Jaren Jackson Jr vs Trae Young

[Deivork]

This is a tough one. For one, I personally like JJJ more but Trae Young might be just too good offensively to pass on.

Basing yourself on whether JJJ is an offensive first option or not is a bit moot. Is Kyrie a better player than Gobert? I'd say no when you calibrate impact. It's not the end-all be-all in a team sport.

JJJ is not in the same stratosphere as Gobert as a defender.

I was not implying that. I was comparing a very good player like Gobert who's not a first option on offense. That's JJJ potential.

[ThumbsUpBaby]

Trae Young > JJJ. Man Trae is entering the Carmelo realm of getting hate and he's only in his 2nd year. Ridiculous.

[Black Watch]

Knowing what you know today, what contract would you take between the two?
So, extra 2.5 years in the rookie contract + RFA.
This is NOT who is better today.

As good as Trae has been, JJJ might develop into the perfect big man for modern NBA. Super switchable, rim protecting, 40+% 3 point shooting and rim running 5.
I think he even has an outside chance to be the best player in his draft class (only if Luka doesn't develop as expected, otherwise his ceiling is much higher).

JJJ, all day, every day. Dude is the next unicorn to break out, and in a big way.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

It is a team game but my point rings true. Most championship caliber teams are also championship caliber rebounding teams. Some of the starters at Memphis need to be really good at it.

What I mean is that averaging 5 rpg doesn't make him a poor rebounder, rpg is not a good proxy on how much a player is making his own team rebounding better. Guys like the Lopez and Collins twins, Nene, Adams back to Clifford Robinson were making their teams much batter on the boards while not capturing many themselves.
In modern game, moreover, you don't WANT your big man to go for every defensive rebound like DeAndre, it's much better to have the lead ballhandler catch the uncontested ones to start the offence faster.

I admit I don't know if this is his case, he might be more of a Bargnani who was also losing all contested rebounds and not boxing out well enough, but for what I have seen it doesn't seem it's his case.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

71 JJJ, 71 Trae... this is quite a balanced poll, the question was not as dumb as some people are implying....

[marco102]

71 JJJ, 71 Trae... this is quite a balanced poll, the question was not as dumb as some people are implying....

lol...if you put this poll on twitter you'd get a vastly different result. RealGM doesn't like Trae Young. You could have put Alex Caruso up there and Trae would lose because of all the misinformation that has been put out about him.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

71 JJJ, 71 Trae... this is quite a balanced poll, the question was not as dumb as some people are implying....

lol...if you put this poll on twitter you'd get a vastly different result. RealGM doesn't like Trae Young. You could have put Alex Caruso up there and Trae would lose because of all the misinformation that has been put out about him.

I don't think there's anything personal, really nothing not to like about the guy.
I was sincerely happy to see this https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=512126419412587
He's not a polarizing personality like Iverson, or post decision LeBron, or Kobe. He's more in the Nash/Curry/Dirk mold, the guy everybody likes.
I think there can be legit concerns about his game at the very very top level, while seeing the crazy potential JJJ has in the modern game.
Moreover, RealGM (especially the PC board) one of the places were the "first option" primacy vs a great glue guy is more challenged. See all the discussions about Draymond, especially in the 73 wins season (when he was a legit top10, in my view).

[dakomish23]

JJJ
-0.7 DBPM
-1.88 DRPM (87th out of 94 PF’s)
56% DFG less than 6 feet
54.5% DFG less than 10 feet
Averages less than 5 rebounds per game
Memphis has a +6.3 DRTG with JJJ OFF the floor

How is he a defensive centerpiece & elite defender?

Julius Randle is 8th amongst PFs in DRPM

Is this really a stat we should be using when judging a player?

[marco102]

71 JJJ, 71 Trae... this is quite a balanced poll, the question was not as dumb as some people are implying....

lol...if you put this poll on twitter you'd get a vastly different result. RealGM doesn't like Trae Young. You could have put Alex Caruso up there and Trae would lose because of all the misinformation that has been put out about him.

