Is current Kawhi in the same tier as peak Kobe?

[GhosDini]

Kobe’s never had a 30 ppg/60 ts% title run before. People cling onto Kobe’s passing as his only advantage left. Kahwi is a far better scorer, shooter, 3 point shooter rebounder and defender.

What’s Kobe’s argument besides black mamba and clutch genezzz??

Kawhi plays in a much easier era in terms of offense. Its easier than ever to be efficient in todays league. Kobe has also had tougher conferences to fight through.

[Strepbacter]

Kobe’s never had a 30 ppg/60 ts% title run before. People cling onto Kobe’s passing as his only advantage left. Kahwi is a far better scorer, shooter, 3 point shooter rebounder and defender.

What’s Kobe’s argument besides black mamba and clutch genezzz??

Nobody cares about your silly and arbitrary benchmarks.

Raw TS% is worthless.

2019 Kawhi was at 39 points per 100 possession with a rTS of +6.5 ( adjusted for opponent quality)

2008 Kobe was at 38 points points per 100 possession with a rTS of +5

And Kawhi was the guy playing with five out spacing.

ITO RS Kobe has multiple scoring seasons that top anything Kawhi has ever done.

Exactly how is he a "much" scorer? Because you said so?

Add that to Kobe's glaringly superior passing and play-making, superior offensive impact metrics, and he's easily a better offensive player than any pre 2020 version of Kawhi ( and I doubt even 2020 and his newfound passing acumen is going to top Kobe's offensive peak)

The argument for Kawhi is going to be around his defense.

[uberhikari]

I just cannot bring myself to say peak Kawhi > peak Kobe.

First, Kobe was an absolute iron man. You could count on him to actually play. Kawhi missed more games in 2018 than Kobe missed from 2001-2011. In the last 2 games of the NBA Finals Kawhi was already starting to physically break down last year.

Second, the passing gap between Kawhi and Kobe is significant. And because of this Kawhi is simply not an offensive hub the same way Kobe is. Furthermore, Kawhi plays in the easiest offensive era possibly ever. 2001 Kobe ran through the Duncan/Robinson Spurs. And he didn't have nearly the amount of spacing or passing Kawhi had in 2019.

[euroleague]

Kobe’s never had a 30 ppg/60 ts% title run before. People cling onto Kobe’s passing as his only advantage left. Kahwi is a far better scorer, shooter, 3 point shooter rebounder and defender.

What’s Kobe’s argument besides black mamba and clutch genezzz??

Kobe's handles are better. Kobe's off-ball play was FAR better. Kobe got far more attention from defenses, and could take advantage because of his passing.

Kobe at his peak was a more consistent defender than 19 Kawhi, a better scorer/passer/ball handler, and he had a far less talented team. Not to mention his games played.

I'm not a big fan of Kobe. But, if I needed a player to anchor my offense, Kobe is the better choice.

[JordansBulls]

I mean, last year Kawhi was clearly better than peak Kobe IMO. We will see how he looks in the postseason this year but he has actually closed the passing gap significantly already. Durability is a big point in Kobe’s favor but Kawhi is just clearly the better basketball player to me.

People need to get rid of this fantasy when James Harden is averaging like 36-38 ppg and then when the playoffs comes disappears. James isn't getting that in any other era. Kawhi was good no doubt, but to say clearly is nuts.

[Pelly24]

Kobe’s never had a 30 ppg/60 ts% title run before. People cling onto Kobe’s passing as his only advantage left. Kahwi is a far better scorer, shooter, 3 point shooter rebounder and defender.

What’s Kobe’s argument besides black mamba and clutch genezzz??

I think the bolded has a lot to do with era. You should really only compare relative to league efficiency.

The average TS% in the league for 2006-2010 was 54%. So Kobe averaged 30 on 57 TS% in that span during the playoffs, so he was scoring at a rate of 3% better than league average. Two of those were on their way to title runs. The current league average for TS% as of 2019 was 56%. So Kobe was getting 30 a game on 59 TS%. That's elite scoring, and Kobe had two of those runs on his way to titles. So saying Kawhi is a far better scorer, especially considering he didn't face teams as good as the one's Kobe did in the East or the 2009 Celtics, is a big reach. Then, that's not even considering the ways Kobe's efficiency would improve in today's spacing-oriented game with his incredible athleticism and virtuoso skill. It's a reason why people saying Harden was better was always a bit short-sighted.

[SHAQ32]

Yes but Kawhi's better.

[kendogg]

Kobe is a better ISO player. Hell Kobe is the best ISO player of all-time other than Jordan. Kobe is a better post player. Kawhi is actually pretty money at the mid range I'll give it a wash there. 3's, you can't just straight compare 3PT% that makes 0 sense the rules and meta are different 20 years ago. You have to compare them to their contemporaries. And Kobe was always one of the best shooters from anywhere. Kobe is also the better handler and passer. So even if you want to say Kawhi is a better distance shooter than Kobe (and I don't even think that is true), Kobe is still better offensively overall IMO.

