Kobe Bryant Athleticism

Moderators: penbeast0, trex_8063, PaulieWal, Doctor MJ, Clyde Frazier

McBubbles
Rookie
Posts: 1,124
And1: 1,246
Joined: Jun 16, 2020

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#121 » by McBubbles » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:50 pm

TurinTurambar wrote:
McBubbles wrote:
TurinTurambar wrote:I'm not sure I see the point in bumping a thread just to make back-to-back posts with contradictory statements.


Was this directed at me? If so, where's the contradiction?


In your first post you called Kobe a "Tier 2 athlete," and then in the very next post you describe him as "one of the most athletic shooting guards of all time gifted with height, speed, verticality, endurance and kinaesthetic genius." In an attempt to denounce Kobe fan's efforts to frame him as being anything but one of the best pure athletes in the history of the game (which nobody in this thread has done to this point, so I'm not even sure what this was really for in the first place).


Those things aren't mutually exclusive haha. If Kobe is the 15th-20th most athletic player of all time, he's one of the most athletic shooting guards of all time. He's also not as athletic as the top 5 most athletic people of all time, hence, tier 2 imo.

And I point out the Kobe stan comments solely because it annoys me to no end, thinking about it now is annoying me lol. It is admittedly irrelevant though, u rite.
You said to me “I will give you scissor seven fine quality animation".

You left then but you put flat mediums which were not good before my scissor seven".

What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt?
User avatar
oaktownwarriors87
RealGM
Posts: 13,727
And1: 4,349
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
 

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#122 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:07 pm

LakerLegend wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:Not as athletic as Jordan and Lebron, but still one of the most athletic wings of all time


Pelly24 wrote:Kobe is sometimes kinda mislabeled as being just an "above average athlete" but really he's as functionally athletic as any 2Guard ever besides MJ. He literally had the balance, body control and all around dexterity of a 5'11" halfback. Only thing is he was 6'6" lol. Then he also had the first step of an explosive 6'1" point guard and he had a 40 inch vertical and he had unlimited stamina and amazing durability and ability to play through injuries. To me he's unquestionably the second greatest Shooting Guard ever, and maybe the second greatest guard ever when you really come down to it. His athleticism would make him top 5 most athletic in the game today.


The biggest physical difference between Kobe and Jordan is the hand size, which affects the way you do things on the court in a lot of ways.

As far as pure athleticism there isn't a significant difference between them other than trade-offs like Jordan being stronger and Kobe being more flexible(Phil's words)


Yup. Those huge hands allow you to handle and manipulate the ball with such little effort. Kobe would have been just as good as Jordan if he had those hands.

It's one of the reasons why Leonard is able to emulate Jordan so easily and while a guy like LeBron can't. I think LeBron might has smaller hands than Stephen Curry, which makes LeBron more of a straight line player than these other guys. I don't want to imagine how good LeBron would have been with those hands.
cdubbz wrote:Donte DiVincenzo will outplay Poole this season.
User avatar
LakerLegend
RealGM
Posts: 12,641
And1: 6,915
Joined: Jun 15, 2002
Location: SoCal

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#123 » by LakerLegend » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:35 am

McBubbles wrote:
nolang1 wrote:For Kobe (and also Jordan, just watch The Last Dance), once LeBron rounded out his game as a shooter and post player and it became evident he was going to eclipse them by many statistical measures, there was a concerted effort to downplay their athleticism in order to lean hard on the idea of them as players whose teams won largely because they were alpha male competitors who had the clutch gene (and all those other cliches). But yeah, Kobe had prototype size for the SG position and was as physically gifted as anyone besides Jordan.


This is true. A lot of Kobe stans act like Kobe had cerebral palsy or something the way they talk about him, like he wasn't one of the most athletic shooting guards of all time that was gifted with height, speed, verticality, endurance and kinaesthetic genius. Like the ONLY reason he was successful is because he worked hard and that black mamba-killer mentality-venom-assassin-instinct bs.

The amount of people that imply Kobe would have been the GOAT if he had Jordan's hands, like that was the meaningful distinction between them, is redonkulous.


Phil literally said the key difference betwen them is the hands, is he a Kobe stan?

