Where would 1998 Jordan Rank today?

[Matt15]

Where would 1998 Jordan rank in today’s league?

[Colbinii]

In the regular season?

Behind Giannis, LeBron, Doncic, Kawhi and Harden. Probably in the mix with Jokic, Lillard and Embiid.

The top-end talent last/this season is one of the best ever and the top 20 or so players this/last year is the best I have ever witnessed and/or researched.

[No-more-rings]

Interesting question. I’d feel comfortable saying top 10, but don’t think he’d be top 5.

Jordan by 1998 was 33-34 years old and relied heavily on mid range by that point. Without his prime athleticism and no reliable 3 point I don’t think his offense would be as good as the cream of the crop offensive players this year like Harden, Giannis, Lebron and Luka. His defense was still pretty good but not super elite really.

So as of now i’d say Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Luka, Davis and Kawhi are definitely ahead of him. Curry and KD would be ahead if they were healthy and playing too. I think he’d be somewhere around the level that 2019 Paul George was at for regular season.

Some will think that’s crazy but it may be generous honestly. MJ that year was at 28.7 ppg on +0.9 relative ts%, and wasn’t a big volume playmaker. There’s just no reason to believe he’d be like a 59-60 ts% scorer that would be required to be a top tier offensive player today. He was still the best player in 98, but was just an extremely weak year for top level talents. Hakeem, Barkley and Drob were all past their primes. Shaq struggled with durability. Duncan and Kobe weren’t in their primes yet, etc.

[agetro23]

Including both regular-season and playoffs, I would say top 3.

Mike would be better today, and his numbers would all go up including efficiency.

[agetro23]

Interesting question. I’d feel comfortable saying top 10, but don’t think he’d be top 5.

Jordan by 1998 was 33-34 years old and relied heavily on mid range by that point. Without his prime athleticism and no reliable 3 point I don’t think his offense would be as good as the cream of the crop offensive players this year like Harden, Giannis, Lebron and Luka. His defense was still pretty good but not super elite really.

So as of now i’d say Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Luka, Davis and Kawhi are definitely ahead of him. Curry and KD would be ahead if they were healthy and playing too. I think he’d be somewhere around the level that 2019 Paul George was at for regular season.

Some will think that’s crazy but it may be generous honestly. MJ that year was at 28.7 ppg on +0.9 relative ts%, and wasn’t a big volume playmaker. There’s just no reason to believe he’d be like a 59-60 ts% scorer that would be required to be a top tier offensive player today. He was still the best player in 98, but was just an extremely weak year for top level talents. Hakeem, Barkley and Drob were all past their primes. Shaq struggled with durability. Duncan and Kobe weren’t in their primes yet, etc.

Not to belabor your point, but Mike basically played half that season at 35. He turned 35 in February, post AS break.

I think that made his 1998 run even more impressive. Well, that and 1998-2004 arguably being the toughest defensive era.

[No-more-rings]

Interesting question. I’d feel comfortable saying top 10, but don’t think he’d be top 5.

Jordan by 1998 was 33-34 years old and relied heavily on mid range by that point. Without his prime athleticism and no reliable 3 point I don’t think his offense would be as good as the cream of the crop offensive players this year like Harden, Giannis, Lebron and Luka. His defense was still pretty good but not super elite really.

So as of now i’d say Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Luka, Davis and Kawhi are definitely ahead of him. Curry and KD would be ahead if they were healthy and playing too. I think he’d be somewhere around the level that 2019 Paul George was at for regular season.

Some will think that’s crazy but it may be generous honestly. MJ that year was at 28.7 ppg on +0.9 relative ts%, and wasn’t a big volume playmaker. There’s just no reason to believe he’d be like a 59-60 ts% scorer that would be required to be a top tier offensive player today. He was still the best player in 98, but was just an extremely weak year for top level talents. Hakeem, Barkley and Drob were all past their primes. Shaq struggled with durability. Duncan and Kobe weren’t in their primes yet, etc.

Not to belabor your point, but Mike basically played half that season at 35. He turned 35 in February, post AS break.

I think that made his 1998 run even more impressive. Well, that and 1998-2004 arguably being the toughest defensive era.

Defenses were more physical but part of it was just how less developed offenses were too. Would that version of Jordan be better today than he was then? Maybe, but certainly not by any meaningful manner. Defenses aren’t allowed to be as physical today but I think part of that is offset by there being better and more athletic perimeter defenders.

[picko]

Regular season wise he'd be around 5th. Maybe 6th. Giannis, LeBron, Doncic and Harden would all be viewed higher. For a variety of reasons (greater scoring or greater efficiency or a more all-round contribution).

