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My game was backgammon, back in the 70s I made my living off it hustling kids at Stanford and Berkeley (where they thought they were a lot smarter than they were) while trying to make it as a sci-fi writer. Played a few regionals, nothing world class.

Quit playing altogether around 2000 or so; a combination of computer analysis (Snowie, Gnu, etc.) virtually eliminating the differences in playstyles and making the analysis far more standard and retiring from being a lawyer to teach meaning no money for gambling. Now, when I play mental games, it's usually bridge or the occasional role playing game.

penbeast0 wrote:My game was backgammon, back in the 70s I made my living off it hustling kids at Stanford and Berkeley (where they thought they were a lot smarter than they were) while trying to make it as a sci-fi writer. Played a few regionals, nothing world class.

Quit playing altogether around 2000 or so; a combination of computer analysis (Snowie, Gnu, etc.) virtually eliminating the differences in playstyles and making the analysis far more standard and retiring from being a lawyer to teach meaning no money for gambling. Now, when I play mental games, it's usually bridge or the occasional role playing game.

Man, it seems like there is a disproportionately large number of guys who played game(s) of strategy at a high level [high enough to profit by it] in this community. There's at least one other poster I remember talking to here who also played poker at a high level once [I think it was fpliii, maybe???].

There must be some correlation, whereby personality/brain-types that are drawn to games of strategy are also drawn to player analysis/comparison.

I honestly missed UConn taking the lead but watching this shot and just laughing.

?s=19

It's crazy how stacked all time Doc team is

Paul
Tmac
Clippers Kawhi
Celtics KG
Embiid

Bench: Simmons, Rondo, Allen, Pierce, George, Griffin, Deandre

They could probably beat the all time Jacksons (due to fit reasons and depth if you include it) or Popovich

Give me peak Shaq/Pau/Pippen/Kobe/Jordan. I can sprinkle in enough shooting to be just fine.

Let's do some coaches 5s then.

Phil Jackson
C: 2000 Shaquille O'Neal
F: 2009 Pau Gasol
F: 1994 Scottie Pippen
G: 2008 Kobe Bryant
G: 1991 Michael Jordan

Pat Riley
C: 1994 Patrick Ewing
F: 1994 Charles Oakley
F: 1989 James Worthy
G: 2006 Dwyane Wade
G: 1987 Magic Johnson

Gregg Popovich
C: 1999 David Robinson
F: 2003 Tim Duncan
F: 2016 Kawhi Leonard
G: 2005 Manu Ginobili
G: 2013 Tony Parker

Larry Brown
C: 1991 David Robinson
F: 2004 Ben Wallace
F: 1978 Bobby Jones
G: 1978 David Thompson (or 1995 Reggie Miller)
G: 2005 Chauncey Billups

Red Auerbach
C: 1962 Bill Russell
F: 1963 Tom Heinsohn
F: 1965 John Havlicek
G: 1965 Sam Jones
G: 1955 Bob Cousy

Jerry Sloan
C: 2008 Mehmet Okur
F: 1997 Karl Malone
F: 2009 Andrei Kirilenko
G: 2008 Deron Williams (Williams was too good to leave out, shame that I had to snub Hornacek)
G: 1992 John Stockton

Doc Rivers
C: 2008 Kevin Garnett
F: 2020 Kawhi Leonard
F: 2006 Paul Pierce
G: 2003 Tracy McGrady
G: 2015 Chris Paul

Erik Spoelstra
C: 2020 Bam Adebayo
F: 2012 LeBron James
F: 2020 Jimmy Butler
G: 2009 Dwyane Wade
G: 2018 Goran Dragic

K.C. Jones
C: 1987 Robert Parish
F: 1988 Kevin McHale
F: 1986 Larry Bird
G: 1985 Dennis Johnson
G: 1976 Dave Bing

George Karl
C: 2006 Marcus Camby
F: 1996 Shawn Kemp
F: 2009 Carmelo Anthony
G: 2001 Ray Allen
G: 1998 Gary Payton

Lenny Wilkens
C: 1997 Dikembe Mutombo
F: 1992 Larry Nance Sr.
F: 2001 Vince Carter
G: 1979 Dennis Johnson
G: 1979 Gus Williams (or 1982)
(Wow, this team is athletic af.)