Greyhound
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,815
And1: 2,722
Joined: Jul 15, 2002
Location: Earth

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#124 » by Greyhound » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:06 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:
Optms wrote:I don't agree with Wade being a better athlete than Kobe. He was certainly much quicker in the open floor and generally faster but that isn't all that athleticism is. Kobe's ability to contort and maneuver his body against the clogged lanes of the old NBA were second to none. IMO, only Michael and Carter could do it as well if not better.


I think Wade’s ability to explode from a standstill is second only to MJ. I think Kobe is probably better At everything else, but it’s the great equalizer and the most important athletic trait for a perimeter player IMO(assuming they have adequate size/length)

Wade at his peak was pretty close to LeBron as a player despite being smaller, less range, a worse passer, not as fast in the open court, and not the leaper LeBron was, and it pretty much all came down to his ability to beat guys off the dribble in the half court, beat help defense to the rim, and cause havoc inside.

I wouldn’t say he’s for sure a better athlete or more useful athlete than Kobe, but I think first step speed can make up for a ton more faults than it is given credit for.

I am with you on this. People forget just how strong and explosive young Wade was.
Don't believe the hype...
User avatar
MyUniBroDavis
General Manager
Posts: 7,730
And1: 4,844
Joined: Jan 14, 2013
   

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#125 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:14 am

LakerLegend wrote:
McBubbles wrote:
nolang1 wrote:For Kobe (and also Jordan, just watch The Last Dance), once LeBron rounded out his game as a shooter and post player and it became evident he was going to eclipse them by many statistical measures, there was a concerted effort to downplay their athleticism in order to lean hard on the idea of them as players whose teams won largely because they were alpha male competitors who had the clutch gene (and all those other cliches). But yeah, Kobe had prototype size for the SG position and was as physically gifted as anyone besides Jordan.


This is true. A lot of Kobe stans act like Kobe had cerebral palsy or something the way they talk about him, like he wasn't one of the most athletic shooting guards of all time that was gifted with height, speed, verticality, endurance and kinaesthetic genius. Like the ONLY reason he was successful is because he worked hard and that black mamba-killer mentality-venom-assassin-instinct bs.

The amount of people that imply Kobe would have been the GOAT if he had Jordan's hands, like that was the meaningful distinction between them, is redonkulous.


Phil literally said the key difference betwen them is the hands, is he a Kobe stan?




So it’s not publically available and I’m not gonna leak it (know the creator tho lol) but if you’ve ever seen cpoe (it’s called something else now idr it) which is efficiency adjusted by play types and stuff, Kobe comes out stuuupid well by it, it’s just the era he played in sucked for his play style relative to other play styles (although he was still incredible efficient in general, when you take into account half court full court separation).

Kobe today in a more modern kind of offense would be really interesting, or even in older eras that rewarded isolation wing play more

Idk about the hands being the difference though, but Kobe was really athletic in awkward positions like Jordan was, kinda unique in that, but Jordan def got up higher and was stronger. I think Kobe’s footwork was better and he could make some stooopid shots no one else could even attempt lmao
iggymcfrack wrote: I have Bird #19 and Kobe #20 on my all-time list and both guys will probably get passed by Jokic by the end of this season.


^^^^ posted January 8 2023 :banghead: :banghead:
Greyhound
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,815
And1: 2,722
Joined: Jul 15, 2002
Location: Earth

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#126 » by Greyhound » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:28 am

feyki wrote:
Zeitgeister wrote:I mean, Kobe was definitely exceptionally athletic but when you compare him to his peers like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Dwayne Wade, I think it's difficult for me to put him above any of them.


He was a much better athlete than Wade.

Better leaper, yes. More agile and
fluid, yes. Better athlete, no way buddy.

Wade was a tad stronger, functionally more powerful, faster, quicker, more explosive.

Better athlete.
Don't believe the hype...
McBubbles
Rookie
Posts: 1,124
And1: 1,246
Joined: Jun 16, 2020

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#127 » by McBubbles » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:49 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
LakerLegend wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:Not as athletic as Jordan and Lebron, but still one of the most athletic wings of all time


Pelly24 wrote:Kobe is sometimes kinda mislabeled as being just an "above average athlete" but really he's as functionally athletic as any 2Guard ever besides MJ. He literally had the balance, body control and all around dexterity of a 5'11" halfback. Only thing is he was 6'6" lol. Then he also had the first step of an explosive 6'1" point guard and he had a 40 inch vertical and he had unlimited stamina and amazing durability and ability to play through injuries. To me he's unquestionably the second greatest Shooting Guard ever, and maybe the second greatest guard ever when you really come down to it. His athleticism would make him top 5 most athletic in the game today.


