The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5)

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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#361 » by LA Bird » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:43 pm

O_6 wrote:LeBron's defense on Giannis and Kawhi in recent games has really been eye opening. I think LeBron has a chance to change the narrative around his defense if he leads the Lakers past the Clips and Bucks while playing the kind of defense on Kawhi he did last night + the kind of D he played on Giannis the last time they faced off.

It's several years too late for that. The credit would probably go to Davis instead. The idea that LeBron stopped playing defense after leaving Miami has long set in and you will find even some of the better analysts like Zach Lowe and Nate Duncan say that even though his 2016 season was one of his best defensive years. LeBron would need to be selected to All Defensive teams again for that tide to change but since the same people who are voting for the awards are the ones pushing the false narrative of him not playing D anymore, I find it highly unlikely that will ever change. LeBron missing out on All Defensive selection in 2015 (because Duncan was listed at forward) and subsequently 2016 has put a huge dent in his defensive reputation that he will likely never recover from regardless of how good he really is playing on defense. He actually had a solid defensive season last year and yet most people were trashing him like he was a Bargnani-level defensive sieve. It wouldn't surprise me if he gets snubbed of All Defensive selection this year despite being #3 in DRPM and being arguably the best defensive player on a top 3 defense.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#362 » by O_6 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:05 pm

nzahir wrote:
O_6 wrote:LeBron's defense on Giannis and Kawhi in recent games has really been eye opening. I think LeBron has a chance to change the narrative around his defense if he leads the Lakers past the Clips and Bucks while playing the kind of defense on Kawhi he did last night + the kind of D he played on Giannis the last time they faced off.

The defense on Kawhi/PG to end the game was obviously the biggest moment, but the individual defense vs. Kawhi on the last play of the 1st half was unbelievable. I believe Reggie Miller called it a "statement" and it really was. IMO that moment is what led Kawhi to be so passive against LeBron late in the game on multiple possessions.

LeBron vs. Kawhi, Lakers vs. Clippers. I NEED this series.

I rather just have the easier way and hope LAC gets knocked out earlier

I could care less who we beat, just want to win it all

Hoping its LAC vs HOU rd 1


I'm not a Lakers fan and I wouldn't call myself a LeBron homer (he's "only" 3rd on my GOAT list at the moment), but I am somebody who is 100% rooting for LeBron to win a title this year. And I know that winning a title is by far the most important thing he can do this year, no matter who he beats (assuming that positive COVID tests don't spread like wildfire and affect too many important players). If LeBron leads the Lakers to a title by beating the Nuggets in the WCF and Celtics in the Finals, it would still be title #4 and the only thing that really matters.

But I feel like a Lakers title where they go through a full-strength Clippers team and full-strength Bucks team with LeBron outplaying Kawhi/Giannis in back to back series while defending them really well would just mean so much to his legacy. At the end of the day, 4 rings = 4 rings, but there would definitely be something extra special if LeBron went through the other 2 guys who were challenging for the best player in the league crown to win his 4th Finals MVP on his 3rd different Franchise as a 35 year old.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#363 » by O_6 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:20 pm

LA Bird wrote:
O_6 wrote:LeBron's defense on Giannis and Kawhi in recent games has really been eye opening. I think LeBron has a chance to change the narrative around his defense if he leads the Lakers past the Clips and Bucks while playing the kind of defense on Kawhi he did last night + the kind of D he played on Giannis the last time they faced off.

It's several years too late for that. The credit would probably go to Davis instead. The idea that LeBron stopped playing defense after leaving Miami has long set in and you will find even some of the better analysts like Zach Lowe and Nate Duncan say that even though his 2016 season was one of his best defensive years. LeBron would need to be selected to All Defensive teams again for that tide to change but since the same people who are voting for the awards are the ones pushing the false narrative of him not playing D anymore, I find it highly unlikely that will ever change. LeBron missing out on All Defensive selection in 2015 (because Duncan was listed at forward) and subsequently 2016 has put a huge dent in his defensive reputation that he will likely never recover from regardless of how good he really is playing on defense. He actually had a solid defensive season last year and yet most people were trashing him like he was a Bargnani-level defensive sieve. It wouldn't surprise me if he gets snubbed of All Defensive selection this year despite being #3 in DRPM and being arguably the best defensive player on a top 3 defense.