Rick Adelman
C: 2002 Vlade Divac
F: 2002 Chris Webber
F: 2011 Ron Artest (or 2003 Peja Stojakovic)
G: 1992 Clyde Drexler
G: 1992 Terry Porter

And that's the top dozen of the winningest coaches in the NBA playoffs history.

Steve Kerr

Draymond
Durant
Iggy
Klay
Steph

Man, what a team that would have been... wait

Don Nelson

C: 1996 Patrick Ewing
PF: 2003 Dirk Nowitzki
SF: 1981 Marques Johnson
SG: 1984 Sidney Moncrief
PG: 2007 Baron Davis

Nellie is quite lucky that he coached Ewing for those 60 games. Otherwise his best centers are 1987 Sikma or 1981 Lanier. Great players, but at the tail end of their primes at best.

Rich Michmond wrote:Don Nelson

C: 1996 Patrick Ewing
PF: 2003 Dirk Nowitzki
SF: 1981 Marques Johnson
SG: 1984 Sidney Moncrief
PG: 2007 Baron Davis

Nellie is quite lucky that he coached Ewing for those 60 games. Otherwise his best centers are 1987 Sikma or 1981 Lanier. Great players, but at the tail end of their primes at best.

I don't think Nowitzki at C would be an issue with Nelson. I'd probably have something like this for him;
C: 2003 Dirk Nowitzki
F: 1985 Terry Cummings
F: 1977 Bob Dandridge
G: 1981 Marques Johnson
G: 1985 Sidney Moncrief

I'm always high Dandridge as he was Pippen before Pippen. But any team with Marques Johnson at F and one of Baron Davis, Tim Hardaway, Steve Nash at G or Chris Mullin instead of Dandridge also would make sense.

So apparently we're far enough removed from the 2000's that we're starting to see takes on Twitter about how Lamar Odom was robbed of all-star spots and that he would be dominant in today's NBA as a point forward.

Like we're now acting like Odom wouldn't have kicked ass in his era too if he actually tried in the majority of his games. Nostalgia is so strange sometimes.

Oof, vaccine questions and NBA stars, that Chuck I am not a role model commercial still ringing true.

Dr Positivity wrote:It's crazy how stacked all time Doc team is

Paul
Tmac
Clippers Kawhi
Celtics KG
Embiid

Bench: Simmons, Rondo, Allen, Pierce, George, Griffin, Deandre

They could probably beat the all time Jacksons (due to fit reasons and depth if you include it) or Popovich

Makes him being the biggest playoff choker along with George Karl even worse tho obviously he didnt have them all at the same time

Odinn21 wrote:Let's do some coaches 5s then.

Phil Jackson
C: 2000 Shaquille O'Neal
F: 2009 Pau Gasol
F: 1994 Scottie Pippen
G: 2008 Kobe Bryant
G: 1991 Michael Jordan

Pat Riley
C: 1994 Patrick Ewing
F: 1994 Charles Oakley
F: 1989 James Worthy
G: 2006 Dwyane Wade
G: 1987 Magic Johnson

Gregg Popovich
C: 1999 David Robinson
F: 2003 Tim Duncan
F: 2016 Kawhi Leonard
G: 2005 Manu Ginobili
G: 2013 Tony Parker

Larry Brown
C: 1991 David Robinson
F: 2004 Ben Wallace
F: 1978 Bobby Jones
G: 1978 David Thompson (or 1995 Reggie Miller)
G: 2005 Chauncey Billups

Red Auerbach
C: 1962 Bill Russell
F: 1963 Tom Heinsohn
F: 1965 John Havlicek
G: 1965 Sam Jones
G: 1955 Bob Cousy

Jerry Sloan
C: 2008 Mehmet Okur
F: 1997 Karl Malone
F: 2009 Andrei Kirilenko
G: 2008 Deron Williams (Williams was too good to leave out, shame that I had to snub Hornacek)
G: 1992 John Stockton