The biggest physical difference between Kobe and Jordan is the hand size, which affects the way you do things on the court in a lot of ways.

As far as pure athleticism there isn't a significant difference between them other than trade-offs like Jordan being stronger and Kobe being more flexible(Phil's words)


Yup. Those huge hands allow you to handle and manipulate the ball with such little effort. Kobe would have been just as good as Jordan if he had those hands.


It's one of the reasons why Leonard is able to emulate Jordan so easily and while a guy like LeBron can't. I think LeBron might has smaller hands than Stephen Curry, which makes LeBron more of a straight line player than these other guys. I don't want to imagine how good LeBron would have been with those hands.


Jesus Christ, I jumped the gun earlier but I guess me bringing up my grievances about this stupid hand bs was warranted.

No, Kobe's smaller hand size was not the reason he wasn't as good as Michael Jordan, nor was it their only significant physical difference.

MJ had a damn near 10 inch vertical leap advantage at his apex over Kobe, in addition to being faster, stronger, and having better stamina, but you think a 0.5 inch difference in their hands is the meaningful physical distinction between them?

And from a skills perspective MJ had much better shot selection and a better BBIQ both offensively and defensively, so even if Kobe had MJ's physicals he'd likely still be worse.

In regards to hand size, nobody ever thought this / thinks this about any other player ever. It only became relevant because Kobe himself said he wishes he had MJ's hands.

And Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Allev Iverson etc all have average hand size for their height.
You said to me “I will give you scissor seven fine quality animation".

You left then but you put flat mediums which were not good before my scissor seven".

What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt?
McBubbles
Rookie
Posts: 1,124
And1: 1,246
Joined: Jun 16, 2020

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#128 » by McBubbles » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:57 am

LakerLegend wrote:
McBubbles wrote:
nolang1 wrote:For Kobe (and also Jordan, just watch The Last Dance), once LeBron rounded out his game as a shooter and post player and it became evident he was going to eclipse them by many statistical measures, there was a concerted effort to downplay their athleticism in order to lean hard on the idea of them as players whose teams won largely because they were alpha male competitors who had the clutch gene (and all those other cliches). But yeah, Kobe had prototype size for the SG position and was as physically gifted as anyone besides Jordan.


This is true. A lot of Kobe stans act like Kobe had cerebral palsy or something the way they talk about him, like he wasn't one of the most athletic shooting guards of all time that was gifted with height, speed, verticality, endurance and kinaesthetic genius. Like the ONLY reason he was successful is because he worked hard and that black mamba-killer mentality-venom-assassin-instinct bs.

The amount of people that imply Kobe would have been the GOAT if he had Jordan's hands, like that was the meaningful distinction between them, is redonkulous.


Phil literally said the key difference betwen them is the hands, is he a Kobe stan?



I don't know if he's a Kobe stan, I do know he's wrong.

*Cue comment about how my saying I "know more about Kobe than Phil Jackson is ridiculous".

Anyone that thinks a 1 inch difference in hand size is a bigger advantage than speed, strength, stamina and an 8-10 inch vertical increase is wrong.
You said to me “I will give you scissor seven fine quality animation".

You left then but you put flat mediums which were not good before my scissor seven".

What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt?
User avatar
oaktownwarriors87
RealGM
Posts: 13,727
And1: 4,349
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
 

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#129 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:53 pm

McBubbles wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
LakerLegend wrote:


The biggest physical difference between Kobe and Jordan is the hand size, which affects the way you do things on the court in a lot of ways.

As far as pure athleticism there isn't a significant difference between them other than trade-offs like Jordan being stronger and Kobe being more flexible(Phil's words)


Yup. Those huge hands allow you to handle and manipulate the ball with such little effort. Kobe would have been just as good as Jordan if he had those hands.


It's one of the reasons why Leonard is able to emulate Jordan so easily and while a guy like LeBron can't. I think LeBron might has smaller hands than Stephen Curry, which makes LeBron more of a straight line player than these other guys. I don't want to imagine how good LeBron would have been with those hands.


