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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 7, 2021 12:09 am
by Statlanta
I'm watching old Dallas videos to get ahold of Dirk's prime and I'm not impressed by Jason Kidd.

He looks like normal player more than a HOF PG.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 7, 2021 12:17 am
by eminence
Statlanta wrote:I'm watching old Dallas videos to get ahold of Dirk's prime and I'm not impressed by Jason Kidd.

He looks like normal player more than a HOF PG.


Well, to be fair, he was 35 his first full season with Dirk, lots of guys look a lot worse by then.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 7, 2021 2:08 am
by Texas Chuck
Statlanta wrote:I'm watching old Dallas videos to get ahold of Dirk's prime and I'm not impressed by Jason Kidd.


Try watching again then. He was old, but the things that make him a HoFer are still quite evident in just how mentally far ahead he is of everyone else on the court--and at both ends. Just an absolute basketball genius. And not something you get from watching highlights. You need to watch entire games and more than one.

It literally cannot be missed.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:26 am
by Dr Positivity
Statlanta wrote:I'm watching old Dallas videos to get ahold of Dirk's prime and I'm not impressed by Jason Kidd.

He looks like normal player more than a HOF PG.


Kidd Mavs version is like Marc Gasol Raptors version or something, still championship level players a level down from their peak years.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 7, 2021 3:29 am
by HeartBreakKid
Kidd was quite a bit better than Raptors Gasol.

Jason Kidd was still good enough to make an all-star team(his PPG was too low and he was already declared a past prime roleplayer), and probably should have.

He is basically Marcus Smart with much better passing, and Smart is not a bad passer. That's an all-star player to me.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Thu Apr 8, 2021 2:17 am
by GSP
HeartBreakKid wrote:Kidd was quite a bit better than Raptors Gasol.

Jason Kidd was still good enough to make an all-star team(his PPG was too low and he was already declared a past prime roleplayer), and probably should have.

He is basically Marcus Smart with much better passing, and Smart is not a bad passer. That's an all-star player to me.


11 Kidd was not an allstar dont be ridiculous :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dr Positivity is on the money he was a Raptors Marc level player at best and Marc was prolly better too

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:41 am
by HeartBreakKid
Considering you're the hot take king I am not surprised you would think it is laughable so that makes me feel more confident on my take - and even if Kidd wasn't an all-star (he was, and he was better than many all-stars of the past decade) he was still easily better than Marc Gasol on the Raptors.

Both him and Tyson Chandler would or should have been all-stars if there wasn't such an over emphasis on PPG and they were in the East.


Actually, just the fact that you think Jason Kidd was only on the Mavericks in 2011 kind of speaks volumes to how attentive (or lack of) and warped up in media narratives you often get. The Mavericks weren't a major story any other year, and you automatically seem to think that Dallas Kidd = 2011 Kidd, what a coincidence.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:53 am
by GSP
HeartBreakKid wrote:Considering you're the hot take king I am not surprised you would think it is laughable so that makes me feel more confident on my take - and even if Kidd wasn't an all-star (he was, and he was better than many all-stars of the past decade) he was still easily better than Marc Gasol on the Raptors.

Both him and Tyson Chandler would or should have been all-stars if there wasn't such an over emphasis on PPG and they were in the East.


Actually, just the fact that you think Jason Kidd was only on the Mavericks in 2011 kind of speaks volumes to how attentive (or lack of) and warped up in media narratives you often get.


He wasnt easily better than Marc at all. Marc was a much better defender and crucial in them shutting down Vucevic, Embiid and Giannis in the playoffs. He was their anchor and best defender in the players of an alltime defense. He wasnt near Kidds passing but he was still one of the best passing bigs in the game.

Marc in Memphis pre Toronto trade averages 16/9/5/1/1 on .54ts. He was actually playing like an allstar that season unlike Kidd and had a reduced scoring role in Toronto.

As for Tyson Chandler even not counting Yao getting voted in as a joke Timmy was a far better player at center and so was Nene who had a much better case of being an allstar than Tyson among West centers. Then theres Bynum and Marc as well.

For overall west players - Dirk, Kobe, Kd, Cp3, Russ, Manu, Nash, Melo, Timmy, Pau, Nene, Marc, Blake, Odom, Love, Deron, Tony, Bynum, Aldridge, Zbo. Thats 20 players at least that were better than Kidd that season. He wasnt even clearly better than Conley or its prolly a push

And umm I was speaking specifically on 2011 Kidd... Thought thatd be obvious. If you think he was anywhere close to an allstar that season you can travel back to 11 to revise even more history

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:01 pm
by Dr Positivity
HeartBreakKid wrote:Kidd was quite a bit better than Raptors Gasol.

