is what allows us to function well on the scale of thousands and millions. At one point I think you can argue that religion helped solidify this abstract idea, but on a societal level, this absolutely not how its being used in my society any more.

Agreed. I think religion, more than a sense of morality, gives a sense of community. You'll find a lot more people experiencing alienation in modernity than before, part of which I think should be attributed to the decline of religion in public life. And given how easy it is for some young men to fall into extremism, both in developing and developed countries, I don't think we've created anything that replaces that particular benefit of religion on the same scale.

The biggest reason why people are aware that other people feel alienation is because they actually have the means now to find out other people feel alienated.

If we go back 70 years ago there was no way to know what most people felt like unless you physically met them, and even then you'd have to hope they'd open up to you which was not as acceptable as it is now.

[limbo]

However I believe without religion, there would be a vacuum that could be filled in unpredictable ways.

This is already happening in plain sight. People are lost and searching for guidance, something else that would guide them in the right direction in life. Unfortunately, that vacuum you mentioned is currently being controlled by MSM, politics etc. and they're sucking people directly under their wing and turning them into tax cattle zombie workers, with the only exceptions being truly exceptional people who can break free of that mold by providing extra-ordinary value.

[Doctor MJ]

Don't people cling to anything they can to be ignorant and thrust their own belief systems upon others regardless?

Speaking personally, that's not what I'm trying to be.

[limbo]

The biggest reason why people are aware that other people feel alienation is because they actually have the means now to find out other people feel alienated.

If we go back 70 years ago there was no way to know what most people felt like unless you physically met them, and even then you'd have to hope they'd open up to you which was not as acceptable as it is now.

There's truth here. Before the internet you basically only kept in close touch with your family/friends/coworkers. Everyone else you interacted with was a flash in the pan.

Nowadays, our minds are connected with billions of people and an unlimited amount of information every waking second...

The effect that has on the human psyche is... we've never come even remotely close to anything like it.

[Dr Positivity]

However I believe without religion, there would be a vacuum that could be filled in unpredictable ways.

This is already happening in plain sight. People are lost and searching for guidance, something else that would guide them in the right direction in life. Unfortunately, that vacuum you mentioned is currently being controlled by MSM, politics etc. and they're sucking people directly under their wing and turning them into tax cattle zombie workers, with the only exceptions being truly exceptional people who can break free of that mold by providing extra-ordinary value.

I can't really get into it without breaking the politics rule, but yes, I agree with you. You have a generation of people that grew up in the narcissistic social media era that are now depressed, with student debt, didn't have the romantic lives they wanted, etc. which made them the perfect marks by offering them meaning.

"Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make hard times" I believe the world has had a good run for a number of decades. But you can only go so long before people become complacent, forget the past, and forget about the snakes in the grass long enough for them to rebuild their plans and make another move. I'm actually optimistic the snakes overplayed their hand this time and the future is bright, but again that may be pushing the rules in this thread.

[limbo]

Don't people cling to anything they can to be ignorant and thrust their own belief systems upon others regardless?

Speaking personally, that's not what I'm trying to be.

I believe we all are to a varying degree, regardless if that's our primary goal or not.

Also, we have the capacity to realize that basketball isn't really that serious of a matter in the scope of life/survival. If we disagree ideologically on a basketball issue, it probably won't end in a potential life or death situation, so we act accordingly.

However, maybe, if you are a parent and raising your own son/daughter, i would imagine your investment into thrusting the correct belief system (which is heavily based on your personal one) upon them becomes much more crucial... Because if you don't, they are going to adopt someone elses belief system as their own, and is that a risk you're willing to take?

[limbo]

I can't really get into it without breaking the politics rule, but yes, I agree with you. You have a generation of people that grew up in the narcissistic social media era that are now depressed, with student debt, didn't have the romantic lives they wanted, etc. which made them the perfect marks by offering them meaning.

"Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make hard times" I believe the world has had a good run for a number of decades. But you can only go so long before people become complacent, forget the past, and forget about the snakes in the grass long enough for them to rebuild their plans and make another move. I'm actually optimistic the snakes overplayed their hand this time and the future is bright, but again that may be pushing the rules in this thread.

Yeah, RealGM is going to ban me one day, for speaking my mind. They really embody the ''to learn who/what rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" slogan really well, under the guise of a 'good cause' nonetheless.

Kind of reminds be of Big tech ala Google, Twitter etc. ''You're only allowed to talk about THESE things, in THIS specific way... it's for your own good''. Also reminds me of authoritarian dictators of the past and their tactics to control the masses and bend them to their will.

But hey... How about those Lakers, man? LeBron really be winning his 5th one next year, huh?