Jesus Christ, I jumped the gun earlier but I guess me bringing up my grievances about this stupid hand bs was warranted.

No, Kobe's smaller hand size was not the reason he wasn't as good as Michael Jordan, nor was it their only significant physical difference.

MJ had a damn near 10 inch vertical leap advantage at his apex over Kobe, in addition to being faster, stronger, and having better stamina, but you think a 0.5 inch difference in their hands is the meaningful physical distinction between them?

And from a skills perspective MJ had much better shot selection and a better BBIQ both offensively and defensively, so even if Kobe had MJ's physicals he'd likely still be worse.

In regards to hand size, nobody ever thought this / thinks this about any other player ever. It only became relevant because Kobe himself said he wishes he had MJ's hands.

And Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Allev Iverson etc all have average hand size for their height.


Yes, you can tell by the way they handle/manipulate the ball the Kobe isn't even close. Jordans hand width is close to 12". That's some of the largest hands the NBA has ever seen, including centers.

And I've never even seen the Kobe quote. Jordan's hand size and how an impacts the game is very well known. Kobe didn't introduce the idea.

Go watch some Jordan videos and watch how his hands allow him to manipulate the ball and go wherever he wants. He's pretty much Kawhi Leonard with Kobe's speed and quickness.
cdubbz wrote:Donte DiVincenzo will outplay Poole this season.
IG2
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,248
And1: 3,690
Joined: Jul 12, 2011

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#130 » by IG2 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:57 pm

LakerLegend wrote:Phil literally said the key difference betwen them is the hands, is he a Kobe stan?



No, but that doesn't mean he is right.

Kobe, while a great athlete, was still slower, jumped lower and was less explosive than MJ in every way. Hand size isn't going to negate that. All that gives Kobe is slightly better finishing ability at the rim. MJ's primary edge over Kobe has always been that he was just as skilled and competitive, while having a notably superior body.
IG2
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,248
And1: 3,690
Joined: Jul 12, 2011

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#131 » by IG2 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:10 pm

McBubbles wrote:
Anyone that thinks a 1 inch difference in hand size is a bigger advantage than speed, strength, stamina and an 8-10 inch vertical increase is wrong.


This.

I think it's just comforting for Kobe fans to think Kobe=MJ if only he had bigger hands. But it's a fantasy, sadly encouraged by Phil's rather poor breakdown of their primary differences.

Bigger hands wouldn't negate the fact that MJ was notably quicker, faster, higher leaper and more explosive than Kobe in every way. Nobody can watch a random game of 1989 MJ, see all the ridiculous **** he's doing and go "yep, that's Kobe if only he had bigger hands" :roll: :roll:

Kobe was a tremendous athlete, but he can only dream of moving the way MJ did till about 1991.
User avatar
LakerLegend
RealGM
Posts: 12,641
And1: 6,915
Joined: Jun 15, 2002
Location: SoCal

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#132 » by LakerLegend » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:22 pm

McBubbles wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
LakerLegend wrote:


The biggest physical difference between Kobe and Jordan is the hand size, which affects the way you do things on the court in a lot of ways.

As far as pure athleticism there isn't a significant difference between them other than trade-offs like Jordan being stronger and Kobe being more flexible(Phil's words)


Yup. Those huge hands allow you to handle and manipulate the ball with such little effort. Kobe would have been just as good as Jordan if he had those hands.


It's one of the reasons why Leonard is able to emulate Jordan so easily and while a guy like LeBron can't. I think LeBron might has smaller hands than Stephen Curry, which makes LeBron more of a straight line player than these other guys. I don't want to imagine how good LeBron would have been with those hands.


Jesus Christ, I jumped the gun earlier but I guess me bringing up my grievances about this stupid hand bs was warranted.

No, Kobe's smaller hand size was not the reason he wasn't as good as Michael Jordan, nor was it their only significant physical difference.

MJ had a damn near 10 inch vertical leap advantage at his apex over Kobe, in addition to being faster, stronger, and having better stamina, but you think a 0.5 inch difference in their hands is the meaningful physical distinction between them?

And from a skills perspective MJ had much better shot selection and a better BBIQ both offensively and defensively, so even if Kobe had MJ's physicals he'd likely still be worse.