Agreed, it might be too late. Trust me, it absolutely pisses me off when people say "he hasn't played defense like this since Miami" when the 2016 playoff run might be the best sustained stretch of defense I've ever seen a wing player have. It really is an absolute shame that people think LeBron's 2018 low-effort defense is how it's been for years, when like you said even last year he was better. Hopefully he makes it to All-Defense this year.

But a lot of the things that LeBron does well on defense (being the defensive QB, amazing rotations, plus rim protection from a wing, general defensive IQ) are things that the average fan just don't appreciate. How the average fan measures defense is 1-on-1 play. And we've now seen LeBron have some absolutely incredible defensive 1-on-1 moments vs. both Giannis and Kawhi. It doesn't seem like a fluke either, both those guys rely on their strength a lot and LeBron is stronger than them and quick enough which throws them off a bit. If LeBron has multiple moments in the playoffs vs. Kawhi that resemble the end of the 1st half/end of game plays, and/or if he has multiple moments vs. Giannis where he just stonewalls him like in their previous matchup... I really think the average mainstream fan would change their view on LeBron's defense and the narrative would shift.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#364 » by homecourtloss » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:21 pm

LA Bird wrote:
O_6 wrote:LeBron's defense on Giannis and Kawhi in recent games has really been eye opening. I think LeBron has a chance to change the narrative around his defense if he leads the Lakers past the Clips and Bucks while playing the kind of defense on Kawhi he did last night + the kind of D he played on Giannis the last time they faced off.

It's several years too late for that. The credit would probably go to Davis instead. The idea that LeBron stopped playing defense after leaving Miami has long set in and you will find even some of the better analysts like Zach Lowe and Nate Duncan say that even though his 2016 season was one of his best defensive years. LeBron would need to be selected to All Defensive teams again for that tide to change but since the same people who are voting for the awards are the ones pushing the false narrative of him not playing D anymore, I find it highly unlikely that will ever change. LeBron missing out on All Defensive selection in 2015 (because Duncan was listed at forward) and subsequently 2016 has put a huge dent in his defensive reputation that he will likely never recover from regardless of how good he really is playing on defense. He actually had a solid defensive season last year and yet most people were trashing him like he was a Bargnani-level defensive sieve. It wouldn't surprise me if he gets snubbed of All Defensive selection this year despite being #3 in DRPM and being arguably the best defensive player on a top 3 defense.


The fact that he wasn’t all NBA defense in 2016 is a joke. You see the nonsense refrain “lebron hasn’t played defense since Miami” thrown around too often.

LeBron, 2016

Top 3% in defending hand offs
Top 7% in defending in ISO
Top 12% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
Top 13% in spot up defense
Top 15% in defending off of screens
Top 16% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
Top 27% in post up defense

I’ve gone through quite a bit of tracking data and still haven’t found a player top 30% in every category let alone a teams primary offense initiator who’s 31 years old.

For 2016 comparisons:

Kawhi, 2016

Top 2% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
Top 10% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
Top 17% in defending in ISO
Top 22% in defending hand offs
Top 25% in spot up defense
Top 29% in post up defense
Bottom 31% in defending off of screens

Draymond, 2016

Top 2% in defending off of screens
Top 11% in post up defense
Top 28% in defending in ISO
Top 25% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
Top 29% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
Top 34% in spot up defense
Bottom 43% in defending hand offs

Kawhi and Draymond were more impactful defenders, but neither had the offensive burden James did. The fact that LeBron can even be in same breath as these two defensively at his age is remarkable.

