PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#881 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:12 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:Part of what's scary about Covid is that it's having all sorts of complicated recurring-loop factors in some people's bodies that we haven't yet been able to track back to source. While this isn't the first time modern medicine has encountered issues like this, we haven't seen it in a major infectious disease to this extent. That fact that you could get something like this from something that appears to be so similar other coronaviruses is disturbing AF.



What do you mean by recurring-loop factors? And has there been any data on how wide spread it is?[/quote]

Things like cytokine storms are biological feedback loops. Your body triggering the same immunological response over and over again until it overwhelms the functioning of the body.

What do you mean by "how wide spread it is"? Are you talking about the number of people infected or something else?
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#882 » by Peregrine01 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 6:38 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:Part of what's scary about Covid is that it's having all sorts of complicated recurring-loop factors in some people's bodies that we haven't yet been able to track back to source. While this isn't the first time modern medicine has encountered issues like this, we haven't seen it in a major infectious disease to this extent. That fact that you could get something like this from something that appears to be so similar other coronaviruses is disturbing AF.



What do you mean by recurring-loop factors? And has there been any data on how wide spread it is?


Things like cytokine storms are biological feedback loops. Your body triggering the same immunological response over and over again until it overwhelms the functioning of the body.

What do you mean by "how wide spread it is"? Are you talking about the number of people infected or something else?[/quote]

Yes, data on how common these conditions are compared to base rates in how often it occurs in other respiratory diseases.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#883 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:22 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:Yes, data on how common these conditions are compared to base rates in how often it occurs in other respiratory diseases.


I don't have data on this, I'm going by what I'm reading in articles so it's possible I have the wrong idea.

Part of what I'm referring to though is the way Covid seems to produce many disparate symptoms. Respiratory diseases don't typically produce neurological symptoms, for example.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#884 » by Peregrine01 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 12:08 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:Yes, data on how common these conditions are compared to base rates in how often it occurs in other respiratory diseases.


I don't have data on this, I'm going by what I'm reading in articles so it's possible I have the wrong idea.

Part of what I'm referring to though is the way Covid seems to produce many disparate symptoms. Respiratory diseases don't typically produce neurological symptoms, for example.


I've also read a lot of articles that cite a lot of anecdotal examples of these wide range of different symptoms. I try to keep an open mind about things (especially in areas that I have no expertise), nonetheless the logical side of me makes me a little skeptical. There have been 90 million confirmed cases worldwide (and actual cases many times that number) and yet we haven't had huge numbers of people being hospitalized for these rather serious afflictions. This leads me to think that some of the serious symptoms that have been highlighted in the news isn't particularly unique to this virus.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#885 » by Doctor MJ » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:10 am

Peregrine01 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:Yes, data on how common these conditions are compared to base rates in how often it occurs in other respiratory diseases.


I don't have data on this, I'm going by what I'm reading in articles so it's possible I have the wrong idea.

Part of what I'm referring to though is the way Covid seems to produce many disparate symptoms. Respiratory diseases don't typically produce neurological symptoms, for example.


I've also read a lot of articles that cite a lot of anecdotal examples of these wide range of different symptoms. I try to keep an open mind about things (especially in areas that I have no expertise), nonetheless the logical side of me makes me a little skeptical. There have been 90 million confirmed cases worldwide (and actual cases many times that number) and yet we haven't had huge numbers of people being hospitalized for these rather serious afflictions. This leads me to think that some of the serious symptoms that have been highlighted in the news isn't particularly unique to this virus.


I'm not sure I understand. It sounds like you're saying that you're going to assume that all 90 million Covid cases have the respiratory symptoms and not other symptoms unless you're told otherwise.

Re: leads to think not particularly unique to this virus. Why would you think this? I'll readily admit I'm not someone actively in the thick of these things like health care workers are, but there have been specific articles written talking about the weird variety of symptoms associated with Covid, and you seem to be saying "...therefore there must have been similar symptoms with other common viruses".
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#886 » by Jordan Syndrome » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:13 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:Yes, data on how common these conditions are compared to base rates in how often it occurs in other respiratory diseases.


I don't have data on this, I'm going by what I'm reading in articles so it's possible I have the wrong idea.

Part of what I'm referring to though is the way Covid seems to produce many disparate symptoms. Respiratory diseases don't typically produce neurological symptoms, for example.


My partners says that Neurological symptoms can happen but nothing really outside of fatigue, muscle aches, head aches.

The loss of taste and smell is the big one that stands out, she says.

What makes Covid unique is the above mentioned loss of taste and smell, it (Covid) also causes more cellular damage and causes inflammatory cells (affecting the lungs) and it transmits so quickly and easily.