[Doctor MJ]

Don't people cling to anything they can to be ignorant and thrust their own belief systems upon others regardless?

Speaking personally, that's not what I'm trying to be.

I believe we all are to a varying degree, regardless if that's our primary goal or not.

Also, we have the capacity to realize that basketball isn't really that serious of a matter in the scope of life/survival. If we disagree ideologically or in any other way, it probably won't end in a potential life or death situation, so we act accordingly.

However, maybe, if you are a parent and raising your own son/daughter, i would imagine your investment into thrusting the correct belief system (which is heavily based on your personal one) upon them becomes much more crucial... Because if you don't, they are going to adopt someone elses belief system as their own, and is that a risk you're willing to take?

I was referring more to the notion of clinging in desperation to ignorance. As a science teacher, some might say thrusting my belief system on kids is what I do.

I think an important distinction is categorically what types of things are you trying to teach, and what types are not trying to teach? When I hear a phrase like "belief system" to me that imply a completeness of schema, and what I'm trying to give students techniques for schema-building.

[Doctor MJ]

However I believe without religion, there would be a vacuum that could be filled in unpredictable ways.

This is already happening in plain sight. People are lost and searching for guidance, something else that would guide them in the right direction in life. Unfortunately, that vacuum you mentioned is currently being controlled by MSM, politics etc. and they're sucking people directly under their wing and turning them into tax cattle zombie workers, with the only exceptions being truly exceptional people who can break free of that mold by providing extra-ordinary value.

I can't really get into it without breaking the politics rule, but yes, I agree with you. You have a generation of people that grew up in the narcissistic social media era that are now depressed, with student debt, didn't have the romantic lives they wanted, etc. which made them the perfect marks by offering them meaning.

"Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make hard times" I believe the world has had a good run for a number of decades. But you can only go so long before people become complacent, forget the past, and forget about the snakes in the grass long enough for them to rebuild their plans and make another move. I'm actually optimistic the snakes overplayed their hand this time and the future is bright, but again that may be pushing the rules in this thread.

Interesting. What defines strength here?

[Doctor MJ]

I can't really get into it without breaking the politics rule, but yes, I agree with you. You have a generation of people that grew up in the narcissistic social media era that are now depressed, with student debt, didn't have the romantic lives they wanted, etc. which made them the perfect marks by offering them meaning.

"Hard times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make hard times" I believe the world has had a good run for a number of decades. But you can only go so long before people become complacent, forget the past, and forget about the snakes in the grass long enough for them to rebuild their plans and make another move. I'm actually optimistic the snakes overplayed their hand this time and the future is bright, but again that may be pushing the rules in this thread.

Yeah, RealGM is going to ban me one day, for speaking my mind. They really embody the ''to learn who/what rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" slogan really well, under the guise of a 'good cause' nonetheless.

Kind of reminds be of Big tech ala Google, Twitter etc. ''You're only allowed to talk about THESE things, in THIS specific way... it's for your own good''. Also reminds me of authoritarian dictators of the past and their tactics to control the masses and bend them to their will.

But hey... How about those Lakers, man? LeBron really be winning his 5th one next year, huh?

My question for you:

If RealGM runs things poorly, shouldn't there be a competitor that does it better?

Now, maybe you think there is a place that does it better and I'm not going to even tell you you're wrong - though it'd be worth noting what further use RealGM remains for you if that's the case - but I'd ask this further prompt:

What if forums with more rule structure produce better content? How would you feel about said rules were that so?

[limbo]

I was referring more to the notion of clinging in desperation to ignorance. As a science teacher, some might say thrusting my belief system on kids is what I do.

I think an important distinction is categorically what types of things are you trying to teach, and what types are not trying to teach? When I hear a phrase like "belief system" to me that imply a completeness of schema, and what I'm trying to give students techniques for schema-building.

I would also advocate for giving people techniques/tools, so they can build their own belief systems/schemes and come up with their own conclusions based on how they want to live life. But i think we both know why this isn't as popular among people, Doc... It's because it takes more effort... it's harder, it's scarier, because there are not as many clearly defined outlines to go by.

Most people just go with what they're told or follow a pre-established belief trend because the system/blueprint is already there... You don't need to think, you just need to follow. I this again ties back to our instinctive animalistic nature. Animals do this, they follow the herd or whoever leads the herd.

And since we were talking about Religion previously, Religion was exploited and continues to be exploited on the same ground. Specific people come along, which we might deem as 'evil', and they don't present religion as a set of tools/techniques that an individual or a community can use to clear their path and build something out of... but they sell it as a fixed belief system you need to follow OR ELSE (bad things happen to you). And then it evolves into a mechanism to control a large population of people (which again, can be good or bad, depends).