2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#81 » by Homer38 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:19 pm

Giannis of this year remind me of LeBron in 2009.....If Giannis continue to perform like that for the rest of the season and in the playoffs it will be one of the best season in NBA history for a player even if the Bucks don't win the title.

And this is just the start for him!
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#82 » by ardee » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:53 pm

Tatum is at 31-8-3 on 67% TS the last 10 games. Holy moly.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#83 » by HeartBreakKid » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:37 am

Statlanta wrote:
70sFan wrote:The only way to rate defense is to watch tons of footage with paying attention to everything and trying to find good and bad tendencies. It's still very flawed because everyone has subjective feeling on what is positive and what not, but I think that you can't do that any better with defense in basketball.


Just watch the last 5 minutes of a 4th quarter in any game, not a big sample size and horrendous for statistical analysis but enough to get the job done. Usually when both teams are giving it there best on both sides.
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But a lot of players don't give it their best the majority of a game - which would make them bad defenders. So you can't really just watch the last 5 minutes of a 4th quarter.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#84 » by Statlanta » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:31 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
But a lot of players don't give it their best the majority of a game - which would make them bad defenders. So you can't really just watch the last 5 minutes of a 4th quarter.


It's funny a Celtics fan makes this point now given last night.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#85 » by eminence » Sat Mar 7, 2020 3:31 pm

Giannis

LeBron

Kawhi
Harden

Jokic
Doncic
Tatum

(this one not in order)
Gobert
Butler
Davis
Paul
Middleton
Embiid
Lillard
(HM to Zion, he's shooting up the charts and if he'd been around all season maybe he'd be in this tier)
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#86 » by yoyoboy » Mon Mar 9, 2020 1:07 am

Honestly, would it be that crazy to put Paul ahead of Harden in the POY order at this point?

After tonight they’re on-court ratings are roughly equal (+5.8 vs +5.6). Paul is leading a team that’s officially better in the standings now and close in SRS (Rockets will probably be in 3.7 SRS range while Thunder will be around 3.0). Neither of them have missed significant time (3 games for Harden and 1 for Paul). And while Harden looks a lot more impressive by the box score and box-score derived all-in-one metrics I think it’s fair to say that more of his value is captured by the stat sheet and he’s in a system tailor made for him to accumulate gaudy stats. Paul bests him in RAPM - 3.13 versus 2.67.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#87 » by eminence » Mon Mar 9, 2020 2:05 am

I think it'd be pretty crazy to do it at this point, even if it's by design the load for Harden is ridiculous. But it is close enough that I could see it being closed in the playoffs, which is pretty nuts. Westbrook on the season badly overrated around the league. We'll see how the season closes out. At this rate a 5 seed OKC and a 6/7 seed HOU would be hilarious to me. Sorry to all Rockets fans who certainly don't deserve it, but lol.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#88 » by Ambrose » Mon Mar 9, 2020 3:25 am

eminence wrote:Giannis

LeBron

Kawhi
Harden

Jokic
Doncic
Tatum

(this one not in order)
Gobert
Butler
Davis
Paul
Middleton
Embiid
Lillard
(HM to Zion, he's shooting up the charts and if he'd been around all season maybe he'd be in this tier)


I think I'd have the same top 6 as you. Not sure how I'd do it after that.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#89 » by ardee » Mon Mar 9, 2020 6:30 pm

I might put LeBron no. 1 at this rate. It is very very clear he has no problems putting up points against elite opposition which is the flaw most people were picking against him.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#90 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Mar 9, 2020 6:37 pm

ardee wrote:I might put LeBron no. 1 at this rate. It is very very clear he has no problems putting up points against elite opposition which is the flaw most people were picking against him.


it was? That seems like a false narrative. Lebron's playoff scoring has pretty well established the dude could put up points against elite opposition, no?
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#91 » by MisterHibachi » Mon Mar 9, 2020 7:00 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
ardee wrote:I might put LeBron no. 1 at this rate. It is very very clear he has no problems putting up points against elite opposition which is the flaw most people were picking against him.


it was? That seems like a false narrative. Lebron's playoff scoring has pretty well established the dude could put up points against elite opposition, no?


You should've seen the LeBron thread pre all star break.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#92 » by ardee » Mon Mar 9, 2020 7:03 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
ardee wrote:I might put LeBron no. 1 at this rate. It is very very clear he has no problems putting up points against elite opposition which is the flaw most people were picking against him.


it was? That seems like a false narrative. Lebron's playoff scoring has pretty well established the dude could put up points against elite opposition, no?


You should've seen the LeBron thread pre all star break.