The fact it started on an animal and transferred to a human is extremely rare as most viruses stick to one domain.

These are all her words and she works closely with Pfizer.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#887 » by Peregrine01 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:37 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
I don't have data on this, I'm going by what I'm reading in articles so it's possible I have the wrong idea.

Part of what I'm referring to though is the way Covid seems to produce many disparate symptoms. Respiratory diseases don't typically produce neurological symptoms, for example.


I've also read a lot of articles that cite a lot of anecdotal examples of these wide range of different symptoms. I try to keep an open mind about things (especially in areas that I have no expertise), nonetheless the logical side of me makes me a little skeptical. There have been 90 million confirmed cases worldwide (and actual cases many times that number) and yet we haven't had huge numbers of people being hospitalized for these rather serious afflictions. This leads me to think that some of the serious symptoms that have been highlighted in the news isn't particularly unique to this virus.


I'm not sure I understand. It sounds like you're saying that you're going to assume that all 90 million Covid cases have the respiratory symptoms and not other symptoms unless you're told otherwise.

Re: leads to think not particularly unique to this virus. Why would you think this? I'll readily admit I'm not someone actively in the thick of these things like health care workers are, but there have been specific articles written talking about the weird variety of symptoms associated with Covid, and you seem to be saying "...therefore there must have been similar symptoms with other common viruses".


No, I meant that with 90 million confirmed cases (and likely far more in real cases - WHO thinks at least 10% of the world's population have already been infected), the fact that these weird symptoms haven't been widely documented except in anecdotal reports makes me think it's not as common as some of the alarming news stories would suggest.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#888 » by Doctor MJ » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:58 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:
I've also read a lot of articles that cite a lot of anecdotal examples of these wide range of different symptoms. I try to keep an open mind about things (especially in areas that I have no expertise), nonetheless the logical side of me makes me a little skeptical. There have been 90 million confirmed cases worldwide (and actual cases many times that number) and yet we haven't had huge numbers of people being hospitalized for these rather serious afflictions. This leads me to think that some of the serious symptoms that have been highlighted in the news isn't particularly unique to this virus.


I'm not sure I understand. It sounds like you're saying that you're going to assume that all 90 million Covid cases have the respiratory symptoms and not other symptoms unless you're told otherwise.

Re: leads to think not particularly unique to this virus. Why would you think this? I'll readily admit I'm not someone actively in the thick of these things like health care workers are, but there have been specific articles written talking about the weird variety of symptoms associated with Covid, and you seem to be saying "...therefore there must have been similar symptoms with other common viruses".


No, I meant that with 90 million confirmed cases (and likely far more in real cases - WHO thinks at least 10% of the world's population have already been infected), the fact that these weird symptoms haven't been widely documented except in anecdotal reports makes me think it's not as common as some of the alarming news stories would suggest.

If you Google, you’ll find plenty:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcomes/neurological-symptoms-common-in-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-northwestern-study-finds.html


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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#889 » by Peregrine01 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:27 pm

Thanks for the article. A lot of the neurological symptoms reported there are commonly observed in flu patients as well. I guess the question is whether COVID is worse in this regard?

Anyway, I was moreso referring to things like myocarditis that aren't typical in other respiratory diseases that was drawing a lot of scrutiny months ago. Perhaps I worded it poorly - that there hasn't yet been outsized effects of these outlier-type symptoms like this in clinical settings despite a huge number of cases doesn't lead me to think that these things are particularly idiosyncratic to COVID.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#890 » by Doctor MJ » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:58 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:Thanks for the article. A lot of the neurological symptoms reported there are commonly observed in flu patients as well. I guess the question is whether COVID is worse in this regard?

Anyway, I was moreso referring to things like myocarditis that aren't typical in other respiratory diseases that was drawing a lot of scrutiny months ago. Perhaps I worded it poorly - that there hasn't yet been outsized effects of these outlier-type symptoms like this in clinical settings despite a huge number of cases doesn't lead me to think that these things are particularly idiosyncratic to COVID.


Eh, Peregine, the first line in the article I posted was this:

More than 80 percent of COVID-19 patients hospitalized at Chicago-based Northwestern Medicine this spring had neurological symptoms, according to a study published in Annals of Clinical and Translational Neurology.


I think that answers your question.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#891 » by Peregrine01 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:15 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:Thanks for the article. A lot of the neurological symptoms reported there are commonly observed in flu patients as well. I guess the question is whether COVID is worse in this regard?