I don't think there's anything personal, really nothing not to like about the guy.
I was sincerely happy to see this https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=512126419412587
He's not a polarizing personality like Iverson, or post decision LeBron, or Kobe. He's more in the Nash/Curry/Dirk mold, the guy everybody likes.
I think there can be legit concerns about his game at the very very top level, while seeing the crazy potential JJJ has in the modern game.
Moreover, RealGM (especially the PC board) one of the places were the "first option" primacy vs a great glue guy is more challenged. See all the discussions about Draymond, especially in the 73 wins season (when he was a legit top10, in my view).

Bro, you think Trae Young is liked on this board? I DARE you to create a post that says Trae Young is the best point guard against above .500 teams based on points scored, PER, and assists and you'll see the carniage unfold below. "stat padder", "worst defender in the league", "he's not better than Luka", "worst record in the league". That's what most of the comments will consist of. If you don't believe me, make it please or if you want me to, I will.

[dakomish23]

Both guys are players any team would love to have.

Once Bags gets it going, this might go down as one of the best top 5 of all time.

[Ball4life32]

JJJ
-0.7 DBPM
-1.88 DRPM (87th out of 94 PF’s)
56% DFG less than 6 feet
54.5% DFG less than 10 feet
Averages less than 5 rebounds per game
Memphis has a +6.3 DRTG with JJJ OFF the floor

How is he a defensive centerpiece & elite defender?

Julius Randle is 8th amongst PFs in DRPM

Is this really a stat we should be using when judging a player?

Not that I don’t agree but its not like that’s the only stat I used.

[CP War Hawks]

Jackson is simply a poor rebounder which shouldn't be the case. 4.8 last season, 4.8 this season. He avg. 5.8 in college. He's fallen in love with the 3 pointer taking 6.5 of them which will only go up vs. 3 free throw attempts. It should be the other way around.

He's developing bad offensive habits and staying out on the perimeter. Other than that, I like everything else. He's not physical on defense, but he should only get physically stronger being just 20.

Trae is a very non physical defender that doesn't hold up long enough for the help defender. His shot selection and turnovers are problematic at times, but he's such a gifted scorer and passer you have to live with it.

These young guys just develop bad habits in today's NBA that will only get worse with everyone getting big 100 millions on each contract. There's no incentive to change your play when your team will give a quarter billion by the time you are 30.

[cupcakesnake]

Knowing what you know today, what contract would you take between the two?
So, extra 2.5 years in the rookie contract + RFA.
This is NOT who is better today.

As good as Trae has been, JJJ might develop into the perfect big man for modern NBA. Super switchable, rim protecting, 40+% 3 point shooting and rim running 5.
I think he even has an outside chance to be the best player in his draft class (only if Luka doesn't develop as expected, otherwise his ceiling is much higher).

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

Topic moved to the Player Comparison board.

[Crizzle]

Jackson is simply a poor rebounder which shouldn't be the case. 4.8 last season, 4.8 this season. He avg. 5.8 in college. He's fallen in love with the 3 pointer taking 6.5 of them which will only go up vs. 3 free throw attempts. It should be the other way around.

He's developing bad offensive habits and staying out on the perimeter. Other than that, I like everything else. He's not physical on defense, but he should only get physically stronger being just 20.

Trae is a very non physical defender that doesn't hold up long enough for the help defender. His shot selection and turnovers are problematic at times, but he's such a gifted scorer and passer you have to live with it.

These young guys just develop bad habits in today's NBA that will only get worse with everyone getting big 100 millions on each contract. There's no incentive to change your play when your team will give a quarter billion by the time you are 30.

so taking 3s at a +40% clip is a bad thing?

[The-Power]

Jackson is simply a poor rebounder which shouldn't be the case. 4.8 last season, 4.8 this season. He avg. 5.8 in college. He's fallen in love with the 3 pointer taking 6.5 of them which will only go up vs. 3 free throw attempts. It should be the other way around.