Defense...yeah Kawhi is better, but he plays forward so he SHOULD be more impactful. Just like centers are more impactful than forwards and guards defensively. They simply have MANY more opportunities for help defense. For his position, Kobe was always one of the best. I feel like they are in the same tier defensively. Kobe might have taken a play off on defense every now and again but Kawhi takes entire games off. Defense is about consistent effort and you ain't defending anyone sitting on the bench.

Is Kawhi in the same tier? Depends how you define the tiers. They are both superstars. They are both perennial MVP candidates in fact. Can't really begin to compare their legacies since Kawhi's is only half written, but he has a ways to go to pass Kobe on the all-time list.

[trex_8063]

They're in a similar tier, sure.....in terms of what they can do when on the court.

Personally, I'd give the edge to Kobe because he did so without taking 25-30% of the rs off for load management.

[Sublime187]

I'll take my boy Kobe. We didn't get to see him at his peak with the spacing that Leonard has the luxury of utilizing. And as T-Rex mentioned Kobe was playing a full season and playoffs. If he had the opportunity to take off 20-25 games a year I think he would be even better in the playoffs.

[fantomex]

Same tier, but Kobe is more skilled.

[nurseryc]

Is current Kawhi in the same tier as peak Kobe?

He’s so good right now and just basing it on skills and how dominant he is today, I think he’s even better than Kobe was because Kawhi is just more efficient.

Current Kawhi is in the same tier as peak Lebron.

[limbo]

I thought Kawhi had a good case already in 2016, especially when seeing the level he played at in the postseason. After seeing him be even better in 2017 across the whole year, i've been pretty comfortable in taking him over any version of Kobe. Since then, he has only reaffirmed this with another campaign in 2019, which was better than any Kobe year. Right now, this season, despite load management and all thr setbacks the Clippers and him have been dealing with, he's yet again playing on a higher level than peak Kobe. You could argue from a pure impact perspective, no one other than Giannis and LeBron have been better this season.

What makes Kawhi better than Kobe? He's just a better/more resilient scorer, as funny as this sounds, since Kobe is known as one of the most potent scorers ever. Kawhi isn't more technically skilled than Kobe (although i think he's underrated in this sense, some of the moves he does require really good footwork and balance, those fadeaways he hits consistently aren't as easy as they look), and i think peak Kobe is still a better playmaker, but Kawhi's combination of IQ/strength to get anywhere on the floor and finish + his accuracy is better + he takes better care of the ball + he has a higher baseline and peak defensively, makes him the better player in my book.

Kawhi is eerily similar to 2nd threepeat MJ in a way. Where MJ relied more on pure strength, IQ and footwork and less on his GOAT level athleticism and slashing ability. The main difference being MJ was the better playmaker but Kawhi has an elite 3pt shot.

[Jiminy Glick]

Kawhi is in a tier above, better defender and better shooter and scorer.

[CodeBreaker]

I thought Kawhi had a good case already in 2016, especially when seeing the level he played at in the postseason. After seeing him be even better in 2017 across the whole year, i've been pretty comfortable in taking him over any version of Kobe. Since then, he has only reaffirmed this with another campaign in 2019, which was better than any Kobe year. Right now, this season, despite load management and all thr setbacks the Clippers and him have been dealing with, he's yet again playing on a higher level than peak Kobe. You could argue from a pure impact perspective, no one other than Giannis and LeBron have been better this season.

What makes Kawhi better than Kobe? He's just a better/more resilient scorer, as funny as this sounds, since Kobe is known as one of the most potent scorers ever. Kawhi isn't more technically skilled than Kobe (although i think he's underrated in this sense, some of the moves he does require really good footwork and balance, those fadeaways he hits consistently aren't as easy as they look), and i think peak Kobe is still a better playmaker, but Kawhi's combination of IQ/strength to get anywhere on the floor and finish + his accuracy is better + he takes better care of the ball + he has a higher baseline and peak defensively, makes him the better player in my book.

Kawhi is eerily similar to 2nd threepeat MJ in a way. Where MJ relied more on pure strength, IQ and footwork and less on his GOAT level athleticism and slashing ability. The main difference being MJ was the better playmaker but Kawhi has an elite 3pt shot.

You absolutely nailed it man

[bledredwine]

Kawhi and KD are similar. Great defense and the most complete scoring games in the league for at least 5-6 years.

Still, I’d take peak Kobe over Kawhi and KD.

All three are remarkable players.

[bledredwine]

By the way,

here's some Kobe nostalgia for us

Watch on YouTube

So skilled... such a baller.

[KobesScarf]

You can't compare Kawhi and Kobe. Kawhi has never really put it all together. The one season he had a superstar load he got hurt in the 1st round of the playoffs.

[70sFan]

Kawhi and KD are similar. Great defense and the most complete scoring games in the league for at least 5-6 years.

Still, I’d take peak Kobe over Kawhi and KD.

All three are remarkable players.

Durant is not close to Kawhi as a defender. He's not great defensively either.

[Hussien Fatal]

No no no! You have to account for era if you are going to say One is better because of efficiency. This is Kobe