In regards to hand size, nobody ever thought this / thinks this about any other player ever. It only became relevant because Kobe himself said he wishes he had MJ's hands.

And Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Allev Iverson etc all have average hand size for their height.

LOL...you claiming others are detached from reality then saying Jordan was capable of jumping nearly the a foot higher than Kobe is one of the the silliest things I’ve seen on these boards.
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,813
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#133 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:54 am

lol the hand thing is cause one day some dudes said it on tv and everyone started copying it. of course their hands are not the reason why jordan is much better than kobe lmao.
User avatar
LakerLegend
RealGM
Posts: 12,641
And1: 6,915
Joined: Jun 15, 2002
Location: SoCal

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#134 » by LakerLegend » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:35 am

BJ Armstrong: Michael was like, “Someone else is going to meet us here [for dinner].” I was like, “Oh, okay.” I didn’t even think to ask who’s coming and lo and behold, you know, Mr. Bryant, the late Kobe Bryant shows up and it was great. It was great because you saw the respect that they both had for one another, but they couldn’t help but turn on the competitive spirit. I didn’t say a word. I just sat there and watched, where they were just saying how the game would be played if they caught the ball [in a certain spot]. “Well if I catch the ball in the left wing with the live dribble, how would you defend me?”

And the detail that they were going over with these abstract ideas, that’s what really caught my attention. Okay, well how you going to catch the ball? Like, who asks those questions? What’s your pivot foot? What’s the score of the game? How would you defend me if I had it here?

They’re geniuses, and the fact that they didn’t have to actually play a game, that they could actually just play it in their mind, to me was way more impressive than actually watching them play. They were able to mentally play this game and it was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen.

And I remember the conclusion of all of this — this went on for quite some time — they only agreed on one thing: That Michael Jordan had bigger hands than Kobe and that was the deciding factor.

Andy Bernstein: That must’ve killed Kobe because he probably didn’t want to...

BJ Armstrong: Well, he didn’t...The one thing about both of them, they never acknowledged a loss. He just admitted that Michael Jordan had bigger hands.


https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2020-08-04/legends-of-sport-podcast-bj-armstrong-kobe-bryant-michael-jordan

So let's not listen to Phil, Jordan, and Kobe themselves but the peanut gallery here.
IG2
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,248
And1: 3,690
Joined: Jul 12, 2011

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#135 » by IG2 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:33 am

LakerLegend wrote:
So let's not listen to Phil, Jordan, and Kobe themselves but the peanut gallery here.


Indeed, let's not listen to them, please.

Anyone who watches both of 'em play and conclude "Yes, hands are what differentiates them most" is an idiot.
ShotCreator
Analyst
Posts: 3,479
And1: 2,328
Joined: May 18, 2014
Location: CF
     

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#136 » by ShotCreator » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:56 am

fanofthegreats wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:
ShotCreator wrote:You say that as if all things are equal in other aspects of athleticism.

Drexler’s top speed, first step, leaping and strength all top Kobe’s.

Drexler was an all-world athlete. The only reason he never peaked higher than Kobe is because his fine motor skills weren’t up to par.

Drexler scored at a high level without a good handle for over a decade. His cut, catch and finish and transition game was just that deadly.

Drexler’s offensive rebounding ability was that of Anthony Davis. Probably higher.

I don’t see Kobe’s athleticism being close to as revered as it’s getting ITT. Nothing really backs up the idea he could top Butler, Drexler or Wade athletically.

He just had better fine motor skills than any of them to complement what athleticism he did have.


I think the motor skills are a part of the athleticism, though, especially if it gives you an edge. That's what gives MJ an athletic edge over people like peak Westbrook.

As far as nothing backing up the idea that he could top those guys, I think Kobe was measured with an official vertical of 38 inches when he was 17 coming out of high school. Butler's was 39 inches after a few years in college. DWade's vertical was 35 inches. Kobe has more poster dunks than both of these guys combined. He also had ridiculous reverse dunks on the baseline. He dunked on Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan and Yao Ming. His dunks easily rival or even exceed Drexler's.

Drexler was fast, but Kobe had a great firs step also. His ability to change directions, as well as his lateral quickness and body control were all superior. Kobe was also an elite defender, and those attributes and his reflexes only helped that.