Anyway, I was moreso referring to things like myocarditis that aren't typical in other respiratory diseases that was drawing a lot of scrutiny months ago. Perhaps I worded it poorly - that there hasn't yet been outsized effects of these outlier-type symptoms like this in clinical settings despite a huge number of cases doesn't lead me to think that these things are particularly idiosyncratic to COVID.


Eh, Peregine, the first line in the article I posted was this:

More than 80 percent of COVID-19 patients hospitalized at Chicago-based Northwestern Medicine this spring had neurological symptoms, according to a study published in Annals of Clinical and Translational Neurology.


I think that answers your question.


Yes, I read the article. I was trying to get at how often do these neurological symptoms appear compared with respiratory diseases that we've lived with, like the flu? Closest compare I found is here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3559119/#:~:text=Overall%2C%2023%20(41.8%25)%20patients,coma%20in%20five%20(9.1%25).

Article states that 42% of a sample of 55 flu hospitalized patients had neurological symptoms. This is lower than 80%, but the sampling creates difficult apples-to-apples comparisons. One of the main differences in variables is age: average age in the flu study was 23 compared to 59 in the COVID study. Obviously, the older the age the greater the likelihood of having some neurological co-morbidity and/or having a more adverse outcome.

Anyway, I'm not trying to minimize the severity of COVID which I think is highly serious by itself, just felt the urge to push back on some of the more sensational things being reported.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#892 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:40 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:Thanks for the article. A lot of the neurological symptoms reported there are commonly observed in flu patients as well. I guess the question is whether COVID is worse in this regard?

Anyway, I was moreso referring to things like myocarditis that aren't typical in other respiratory diseases that was drawing a lot of scrutiny months ago. Perhaps I worded it poorly - that there hasn't yet been outsized effects of these outlier-type symptoms like this in clinical settings despite a huge number of cases doesn't lead me to think that these things are particularly idiosyncratic to COVID.


Eh, Peregine, the first line in the article I posted was this:

More than 80 percent of COVID-19 patients hospitalized at Chicago-based Northwestern Medicine this spring had neurological symptoms, according to a study published in Annals of Clinical and Translational Neurology.


I think that answers your question.


Yes, I read the article. I was trying to get at how often do these neurological symptoms appear compared with respiratory diseases that we've lived with, like the flu? Closest compare I found is here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3559119/#:~:text=Overall%2C%2023%20(41.8%25)%20patients,coma%20in%20five%20(9.1%25).

Article states that 42% of a sample of 55 flu hospitalized patients had neurological symptoms. This is lower than 80%, but the sampling creates difficult apples-to-apples comparisons. One of the main differences in variables is age: average age in the flu study was 23 compared to 59 in the COVID study. Obviously, the older the age the greater the likelihood of having some neurological co-morbidity and/or having a more adverse outcome.

Anyway, I'm not trying to minimize the severity of COVID which I think is highly serious by itself, just felt the urge to push back on some of the more sensational things being reported.


Okay, I appreciate your clarification and know that I respect you.

I think the key thing for me is that if the ratio of symptoms is the same as it is for any other respiratory illness, then it would not make sense for the reporting of them to be as they are. They may not be explicitly stating that Covid has more of these symptoms than the flu, but it is fundamentally implicit in everything they are saying, and thus if there is no actual difference, then someone is being purposefully manipulative (and some reporters are going along for the ride without realizing it).

You may be thinking "That's precisely my concern.", but that's not what you asked about. You asked for specific data that is already implicitly given in the articles, and while this is not an unreasonable thing, it seemed like you took the absence of this data as something that needed to be stated explicitly else you'd assume that Covid was the same as other respiratory illnesses, and I think that's a problematic line of reasoning.

I didn't address this before because I thought the 80% number spoke for itself. At 80%, you're talking about a number that should be seen as one of the main symptoms of the disease, and the main symptoms of the disease are always worth talking about. You can argue that perhaps they should be mentioned when discussing other respiratory diseases too given the numbers you mention, but I'd argue that the reason we don't in general is most likely because we don't see the same kind of %'s having them.

With all of this however, whatever sources I'm looking at could be wrong and I don't mean to claim otherwise.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#893 » by Clyde Frazier » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:46 pm

Image

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Cool graphic as per usual from Todd Whitehead. I knew the Russell Celtics teams had a ton of HOFers but something about seeing it visually is more jarring :o One thing to note looking at all teams is some of the HOFers were just role players at the time (or in the case of the '02 Lakers, Mitch Richmond lol).

*He missed Ray Allen on the Heat
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#894 » by Goudelock » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:59 am

Clyde Frazier wrote:Image

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Cool graphic as per usual from Todd Whitehead. I knew the Russell Celtics teams had a ton of HOFers but something about seeing it visually is more jarring :o One thing to note looking at all teams is some of the HOFers were just role players at the time (or in the case of the '02 Lakers, Mitch Richmond lol).