ISO defense

LeBron: .59 points per possession (PPP), 93rd percentile
Draymond: .68, 85th percentile
Kawhi: .69 PPP, 83rd percentile

Pick and roll ball handler

Kawhi: .65 PPP, 90th percentile
LeBron: .66 PPP, 88th percentile
Draymond: .88, 27th percentile

Pick and roll roll man

Kawhi: .50 PPP, 98th percentile
LeBron: .70 PPP, 84th percentile
Draymond: .77 PPP, 75th percentile

Post defense

Draymond: .65 PPP, 89th percentile
LeBron: .77 PPP, 73rd percentile
Kawhi: .77 PPP, 71st percentile (numbers are rounded so James might have been at .772 and Kawhi at .768 or something)

Spot up defense

LeBron: .80 PPP, 87th percentile
Kawhi: .88 PPP, 75th percentile
Draymond: .91 PPP, 66th percentile

Off screens defense

Draymond: .45 PPP, 98th percentile
LeBron: .74PPP, 85th percentile
Kawhi: 1.05 PPP, 31st percentile

Hand offs defense

LeBron: .49 97th percentile
Kawhi: .72 PPP, 78th percentile
Draymond: .91 PPP, 43rd percentile

In his thirteenth season playing on a team that's otherwise not that good defensively, James quietly put together a great, great defensive season because he had to since his team really had maybe three other plus defenders. Unlike Kawhi and Draymond who were subpar in some categories, James was at worst in the 73rd percentile.

Green:

Overall: 39.7 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 45.5%, -5.8%

Kawhi

Overall: 38.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 44.8%, -6.4%

LeBron:

Overall: 38.4 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 44.7%, -6.3

Then lastly, LeBron’s crazy playoffs defense:

LeBron 2016 playoffs defense:

Overall: 31.9 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 45.9%, -14.0%
Threes: 24.1 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 36.7%, -12. 6%
Twos: 36.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 50.5%, -13.9%
<6ft: 37.9 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 61.3%, -23.5%

LeBron Finals defense:

Overall: 31.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 47.9%, -16.3%
Threes: 29.0 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 39.6%, -10.6%
Twos: 33.3 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 53.6%, -20.3%
<6ft: 38.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 63.6%, -25.1%

LeBron defense In the finals’ last three games:

Overall: 19.4 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 47.4, -28.4%
Threes: 12.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 40.7%, -28.2%
Twos: 25 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 52.4%, -27.4%
<6ft: 15.4 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 60.6%, -45.2
OdomFan wrote:I'd rather have Ray Allen on my team [over Curry].


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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#365 » by thebigbird » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:43 pm

limbo wrote:
thebigbird wrote:This is a different season, though. No clubs, no girls, no distractions. Just ball. And the thing is, he doesn’t need to be great. He just needs to not be as bad as Rondo, and I think he’ll be able to do that.


If i had a nickle every time i heard that about a player with a similar type of profile/history.

I'm not eliminating the possibility of him being a factor, i'm just saying i won't assume it automatically, until i see it in the games that actually count.

We haven’t ever had a season like this before. There’s nothing for them to do in the bubble but hoop. Don’t forget that Rondo was legitimately the worst point guard in the entire NBA this season. He killed momentum countless times. If Waiters is better than that, this is an upgrade. I think there’s a pretty good chance he will be.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#366 » by MyUniBroDavis » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:06 pm

limbo wrote:jamal crawford




But waiters isnt a horrible defender, +our playmaking creation ability outside of bron is literally 0, not just not very good

Clarkson rose and deron


Havent clarkson and rose gone off this year? Either way, theres a difference between creating ur offense within that cavs team, and just being able to competently run the pick and roll with the best guy to rin the pick and roll with in the NBA.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#367 » by limbo » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:18 pm

Guys, i realize you all want Waitress to work out badly (and yes, i'm spelling his name like that intentionally, for comedic purposes) , so that it increases LeBron's chances of winning a ring, but geez :D I've never seen Waitress (coming off the waivers list one week ago, mind you) be defended with such conviction at any point in my lifetime watching the NBA...