So idk. Kobe jumped as high or higher than Jimmy Butler, and definitely higher than DWade, and he had way more impressive posters/dunks than either of them. Kobe wasn't as strong as Butler but he was way more agile and definitely had a quicker first step.

Kobe's bounce and quickness are without a doubt elite. His refined athleticism—changing directions, balance, coordination, reflexes—were GOAT levels, and that's what helped give him such an edge.


I don’t see how anyone can look at Jimmy Butler and conclude he’s more impressive athletically than Kobe Bryant.

I can see an argument for Clyde, he’s definitely more impressive in an open court setting. But for all useful basketball functions, it’s clearly Kobe.

Useful basketball functions don’t define athleticism.


Jimmy Butler would kill you in a UFC cage far faster than Kobe. If trained at a young age, I don’t see why Jimmy couldn’t be a top LHW on the planet.

He’d be a better skill player in the NFL.

Hell he’d be a better defender in the NFL.

Kobe ain’t beating him in swimming either.

This is a guy who as a ROOKIE, could guard that absolutely massive version of Miami LeBron without help defense.

And Stephen Curry and James Harden shows the flaw in both your thinking.

Kobe was not goat level in fine motor skills. Or balance, or coordination, or change of direction.

Curry was.

Harden even tops Kobe in those categories. Athletic peak Harden is loaded with athletic advantages over Kobe. 2013 Harden has first step(easily), strength, top speed, brakes, change of direction.

Harden was right behind Miami LeBron as an open court offensive player until he got older and slower.


Kobe was lateral quickness, leaping, other things I’m not feeling generous enough to remember.

Kobe is FAR closer to Harden athletically than the top guys like Butler/Wade/Drexler.
Swinging for the fences.
User avatar
LakerLegend
RealGM
Posts: 12,641
And1: 6,915
Joined: Jun 15, 2002
Location: SoCal

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#137 » by LakerLegend » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:58 am

ShotCreator wrote:
Kobe was not goat level in fine motor skills. Or balance, or coordination, or change of direction.

Curry was.

Harden even tops Kobe in those categories. Athletic peak Harden is loaded with athletic advantages over Kobe. 2013 Harden has first step(easily), strength, top speed, brakes, change of direction.

Harden was right behind Miami LeBron as an open court offensive player until he got older and slower.


Kobe was lateral quickness, leaping, other things I’m not feeling generous enough to remember.

Kobe is FAR closer to Harden athletically than the top guys like Butler/Wade/Drexler.


:o
kobe_vs_jordan
General Manager
Posts: 9,470
And1: 4,476
Joined: Jan 07, 2012
Location: Atl
   

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#138 » by kobe_vs_jordan » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:08 am

Think players like MJ, Carter, Wade, Zion , Lebron etc are the tier 1 athletes in the NBA history . All them bigger, faster, stronger and jump higher than Kobe with his level of body control

Kobe is more a tier 2 athletic type to me. Butler seem like tier 3 to me.
Pelly24
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,532
And1: 4,452
Joined: Aug 02, 2016
     

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#139 » by Pelly24 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:08 am

ShotCreator wrote:
fanofthegreats wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:
I think the motor skills are a part of the athleticism, though, especially if it gives you an edge. That's what gives MJ an athletic edge over people like peak Westbrook.

As far as nothing backing up the idea that he could top those guys, I think Kobe was measured with an official vertical of 38 inches when he was 17 coming out of high school. Butler's was 39 inches after a few years in college. DWade's vertical was 35 inches. Kobe has more poster dunks than both of these guys combined. He also had ridiculous reverse dunks on the baseline. He dunked on Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan and Yao Ming. His dunks easily rival or even exceed Drexler's.

Drexler was fast, but Kobe had a great firs step also. His ability to change directions, as well as his lateral quickness and body control were all superior. Kobe was also an elite defender, and those attributes and his reflexes only helped that.

So idk. Kobe jumped as high or higher than Jimmy Butler, and definitely higher than DWade, and he had way more impressive posters/dunks than either of them. Kobe wasn't as strong as Butler but he was way more agile and definitely had a quicker first step.

Kobe's bounce and quickness are without a doubt elite. His refined athleticism—changing directions, balance, coordination, reflexes—were GOAT levels, and that's what helped give him such an edge.


I don’t see how anyone can look at Jimmy Butler and conclude he’s more impressive athletically than Kobe Bryant.