Jason Kidd was still good enough to make an all-star team(his PPG was too low and he was already declared a past prime roleplayer), and probably should have.

He is basically Marcus Smart with much better passing, and Smart is not a bad passer. That's an all-star player to me.


I think you are underestimating 2019 Gasol here more than anything... like Kidd a very good combo of defense, shooting in the playoffs, passing. 3rd in RPM for centers ftr.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:23 pm
by Odinn21
Anyone would be interested in doing a "top 5 single season peaks by franchises" project? I have this idea, it looks interesting to me and I have the desire to run the project but I wouldn't want to do it if it doesn't draw decent attention.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:26 pm
by HeartBreakKid
It could be fun. Would the Sonics and Thunder count as the same franchise?

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:44 pm
by Odinn21
HeartBreakKid wrote:It could be fun. Would the Sonics and Thunder count as the same franchise?

Yes, they'd be counted as the same franchise.
You can think of it as we'd follow the continuity on BBRef franchise profiles.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:55 pm
by Texas Chuck
Jason Kidd literally was an all-star as a Maverick the 2nd time around so uh yeah......

Not that that matters. He was still a very high level player without or without an all-star selection.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:33 am
by HeartBreakKid
Hey, i think 70sFan's "All-NBA" project should be added to the sticky projects thread


viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1998780&start=20

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:25 pm
by falcolombardi
this month i got a lot of free time and could watch a bunch of old and new games of teams i am less familiar with

and one of the thinghs that strikes me is how rarely the double teams of the illegal defense era work out,

more than trapping they often went at the on ball player coming from distance at his line of sight with enough time for a simple pass

and always seemed to either concede shots or at least would have conceded a open shot if the pass was made

i am having a hard time seeing how this was considered good defensive strategy, it seems to almost always backfire or at least not accomplish anything

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:49 pm
by PaulieWal
I got my first dose of the corona vaccine today. For the first time in months I feel a bit optimistic that life will return to normal at some point as I deal with this very sore arm and intense tiredness. Just wanted to share.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:21 pm
by LA Bird
Not sure if this is the right thread to post this but I have a couple of stat related questions:

1. What is the formula converting SRS to expected wins? I found this from 2019. Is there a newer equation by ElGee or anyone else?
eminence wrote:here's what Ben said he's used:

Expected Wins =((SRS/2+105)^15.3)/(((SRS/2+105)^15.3)+((105-SRS/2)^15.3))*82

I copy pasted that, and didn't double check for any typos, but it looks good at first glance. He said it's just a bit of an update on Oliver's formula.

2. How is the benchmark of a replacement level player calculated and how does it change from year to year? I found this for example and I was wondering if other people are using other thresholds and if so why.
trex_8063 wrote:career value above a replacement level player as measured by PER and WS/48 (replacement player defined as 13.5 PER and .078 WS/48 for rs, 12.5 PER and .064 WS/48 for playoffs)

Also, has anyone looked into a different replacement level than -2.0 in BPM/VORP?

3. More of a coding question but does anyone know how to extract the ELO values from this interactive chart?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/complete-history-of-the-nba/
There is a complete csv available on github but it has not been updated since 2015.

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Thu May 6, 2021 2:30 am
by Clyde Frazier
Image

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Sun May 9, 2021 3:04 pm
by Clyde Frazier
Noticed two pretty useful new features on bball reference: they added playoffs tabs right next to regular season instead having to scroll separately and also added every playoff series on the player's main page.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html

Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:45 pm
by Goudelock
Doctor MJ wrote:...


Hey Doc MJ, you're a teacher aren't you? I've started to notice that "90s kids" or millenials who are around their mid-30s seem to be a demographic who is very resistant to change when it comes to sports. The Marv Albert retirement threads have plenty of posters who want Marv to stay around as long as he wants.

And I've noticed on other social media platforms (and other real life conversations) that people of this age love to talk about how athletes from that generation (late-90s to late-00s) were incredible and should be given chances to stay in the league (AKA Jamal Crawford's fanbase). So to me, it seems as if this generation is almost obsessive in their quest to preserve and sometimes justify their childhood.

Of course, I've also seen Tiktoks made by 17 year-olds who are already romanticizing the 2017 NBA season and Adrian Peterson's 2015 Vikings campaign as the "good old days." So maybe it's just human nature to do this? IDK so I figured I'd ask you about this phenomenon where people wish to live in the past.



PS: I'm trying to make this as unpolitical as possible, as per the rules of this thread.