Jordan had a great playoff run that season though. But obviously we cannot compare that to the playoff performance of players this season.

[JordansBulls]

Considering rule changes, Best Player for sure. None of these guys today beat Prime Shaq in the playoffs. Hell Jazz went thru Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq in the playoffs and lost to MJ.

[SHAQ32]

Considering rule changes, Best Player for sure. None of these guys today beat Prime Shaq in the playoffs. Hell Jazz went thru Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq in the playoffs and lost to MJ.

Hakeem was no longer Hakeem in 98. Tim Duncan was a rookie.

But MJ would be the best player in the league. IMO Kawhi is currently the best player, as I would take him over anyone else in a 7-game series -- and he isn't quite as well-rounded as 1998 Jordan. Even at 35.

[nurseryc]

Interesting question. I’d feel comfortable saying top 10, but don’t think he’d be top 5.

Jordan by 1998 was 33-34 years old and relied heavily on mid range by that point. Without his prime athleticism and no reliable 3 point I don’t think his offense would be as good as the cream of the crop offensive players this year like Harden, Giannis, Lebron and Luka. His defense was still pretty good but not super elite really.

So as of now i’d say Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Luka, Davis and Kawhi are definitely ahead of him. Curry and KD would be ahead if they were healthy and playing too. I think he’d be somewhere around the level that 2019 Paul George was at for regular season.

Some will think that’s crazy but it may be generous honestly. MJ that year was at 28.7 ppg on +0.9 relative ts%, and wasn’t a big volume playmaker. There’s just no reason to believe he’d be like a 59-60 ts% scorer that would be required to be a top tier offensive player today. He was still the best player in 98, but was just an extremely weak year for top level talents. Hakeem, Barkley and Drob were all past their primes. Shaq struggled with durability. Duncan and Kobe weren’t in their primes yet, etc.

Yep, you’re right, it’s crazy.

MJ would have been the clear cut best player in the nba bar none.

[No-more-rings]

Interesting question. I’d feel comfortable saying top 10, but don’t think he’d be top 5.

Jordan by 1998 was 33-34 years old and relied heavily on mid range by that point. Without his prime athleticism and no reliable 3 point I don’t think his offense would be as good as the cream of the crop offensive players this year like Harden, Giannis, Lebron and Luka. His defense was still pretty good but not super elite really.

So as of now i’d say Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Luka, Davis and Kawhi are definitely ahead of him. Curry and KD would be ahead if they were healthy and playing too. I think he’d be somewhere around the level that 2019 Paul George was at for regular season.

Some will think that’s crazy but it may be generous honestly. MJ that year was at 28.7 ppg on +0.9 relative ts%, and wasn’t a big volume playmaker. There’s just no reason to believe he’d be like a 59-60 ts% scorer that would be required to be a top tier offensive player today. He was still the best player in 98, but was just an extremely weak year for top level talents. Hakeem, Barkley and Drob were all past their primes. Shaq struggled with durability. Duncan and Kobe weren’t in their primes yet, etc.

Yep, you’re right, it’s crazy.

MJ would have been the clear cut best player in the nba bar none.

And he’d average 40 on 70 ts% right?

[Colbinii]

Interesting question. I’d feel comfortable saying top 10, but don’t think he’d be top 5.

Jordan by 1998 was 33-34 years old and relied heavily on mid range by that point. Without his prime athleticism and no reliable 3 point I don’t think his offense would be as good as the cream of the crop offensive players this year like Harden, Giannis, Lebron and Luka. His defense was still pretty good but not super elite really.

So as of now i’d say Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Luka, Davis and Kawhi are definitely ahead of him. Curry and KD would be ahead if they were healthy and playing too. I think he’d be somewhere around the level that 2019 Paul George was at for regular season.

Some will think that’s crazy but it may be generous honestly. MJ that year was at 28.7 ppg on +0.9 relative ts%, and wasn’t a big volume playmaker. There’s just no reason to believe he’d be like a 59-60 ts% scorer that would be required to be a top tier offensive player today. He was still the best player in 98, but was just an extremely weak year for top level talents. Hakeem, Barkley and Drob were all past their primes. Shaq struggled with durability. Duncan and Kobe weren’t in their primes yet, etc.

Yep, you’re right, it’s crazy.

MJ would have been the clear cut best player in the nba bar none.

And he’d average 40 on 70 ts% right?

50 points and he would never miss a shot. EVER.

[Amares]

Definiately not the best player, not even close in fact. I would see him about top 5

[Colbinii]

Including both regular-season and playoffs, I would say top 3.