I can see an argument for Clyde, he’s definitely more impressive in an open court setting. But for all useful basketball functions, it’s clearly Kobe.

Useful basketball functions don’t define athleticism.


Jimmy Butler would kill you in a UFC cage far faster than Kobe. If trained at a young age, I don’t see why Jimmy couldn’t be a top LHW on the planet.

He’d be a better skill player in the NFL.

Hell he’d be a better defender in the NFL.

Kobe ain’t beating him in swimming either.

This is a guy who as a ROOKIE, could guard that absolutely massive version of Miami LeBron without help defense.

And Stephen Curry and James Harden shows the flaw in both your thinking.

Kobe was not goat level in fine motor skills. Or balance, or coordination, or change of direction.

Curry was.

Harden even tops Kobe in those categories. Athletic peak Harden is loaded with athletic advantages over Kobe. 2013 Harden has first step(easily), strength, top speed, brakes, change of direction.

Harden was right behind Miami LeBron as an open court offensive player until he got older and slower.


Kobe was lateral quickness, leaping, other things I’m not feeling generous enough to remember.

Kobe is FAR closer to Harden athletically than the top guys like Butler/Wade/Drexler.



I just don't see it for Jimmy, even though he is a great athlete. Jimmy doesn't have the first step or the leaping ability of Kobe. Kobe's posterized basically every elite center of his era. His hand was regularly toward the top of the square when he'd go up for alley oops. Kobe blew by people easily. Kobe could also burst by defenders at will and he could change directions effortlessly. Jimmy is maybe stronger, but he isn't nearly as flexible and he doesn't have quite the reflexes either. I think James Harden has raw athletic tools that are similar to Kobe's, but he definitely doesn't have the maneuverability to contort his body on the ground and in the air. Kobe is a flat-out acrobat in the air and on the ground. Kobe jumps higher than DWade too.
User avatar
fanofthegreats
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 4,879
And1: 1,401
Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Location: Chicago

Re: Kobe Bryant Athleticism 

Post#140 » by fanofthegreats » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:30 pm

Pelly24 wrote:
ShotCreator wrote:
fanofthegreats wrote:
I don’t see how anyone can look at Jimmy Butler and conclude he’s more impressive athletically than Kobe Bryant.

I can see an argument for Clyde, he’s definitely more impressive in an open court setting. But for all useful basketball functions, it’s clearly Kobe.

Useful basketball functions don’t define athleticism.


Jimmy Butler would kill you in a UFC cage far faster than Kobe. If trained at a young age, I don’t see why Jimmy couldn’t be a top LHW on the planet.

He’d be a better skill player in the NFL.

Hell he’d be a better defender in the NFL.

Kobe ain’t beating him in swimming either.

This is a guy who as a ROOKIE, could guard that absolutely massive version of Miami LeBron without help defense.

And Stephen Curry and James Harden shows the flaw in both your thinking.

Kobe was not goat level in fine motor skills. Or balance, or coordination, or change of direction.

Curry was.

Harden even tops Kobe in those categories. Athletic peak Harden is loaded with athletic advantages over Kobe. 2013 Harden has first step(easily), strength, top speed, brakes, change of direction.

Harden was right behind Miami LeBron as an open court offensive player until he got older and slower.


Kobe was lateral quickness, leaping, other things I’m not feeling generous enough to remember.

Kobe is FAR closer to Harden athletically than the top guys like Butler/Wade/Drexler.



I just don't see it for Jimmy, even though he is a great athlete. Jimmy doesn't have the first step or the leaping ability of Kobe. Kobe's posterized basically every elite center of his era. His hand was regularly toward the top of the square when he'd go up for alley oops. Kobe blew by people easily. Kobe could also burst by defenders at will and he could change directions effortlessly. Jimmy is maybe stronger, but he isn't nearly as flexible and he doesn't have quite the reflexes either. I think James Harden has raw athletic tools that are similar to Kobe's, but he definitely doesn't have the maneuverability to contort his body on the ground and in the air. Kobe is a flat-out acrobat in the air and on the ground. Kobe jumps higher than DWade too.


Laughing at his claims of Kobe having shortcoming in balance and coordination when those are some of the areas that he was CLEARLY top tier in lol.
Image

Sig by Trixx

Return to Player Comparisons