Also, this is way too much quibbling over a subject that deals with no concrete data and is mostly a speculative projection...

This is a wait and see type of scenario... But i'll allow you guys to come back and tell me ''i told you so'', which is a rare feat :P
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#368 » by Homer38 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:21 pm

Waiters has been sign by the last in early march not 1 or 2 weeks ago....It was J.R Smith 2 or 3 week ago.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#369 » by Homer38 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:21 pm

Waiter don't need to be the savior for the lakers,he just need to be fine.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#370 » by nzahir » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:41 pm

O_6 wrote:
nzahir wrote:
O_6 wrote:LeBron's defense on Giannis and Kawhi in recent games has really been eye opening. I think LeBron has a chance to change the narrative around his defense if he leads the Lakers past the Clips and Bucks while playing the kind of defense on Kawhi he did last night + the kind of D he played on Giannis the last time they faced off.

The defense on Kawhi/PG to end the game was obviously the biggest moment, but the individual defense vs. Kawhi on the last play of the 1st half was unbelievable. I believe Reggie Miller called it a "statement" and it really was. IMO that moment is what led Kawhi to be so passive against LeBron late in the game on multiple possessions.

LeBron vs. Kawhi, Lakers vs. Clippers. I NEED this series.

I rather just have the easier way and hope LAC gets knocked out earlier

I could care less who we beat, just want to win it all

Hoping its LAC vs HOU rd 1


I'm not a Lakers fan and I wouldn't call myself a LeBron homer (he's "only" 3rd on my GOAT list at the moment), but I am somebody who is 100% rooting for LeBron to win a title this year. And I know that winning a title is by far the most important thing he can do this year, no matter who he beats (assuming that positive COVID tests don't spread like wildfire and affect too many important players). If LeBron leads the Lakers to a title by beating the Nuggets in the WCF and Celtics in the Finals, it would still be title #4 and the only thing that really matters.

But I feel like a Lakers title where they go through a full-strength Clippers team and full-strength Bucks team with LeBron outplaying Kawhi/Giannis in back to back series while defending them really well would just mean so much to his legacy. At the end of the day, 4 rings = 4 rings, but there would definitely be something extra special if LeBron went through the other 2 guys who were challenging for the best player in the league crown to win his 4th Finals MVP on his 3rd different Franchise as a 35 year old.

See, that is what it should be, but most people don't care about the details

Kawhi won a ring last year. Did it matter that GS didn't have its best player and lost Klay for a couple games and even had Looney hurt for some (not a big deal there)?

Same for Curry in 2015.

Why does Lebron never get to face depleted injured teams?
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#371 » by nzahir » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:41 pm

Joey Wheeler wrote:
nzahir wrote:
O_6 wrote:LeBron's defense on Giannis and Kawhi in recent games has really been eye opening. I think LeBron has a chance to change the narrative around his defense if he leads the Lakers past the Clips and Bucks while playing the kind of defense on Kawhi he did last night + the kind of D he played on Giannis the last time they faced off.

The defense on Kawhi/PG to end the game was obviously the biggest moment, but the individual defense vs. Kawhi on the last play of the 1st half was unbelievable. I believe Reggie Miller called it a "statement" and it really was. IMO that moment is what led Kawhi to be so passive against LeBron late in the game on multiple possessions.

LeBron vs. Kawhi, Lakers vs. Clippers. I NEED this series.

I rather just have the easier way and hope LAC gets knocked out earlier

I could care less who we beat, just want to win it all

Hoping its LAC vs HOU rd 1


These are contradictory wishes, Houston would have a better chance of upsetting the Lakers than the Clippers would.