Doc Rivers
C: 2008 Kevin Garnett
F: 2020 Kawhi Leonard
F: 2006 Paul Pierce
G: 2003 Tracy McGrady
G: 2015 Chris Paul

Erik Spoelstra
C: 2020 Bam Adebayo
F: 2012 LeBron James
F: 2020 Jimmy Butler
G: 2009 Dwyane Wade
G: 2018 Goran Dragic

K.C. Jones
C: 1987 Robert Parish
F: 1988 Kevin McHale
F: 1986 Larry Bird
G: 1985 Dennis Johnson
G: 1976 Dave Bing

George Karl
C: 2006 Marcus Camby
F: 1996 Shawn Kemp
F: 2009 Carmelo Anthony
G: 2001 Ray Allen
G: 1998 Gary Payton

Lenny Wilkens
C: 1997 Dikembe Mutombo
F: 1992 Larry Nance Sr.
F: 2001 Vince Carter
G: 1979 Dennis Johnson
G: 1979 Gus Williams (or 1982)
(Wow, this team is athletic af.)

Rick Adelman
C: 2002 Vlade Divac
F: 2002 Chris Webber
F: 2011 Ron Artest (or 2003 Peja Stojakovic)
G: 1992 Clyde Drexler
G: 1992 Terry Porter

And that's the top dozen of the winningest coaches in the NBA playoffs history.

Id put 14 Bosh at the 5. Better player and provides much needed spacing for that team. The spacing otherwise for Spo is horrible.

There is a glaring omission tho

Alex Hannum

Guy Rodgers
Hal Greer
Rick Barry
Bob Pettit
Wilt Chamberlain

Bench still has Nate Thurmond, Dolph Schayes, Chet Walker, Billy Cunningham, Ralph Simpson, Cliff Hagan, Ed Macauley

Bill Sharman

Gail Goodrich
Jerry West
Rick Barry
Zelmo Beaty or Connie Hawkins
Wilt Chamberlain

I'd roll with Zelmo very underrated player and a great fit with that team. He was arguably the first pioneer for the stretch defensive big. Great defender and could shoot long range altho I might be missing another big I'm sure others here like penbeast or 70sfan would know more about that tho

Sharman team is actually amazing and a beautiful overall fit too

Seeing all these teams makes me appreciate how great Rick Adelman was. He doesnt have a true Mvp level player that he coached at any point. I guess peak Drexler is the best case and was 2nd in voting but im not that high on him and that Mvp "campaign" for Clyde always felt really forced since the media badly wanted a Sg to challenge Mj. Still he was able to get so much out of his teams.

Those Blazers teams were teams filled with 3rd - 5th option players among their best and he milked alot out of them. I also rewatched the 92 finals last summer and that series was ALOT closer than ppl remember. That was dangerously close to going 7. Bulls actually pulled away with Mj on the bench in some significant minutes in game 6.

02 Kings were the best team in the league and robbed of a title. One of the Goat passing teams and allrounders with their defense too.

Those Rockets teams were really good too and he always had them in fringe playoff hunt or right in when they were on paper lotto teams. Hes prolly the Goat floor raiser among coaches. And that Rockets team taking the 09 Lakers to 7 after Yao got hurt too has to be one of the greatest coaching feats ever.

He even got respectable seasons out of the Wolves and that 2014 team had the 9th best Srs, 9th best offense and 12th best defense. Their expected w/l was 48-34 but with a starting lineup anchored by Kevin Love and having Rubio, Brewer, Kmart and Pek its easy to see why they blew close games. Their bench was complete cheeks too. They still wouldve easily been a playoff team in the East with how significant conference imbalance was that season.