*He missed Ray Allen on the Heat


Part of me wonders if the 1977 Blazers would have had more hall of famers if Bill Walton had stayed healthy for more than a season and a half (and the team remained intact). Does someone like Maurice Lucas or Lionel Hollins get into the HoF if they are part of a dynasty that wins three or four championships in a five year span?
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#895 » by Firebird1 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:37 am

Damn it. I have been eating WAY too much food during quarantine.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#896 » by Jaivl » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:14 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
StepBackCrack wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:

My guy what is a white klay


Klay is mixed so he is considered black because of that I guess lol. Same with Curry (he is considered a black person I think). Harris is 100% white, hence "white Klay". :lol:


My guy that’s like calling someone black tiger woods except tiger woods is 1/4th black and klay is 3/4ths white lol

Y'all look so funny when you say stuff like that, lol.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#897 » by trex_8063 » Yesterday 12:22 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:Yes, data on how common these conditions are compared to base rates in how often it occurs in other respiratory diseases.


I don't have data on this, I'm going by what I'm reading in articles so it's possible I have the wrong idea.

Part of what I'm referring to though is the way Covid seems to produce many disparate symptoms. Respiratory diseases don't typically produce neurological symptoms, for example.


Perhaps in human medicine [not sure]. It's not terribly uncommon in animal/veterinary medicine, though, fwiw.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#898 » by trex_8063 » Yesterday 12:34 am

Doctor MJ wrote:I didn't address this before because I thought the 80% number spoke for itself. At 80%, you're talking about a number that should be seen as one of the main symptoms of the disease,


The same article is also listing [like Jordan Syndrome mentioned in post #886 itt] "headache" and "muscle aches/myalgia" as "neurologic symptoms", though. Those were the two most common listed, in fact. And fourth was "dizziness", which I could see being relatively commonplace with many illnesses, and pretty sure I've experienced with other viral illness.

I don't know about you, but I've literally NEVER had the flu [or ANY viral illness that led to notable fever] that DIDN'T result in myalgia for me. The "body aches", as I call them, is the hallmark for knowing that I have a fever, because it's so SO commonplace when I get sick. By that definition, literally every illness/virus that causes significant fever is "neurologic" in nature for me.


Disclaimer: please don't take this as some sort of "don't take Covid seriously" narrative. The last several months have woken me up to the dangers, and I take it VERY seriously. But at the same time, I don't want to be mashing on the fear button unnecessarily either.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#899 » by MyUniBroDavis » Yesterday 1:03 am

Jaivl wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
StepBackCrack wrote:
Klay is mixed so he is considered black because of that I guess lol. Same with Curry (he is considered a black person I think). Harris is 100% white, hence "white Klay". :lol:


My guy that’s like calling someone black tiger woods except tiger woods is 1/4th black and klay is 3/4ths white lol

Y'all look so funny when you say stuff like that, lol.


I am confusion
Rip

Peregrine01 wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure it should be such a given that the 17 team was better than the 16 version at their peaks.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#900 » by Jaivl » Yesterday 2:53 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Jaivl wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
My guy that’s like calling someone black tiger woods except tiger woods is 1/4th black and klay is 3/4ths white lol

Y'all look so funny when you say stuff like that, lol.


I am confusion

Not about you two guys, but as a general trend of the States.

All that stuff about grouping people on one of like five imaginary buckets ("white", "black", "latino", "asian"...), and it being so ingrained in society that it even appears in official documents and IDs.

It's absolutely bizarre looking from the outside. Racist pseudoscience from the early 19th century at its fullest. Not useful on determining procedence (at all), not relevant on a genetic level (not even close, if one would want to be biologically precise with clustering, accepting it's possible just for the sake of it, like 80% would be variations of the so-called "african" genome). What purpose does it serve? Just to say "dis dude blak skin"? And judging by Curry being "black" it's not even good at that lol.

(Mind you, do not think I mean to minimize racism using the topical "colors don't exist yadda yadda" cliché either, nor attack the shared heritage and history of, for example, the black population of the USA, or anything like that. Those are different conversations).

And when y'all start speaking about percentages... that's just the icing on the cake lol, always reminds me of Harry Potter.

Please excuse me for this level of... intensity? from a totally innocuous comment.
Maf wrote:I'd undestand if anyone had KG outside top ten PF's. Having him top five all-time? Often I jokingly rank Kyle Korver as the GOAT but I never try to fake serious discussion about it.

ShawnKemp96 wrote:Infact he made a lot more steals than the statisticians think.

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