Mike would be better today, and his numbers would all go up including efficiency.

Why do we include playoffs when nobody has played in the post-season this year?

I'm not so sure his numbers go up. His minutes per game go down and his shot selection is still a ton of mid-range.

[No-more-rings]

Including both regular-season and playoffs, I would say top 3.

Mike would be better today, and his numbers would all go up including efficiency.

Why do we include playoffs when nobody has played in the post-season this year?

I'm not so sure his numbers go up. His minutes per game go down and his shot selection is still a ton of mid-range.

I think he'd be around 57-58 ts% at best.

[70sFan]

Prime Jordan would dominate and likely be the best player in the league. 1998 though? He was old, he relied heavily on midrange shot and I doubt he'd adjust nearly as well as youger MJ.

Which makes him still likely top 5 candidate, that's how great Jordan was. The best though? I don't see it.

[bledredwine]

Are you guys referring to that guy with Kawhi’s abilities but higher IQ, leadership, more playmaking? The Finals MVP who still led the playoffs in PPG by 2.0 and win shares as well?

If that's the guy, well, he’d be the best.

His stats would be inflated as well.

[70sFan]

Are you guys referring to that guy with Kawhi’s abilities but higher IQ, leadership, more playmaking? The Finals MVP?

If so, we’ll, he’d be the best.

His stats would be inflated as well. I still don’t understand why that much isn’t obvious to posters here. It’s common sense.

1998 Jordan wasn't better playmaker anymore. He was indeed smarter player, but he also didn't have Kawhi three point shot. Even his GOAT-level midrange game was below that in this season because of injury (of finger if I remember correctly).

His stats would be inflated in a way that he'd be more efficient and probably average more assists, but that wouldn't neccessarily make him better player. Old Jordan was the best without the ball and in the post, I'd not want him running plays like most offensive anchors does nowadays.

James averages great numbers too and nobodt calls clear best player in the league anymore and he's younger than Jordan.

[bledredwine]

Are you guys referring to that guy with Kawhi’s abilities but higher IQ, leadership, more playmaking? The Finals MVP?

If so, we’ll, he’d be the best.

His stats would be inflated as well. I still don’t understand why that much isn’t obvious to posters here. It’s common sense.

1998 Jordan wasn't better playmaker anymore. He was indeed smarter player, but he also didn't have Kawhi three point shot. Even his GOAT-level midrange game was below that in this season because of injury (of finger if I remember correctly).

His stats would be inflated in a way that he'd be more efficient and probably average more assists, but that wouldn't neccessarily make him better player. Old Jordan was the best without the ball and in the post, I'd not want him running plays like most offensive anchors does nowadays.

James averages great numbers too and nobodt calls clear best player in the league anymore and he's younger than Jordan.

True, but I also think that this is the first time in my life that you can't tell how good an offensive player someone is by stats anymore. They're so inflated that you never know what to expect. Case in point - Westbrook. There's so much space to operate, that creating is not as intricate of an ordeal.

Jordan was going on a bit of a decline, but was still a better play-maker than Kawhi.
I'm not sure why you think that. He was smart as ever in 1998, and was still the type who made the right plays to win games, even if it required passing.

James averages great numbers 1. Because of context and 2. Because of how incredibly inflated stats are with spread courts and pacing as well. When he played point, his stats were fairly crazy as well. You can't really say what Jordan's stats would be with this boom and multiple rookies/sophmores averaging or putting up ridiculous stats, even triple doubles with 30 ppg. Back in the 90s, the league leader typically had 4 triple doubles.

Really, if you think about that, it's a crazy difference. I still say 98 Jordan is better than anyone today... and I believe that Kawhi is better than anyone today as well. Most importantly, he was still an elite defender.

If you want to win, you take Jordan.

[Amare_1_Knicks]

Top 3 or 4? It’s difficult to say. Harden and Luka are doing remarkable things offensively but even in 98, MJ was a better defender than either guy. Their USG% are sky high with an enormous amount of possessions going through them in this free-flowing offense-saturated era — and quite frankly, it’s unsightly at times(beautiful at others) and has yet to be proven to be conducive to winning.

I don’t know that either guy is better than MJ in 98, despite what the stats may reflect — especially considering Luka has yet to play a playoff game and Harden typically performs more poorly in the PS. Similarly, Giannis had exploitable holes in his game last postseason and how competently he’s shored them up remains to be seen.

Behind Lebron, and if Kawhi returns to his PS level again than he’s ahead as well. So 3-4, depending on what Giannis does.