He's developing bad offensive habits and staying out on the perimeter. Other than that, I like everything else. He's not physical on defense, but he should only get physically stronger being just 20.

Trae is a very non physical defender that doesn't hold up long enough for the help defender. His shot selection and turnovers are problematic at times, but he's such a gifted scorer and passer you have to live with it.

These young guys just develop bad habits in today's NBA that will only get worse with everyone getting big 100 millions on each contract. There's no incentive to change your play when your team will give a quarter billion by the time you are 30.

so taking 3s at a +40% clip is a bad thing?

Yeah, it's very weird to say things like that for a 41% 3pt shooter. Wonder why Trae isn't called out for it – virtually the same 3PAr but on worse percentages. Also, I tried to address the poor rebounding part and how to not look at the issue – guess it didn't help.

[freethedevil]

I agree that rebounding is totally overrated. My bigger concern with Jaren is that he hasn't shown the ability to be a impact/lockdown defender or effective deterrent at the rim yet, and you can usually tell if a big man is going to be by year two. .

He isn't protecting the rim because he physically hasn't filled out yet.

Aside from being 20, he shares the same traits/qualities of a draymond/kg/gianni type defender

[Buzzard]

Its only useless if he is surrounded by other great rebounding players. I have already posted this once; there have only been two champions in the past 25 years that were not in the top ten in rebounding;

Good thing Memphis is a top 10 defensive rebounding team. Already, with 20 y/o JJJ. The notion that you need to grab a certain amount of rebounds or you're a poor rebounder is so antiquated. It's also lazy analysis. If you want to make the case for JJJ as a poor rebounder, look at rebounding performance at the team level. Does JJJ's presence hurt the team's rebounding? This year, there's no indication of that.

I couldn't care less if the big grabs the rebound as long as he's doing his job boxing out and taking the board when needed. Brook Lopez has always been ridiculed for his rebounding numbers but he actually has a positive impact on his team's rebounding. This is not to say that JJJ cannot or should not improve in this area. I think he has to improve as a rebounder down the road. But this has nothing to do with the number of boards he pulls down; he can be a positive defensive rebounder and never even come close to double-digit individual rebounding averages.

They are 11th in defensive rebounding which is adequate. They are barely average in total rebounds at 15th.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?sort=REB&dir=-1

[dakomish23]

JJJ
-0.7 DBPM
-1.88 DRPM (87th out of 94 PF’s)
56% DFG less than 6 feet
54.5% DFG less than 10 feet
Averages less than 5 rebounds per game
Memphis has a +6.3 DRTG with JJJ OFF the floor

How is he a defensive centerpiece & elite defender?

Julius Randle is 8th amongst PFs in DRPM

Is this really a stat we should be using when judging a player?

Not that I don’t agree but its not like that’s the only stat I used.

You had other stuff that backs up your point and wasn’t trying to argue the validity. RPM just always reflects some weird stuff.

[Amare_1_Knicks]

At 21 years old, Trae is a superstar offensively. His career, impact and numbers so far are being overshadowed by Luka to this point in their careers(and may always be considering they were traded for one another) but the numbers he’s averaging have scarcely ever been averaged, much less by a 21 year old.

Defensively, he’s absolutely atrocious however — arguably the worst defender in basketball. He’s fairly slight of frame, at about 180lbs or so, but otherwise he has decent size: a shade under 6’2 with a 6’2 wingspan, which isn’t overly impressive by any means, but isn’t far from Kyrie, Curry, Kemba and others at his position in terms of wingspan. This suggests that with the right coaching, direction, and attention to his shortcomings on that end he could improve to a serviceable level.

I like JJJ’s game — he’s versatile, athletic and plays both ends(or at least flashes and the potential to play both ends), but doesn’t strike me as a ‘star’ on either end. All-star level upside, to be sure, but can’t say anything beyond that.

[BAMAFREAK]

JJJ with 7 blocks tonight