I think Adelman should easily be top 10 alltime on any coach list. Easily the Goat coach to not win a title IMO Sloan was too stubborn with his system

Curious about a thing. I had 2016 Thunder in mind, and got curious if Westbrook was ranked ahead of Durant in the PoY project.
And here's I didn't get because it looks inconsistent;
Westbrook is ranked behind Durant in PoY vote but ranked ahead of Durant in Offensive PoY vote while being the better, the more impactful defensive player though they were still on the same foot, this is not like Frazier vs. Dirk.
The gap in O-PoY vote is considerably bigger than the gap in PoY vote.

How did that happen?..

Odinn21 wrote:Curious about a thing. I had 2016 Thunder in mind, and got curious if Westbrook was ranked ahead of Durant in the PoY project.
And here's I didn't get because it looks inconsistent;
Westbrook is ranked behind Durant in PoY vote but ranked ahead of Durant in Offensive PoY vote while being the better, the more impactful defensive player though they were still on the same foot, this is not like Frazier vs. Dirk.
The gap in O-PoY vote is considerably bigger than the gap in PoY vote.

How did that happen?..

Russ wasnt anywhere near Kd defensively in 2016

Odinn21 wrote:Curious about a thing. I had 2016 Thunder in mind, and got curious if Westbrook was ranked ahead of Durant in the PoY project.
And here's I didn't get because it looks inconsistent;
Westbrook is ranked behind Durant in PoY vote but ranked ahead of Durant in Offensive PoY vote while being the better, the more impactful defensive player though they were still on the same foot, this is not like Frazier vs. Dirk.
The gap in O-PoY vote is considerably bigger than the gap in PoY vote.

How did that happen?..

Guessing it's something in how votes are tallied?

OPOY is top 3 voting, POY is top 5. Plus CP3 was pulling in votes on offense but not really for POY.

POY was

Durant 2 2nd, 7 3rd, 6 4th, 4 5th place.
Westbrook was 1 2nd, 7 3rd, 4 4th, 8 5th.

Kawhi was in pulling in some 4th/5th place votes here too, along with Paul.

OPOY only Paul was getting any top 3 votes that might have taken from Durant. Guessing some combo of that.

GSP wrote:

Odinn21 wrote:Curious about a thing. I had 2016 Thunder in mind, and got curious if Westbrook was ranked ahead of Durant in the PoY project.
And here's I didn't get because it looks inconsistent;
Westbrook is ranked behind Durant in PoY vote but ranked ahead of Durant in Offensive PoY vote while being the better, the more impactful defensive player though they were still on the same foot, this is not like Frazier vs. Dirk.
The gap in O-PoY vote is considerably bigger than the gap in PoY vote.

How did that happen?..

Russ wasnt anywhere near Kd defensively in 2016

I never had the impression of Westbrook being a worse defender than Durant in 2016 and available metrics tend to agree.

D-RAPM;
Westbrook 80% with +0.6
Durant 81% with +0.6

LA-D-RAPM;
Westbrook 81% with +0.8
Durant 22% with -0.7

D-LEBRON;
Westbrook 75% with +0.5
Durant 59% with +0.1

D-RAPTOR;
Westbrook 54% with -0.0
Durant 53% with -0.0

D-RPM;
Westbrook 70% with +0.6
Durant 78% with +1.0

D-PIPM;
Westbrook 79% with +0.8
Durant 73% with +0.6

Other than luck adjusted D-RAPM (don't know the reason for such disparity), the gap looks negligible.

Odinn21 wrote:Curious about a thing. I had 2016 Thunder in mind, and got curious if Westbrook was ranked ahead of Durant in the PoY project.
And here's I didn't get because it looks inconsistent;
Westbrook is ranked behind Durant in PoY vote but ranked ahead of Durant in Offensive PoY vote while being the better, the more impactful defensive player though they were still on the same foot, this is not like Frazier vs. Dirk.
The gap in O-PoY vote is considerably bigger than the gap in PoY vote.

How did that happen?..

Since Durant was coming off possibly his best defensive series ever they rated him over Westbrook who has always been mediocre at best on that end if not let off hook too often for being bad in my opinion

It largely seemed to wind up being a matchup thing, but KD's D was huge for them in that GS series and he was pretty solid against the Spurs as well, outweighed the season long stuff that painted them as more equal for many (myself included).