You think we would have an easier time with LAC than with Hou?
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#372 » by MyUniBroDavis » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:59 pm

nzahir wrote:
O_6 wrote:
nzahir wrote:I rather just have the easier way and hope LAC gets knocked out earlier

I could care less who we beat, just want to win it all

Hoping its LAC vs HOU rd 1


I'm not a Lakers fan and I wouldn't call myself a LeBron homer (he's "only" 3rd on my GOAT list at the moment), but I am somebody who is 100% rooting for LeBron to win a title this year. And I know that winning a title is by far the most important thing he can do this year, no matter who he beats (assuming that positive COVID tests don't spread like wildfire and affect too many important players). If LeBron leads the Lakers to a title by beating the Nuggets in the WCF and Celtics in the Finals, it would still be title #4 and the only thing that really matters.

But I feel like a Lakers title where they go through a full-strength Clippers team and full-strength Bucks team with LeBron outplaying Kawhi/Giannis in back to back series while defending them really well would just mean so much to his legacy. At the end of the day, 4 rings = 4 rings, but there would definitely be something extra special if LeBron went through the other 2 guys who were challenging for the best player in the league crown to win his 4th Finals MVP on his 3rd different Franchise as a 35 year old.

See, that is what it should be, but most people don't care about the details

Kawhi won a ring last year. Did it matter that GS didn't have its best player and lost Klay for a couple games and even had Looney hurt for some (not a big deal there)?

Same for Curry in 2015.

Why does Lebron never get to face depleted injured teams?


I mean if bron beat okc instead of the warriors in 2016 he prolly isnt in most peoples top 5s. If the warriors were healthy kawhi wouldve gotten way more praise
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#373 » by nzahir » Sat Aug 1, 2020 12:06 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
nzahir wrote:
O_6 wrote:
I'm not a Lakers fan and I wouldn't call myself a LeBron homer (he's "only" 3rd on my GOAT list at the moment), but I am somebody who is 100% rooting for LeBron to win a title this year. And I know that winning a title is by far the most important thing he can do this year, no matter who he beats (assuming that positive COVID tests don't spread like wildfire and affect too many important players). If LeBron leads the Lakers to a title by beating the Nuggets in the WCF and Celtics in the Finals, it would still be title #4 and the only thing that really matters.

But I feel like a Lakers title where they go through a full-strength Clippers team and full-strength Bucks team with LeBron outplaying Kawhi/Giannis in back to back series while defending them really well would just mean so much to his legacy. At the end of the day, 4 rings = 4 rings, but there would definitely be something extra special if LeBron went through the other 2 guys who were challenging for the best player in the league crown to win his 4th Finals MVP on his 3rd different Franchise as a 35 year old.

See, that is what it should be, but most people don't care about the details

Kawhi won a ring last year. Did it matter that GS didn't have its best player and lost Klay for a couple games and even had Looney hurt for some (not a big deal there)?

Same for Curry in 2015.

Why does Lebron never get to face depleted injured teams?


I mean if bron beat okc instead of the warriors in 2016 he prolly isnt in most peoples top 5s. If the warriors were healthy kawhi wouldve gotten way more praise

Maybe, but casual fans give Kobe credit for 5 rings (though he has 2 fmvps only) and the first 3 teams he beat were not special

Indy with Old Reggie and guys like Jalen, Smits and other nice players, but no true superstar
AI sixers who had 1 real guy who could even score, bad spacing
Nets with Kidd, Martin, Kittles, and young RJ?

The 2010 celtics were a good team, thy lost Perkins, but still a good team
The 2009 magic were good, but nothing special. They got red hot in the ECF and the Cavs were so weak besides Lebron. But that Magic team also choked 2 games away, so maybe I don't remember how good they were
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#374 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sat Aug 1, 2020 12:10 am

nzahir wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
nzahir wrote:See, that is what it should be, but most people don't care about the details

Kawhi won a ring last year. Did it matter that GS didn't have its best player and lost Klay for a couple games and even had Looney hurt for some (not a big deal there)?

Same for Curry in 2015.

Why does Lebron never get to face depleted injured teams?


I mean if bron beat okc instead of the warriors in 2016 he prolly isnt in most peoples top 5s. If the warriors were healthy kawhi wouldve gotten way more praise

Maybe, but casual fans give Kobe credit for 5 rings (though he has 2 fmvps only) and the first 3 teams he beat were not special

Indy with Old Reggie and guys like Jalen, Smits and other nice players, but no true superstar
AI sixers who had 1 real guy who could even score, bad spacing
Nets with Kidd, Martin, Kittles, and young RJ?