Frankly this has happened in 2012, 2015, 2016 and 2019 all as well lol. I think no one doubted him in 2013, 2014 and 2018 after the seasons he had prior.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#93 » by ardee » Mon Mar 9, 2020 7:04 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
ardee wrote:I might put LeBron no. 1 at this rate. It is very very clear he has no problems putting up points against elite opposition which is the flaw most people were picking against him.


it was? That seems like a false narrative. Lebron's playoff scoring has pretty well established the dude could put up points against elite opposition, no?


It wasn't a real flaw but there were people in the LeBron thread claiming it was the whole time.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#94 » by Dr Spaceman » Mon Mar 9, 2020 7:08 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
ardee wrote:I might put LeBron no. 1 at this rate. It is very very clear he has no problems putting up points against elite opposition which is the flaw most people were picking against him.


it was? That seems like a false narrative. Lebron's playoff scoring has pretty well established the dude could put up points against elite opposition, no?


Age + lower body injury + looking slow in December led a lot of people (including myself) to believe he may not have his fastball as an iso scorer anymore. Not that I’d ever bet against LeBron but the iso numbers were atrocious and it’s not inconceivable a 35 year old would be unable to beat elite defenders off the dribble all the time.

That said he has taken my narrative and crushed it so badly with his recent play I’m embarrassed I ever brought it up
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#95 » by Odinn21 » Mon Mar 9, 2020 7:11 pm

I think it's still too early to tell. I still have Giannis ahead of LeBron but the gap is getting closer.

But I'm very curious how high CP3 would be ranked. His box numbers aren't that great compared to his competition on that level. But the Thunder is ahead of the Rockets and on their way to best record since Durant's departure. (I wouldn't assume 2020 Paul is better than 2017 Westbrook, 2017 Thunder were considerably worse.) But his impact, just oof.
The only players I'd certainly rank ahead of him would be Giannis, LeBron, Davis, Doncic, Lillard and Harden. (At this rate, with these froms, I might drop Harden out and ask more questions about that comparison.)
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#96 » by 70sFan » Mon Mar 9, 2020 7:43 pm

Although Paul is amazing this season, I think that people underrate OKC players in general. Adams is excellent starting center and he has his best season so far. Shai plays extremely well on both ends of the court, Dennis has ATG 6th man season and Noel finally learnt how to play basketball. It's not a team full of scrubs carried by Paul, it's good and well built roster with a lot of underrated players.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#97 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Mar 9, 2020 8:20 pm

70sFan wrote:Although Paul is amazing this season, I think that people underrate OKC players in general. Adams is excellent starting center and he has his best season so far. Shai plays extremely well on both ends of the court, Dennis has ATG 6th man season and Noel finally learnt how to play basketball. It's not a team full of scrubs carried by Paul, it's good and well built roster with a lot of underrated players.


Very much so. I knew they would be a playoff team come the off season. The roster has some solid players.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#98 » by NinjaSheppard » Mon Mar 9, 2020 8:34 pm

OKC is really talented but they are developing players at the expense of optimizing win-loss totals. They'd be running a lot more 3 guard lineups otherwise and limiting the minutes of certain players who aren't any good. Bazley getting hurt has helped them a lot because he isn't killing them on the basketball court anymore.

To an extent they are really talented but unlike the other top teams they aren't exactly playing purely to win games.

OKC has 16 wins after trailing to start the 4th. The second best team in that department is Utah with 8. That is in large part because crunch time is when they play their 5 best players.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#99 » by limbo » Mon Mar 9, 2020 8:44 pm

The question is, does Paul have a better roster than:

Kawhi
Westbrook/Harden
Jokic
Luka
Gobert

?

Because he's in the mix with them record-wise...
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#100 » by eminence » Mon Mar 9, 2020 9:22 pm

limbo wrote:The question is, does Paul have a better roster than:

Kawhi
Westbrook/Harden
Jokic
Luka
Gobert

?

Because he's in the mix with them record-wise...


I think they're all probably pretty comparable overall, SGA/Gallo/Adams/Schroder is pretty dang good 2-5 in whatever order you'd put them.

Kawhi - Small edge Clippers. Better bench for the Clippers and healthy PG is clearly a better #2, but he hasn't been all that healthy.

Harden - I might say CP3 actually has a bit better cast. I'm extemely low on Westbrook though. If you're higher on him it's probably a small edge Houston.

Jokic - call it even, better bench for the Nuggets, but 4th/5th guys better for the Thunder.

Doncic - similar case to the Mavs vs the Thunder of having a better bench (and KP is a better #2), but the 3-5 is probably better for the Thunder.

Gobert - my fellow Jazz fans won't like this one, but pretty similar to me, Donovan gets a ton of love as a young guy who can score, but as of today he's a great starter/very low end star. I'd probably overall give a small edge to the Jazz.

Edit: And throwing in the Lakers I'd put them in the half step ahead tier of Clippers/Jazz, great #2 and not terrible after that, but nothing to write home about. And that's why LeBron is my pretty clear #2 (and probably closer to 1 than 3 at this point)
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