The 2010 celtics were a good team, thy lost Perkins, but still a good team
The 2009 magic were good, but nothing special. They got red hot in the ECF and the Cavs were so weak besides Lebron. But that Magic team also choked 2 games away, so maybe I don't remember how good they were


I mean theres a difference between ring count and how much each ring is worth, lebrons 2016 ring is prolly "worth the most" for any player ever

Im way higher on kobe than most anyw lol
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#375 » by nzahir » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:31 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
nzahir wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
I mean if bron beat okc instead of the warriors in 2016 he prolly isnt in most peoples top 5s. If the warriors were healthy kawhi wouldve gotten way more praise

Maybe, but casual fans give Kobe credit for 5 rings (though he has 2 fmvps only) and the first 3 teams he beat were not special

Indy with Old Reggie and guys like Jalen, Smits and other nice players, but no true superstar
AI sixers who had 1 real guy who could even score, bad spacing
Nets with Kidd, Martin, Kittles, and young RJ?

The 2010 celtics were a good team, thy lost Perkins, but still a good team
The 2009 magic were good, but nothing special. They got red hot in the ECF and the Cavs were so weak besides Lebron. But that Magic team also choked 2 games away, so maybe I don't remember how good they were


I mean theres a difference between ring count and how much each ring is worth, lebrons 2016 ring is prolly "worth the most" for any player ever

Im way higher on kobe than most anyw lol

How high on Kobe?

I'm higher than him on avg people here, lower than avg fans in LA
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#376 » by JordansBulls » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:35 am

nzahir wrote:
O_6 wrote:
nzahir wrote:I rather just have the easier way and hope LAC gets knocked out earlier

I could care less who we beat, just want to win it all

Hoping its LAC vs HOU rd 1


I'm not a Lakers fan and I wouldn't call myself a LeBron homer (he's "only" 3rd on my GOAT list at the moment), but I am somebody who is 100% rooting for LeBron to win a title this year. And I know that winning a title is by far the most important thing he can do this year, no matter who he beats (assuming that positive COVID tests don't spread like wildfire and affect too many important players). If LeBron leads the Lakers to a title by beating the Nuggets in the WCF and Celtics in the Finals, it would still be title #4 and the only thing that really matters.

But I feel like a Lakers title where they go through a full-strength Clippers team and full-strength Bucks team with LeBron outplaying Kawhi/Giannis in back to back series while defending them really well would just mean so much to his legacy. At the end of the day, 4 rings = 4 rings, but there would definitely be something extra special if LeBron went through the other 2 guys who were challenging for the best player in the league crown to win his 4th Finals MVP on his 3rd different Franchise as a 35 year old.

See, that is what it should be, but most people don't care about the details

Kawhi won a ring last year. Did it matter that GS didn't have its best player and lost Klay for a couple games and even had Looney hurt for some (not a big deal there)?

Same for Curry in 2015.

Why does Lebron never get to face depleted injured teams?


Off hand I remember that Bogut was out games 6 and 7 in 2016. Draymond got suspended in game 5. Iggy was playing with a bad back. Jameer was out in 2009 for the series. Butler was out for the Mavs in 2011. Rose was out in 2012 for the playoffs which was the only reason Miami advanced as the #1 seed lost it's best player making it easy for the Heat. Bulls were missing like 3-4 starters in 2013 in that series as well.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#377 » by Statlanta » Sat Aug 1, 2020 2:48 am

nzahir wrote:

Why does Lebron never get to face depleted injured teams?


The 2nd best player of all time doesn't need to beat depleted injured teams.
Dwyane Wade should have never got FTs at the end of the 2006 NBA Finals Game 5
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#378 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sat Aug 1, 2020 3:52 am

nzahir wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
nzahir wrote:Maybe, but casual fans give Kobe credit for 5 rings (though he has 2 fmvps only) and the first 3 teams he beat were not special

Indy with Old Reggie and guys like Jalen, Smits and other nice players, but no true superstar
AI sixers who had 1 real guy who could even score, bad spacing
Nets with Kidd, Martin, Kittles, and young RJ?

The 2010 celtics were a good team, thy lost Perkins, but still a good team
The 2009 magic were good, but nothing special. They got red hot in the ECF and the Cavs were so weak besides Lebron. But that Magic team also choked 2 games away, so maybe I don't remember how good they were


I mean theres a difference between ring count and how much each ring is worth, lebrons 2016 ring is prolly "worth the most" for any player ever

Im way higher on kobe than most anyw lol

How high on Kobe?

I'm higher than him on avg people here, lower than avg fans in LA


Hes in my top ten, maybe top 8. I think if he played in todays era he would be hilariously dominant
oof
nzahir
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#379 » by nzahir » Sat Aug 1, 2020 4:29 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
nzahir wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
I mean theres a difference between ring count and how much each ring is worth, lebrons 2016 ring is prolly "worth the most" for any player ever

Im way higher on kobe than most anyw lol

How high on Kobe?

I'm higher than him on avg people here, lower than avg fans in LA


Hes in my top ten, maybe top 8. I think if he played in todays era he would be hilariously dominant

Thats fair, could argue a bit higher or lower depending what your metrics are and what you need
nzahir
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5) 

Post#380 » by nzahir » Sat Aug 1, 2020 4:38 am

JordansBulls wrote:
nzahir wrote:
O_6 wrote:
I'm not a Lakers fan and I wouldn't call myself a LeBron homer (he's "only" 3rd on my GOAT list at the moment), but I am somebody who is 100% rooting for LeBron to win a title this year. And I know that winning a title is by far the most important thing he can do this year, no matter who he beats (assuming that positive COVID tests don't spread like wildfire and affect too many important players). If LeBron leads the Lakers to a title by beating the Nuggets in the WCF and Celtics in the Finals, it would still be title #4 and the only thing that really matters.

But I feel like a Lakers title where they go through a full-strength Clippers team and full-strength Bucks team with LeBron outplaying Kawhi/Giannis in back to back series while defending them really well would just mean so much to his legacy. At the end of the day, 4 rings = 4 rings, but there would definitely be something extra special if LeBron went through the other 2 guys who were challenging for the best player in the league crown to win his 4th Finals MVP on his 3rd different Franchise as a 35 year old.

See, that is what it should be, but most people don't care about the details

Kawhi won a ring last year. Did it matter that GS didn't have its best player and lost Klay for a couple games and even had Looney hurt for some (not a big deal there)?

Same for Curry in 2015.

Why does Lebron never get to face depleted injured teams?


Off hand I remember that Bogut was out games 6 and 7 in 2016. Draymond got suspended in game 5. Iggy was playing with a bad back. Jameer was out in 2009 for the series. Butler was out for the Mavs in 2011. Rose was out in 2012 for the playoffs which was the only reason Miami advanced as the #1 seed lost it's best player making it easy for the Heat. Bulls were missing like 3-4 starters in 2013 in that series as well.

Bogut is non starter
Draymond was 1 game and warranted. Love missed 2 games and played basically concussed in 2016.
I did forget about Caron b/c he was out for those playoffs
I don't know if Bulls would have mattered, but who knows

None of those are as impactful as Kyrie and Love out in 2015 for the whole series in the finals
Hughes missed 2 or 3 games in 2007 finals and avgd like 1 point that series. Wouldn't have mattered
Bosh out for Indi 2012, got hurt in game 1 and most of Boston 2012 (i think came back G6 and limited min)
Ofc Wade had huge knee issues from 2011 on
Love missing game 7 of the ecf with that depleted cavs team.
Hill missed some games in 2018 (not as big as others), etc etc

There are many small ones still, but I am mostly talking about big ones, in big moments

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