Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo?

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Iverson or Melo

Iverson
18
55%
Melo
15
45%
 
Total votes: 33

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Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#1 » by azcatz11 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:56 pm

Thoughts?
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#2 » by D.Brasco » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:48 am

People will argue for Melo on advanced stats but I couldn't see Melo take a team as far AI did in 2001, putting them on his back offensively.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#3 » by kendogg » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:10 am

Iverson easily. You can't just compare PPG and FG%. The entire 76ers offense was built around Iverson, just like Harden on the Rockets. Is Harden a bad scorer for shooting 43% this season? Iverson's best offensive teammate in 2001 was Aaron McKie. He didn't even have a guy like Roco to kick it out for 3's. Literally triple teamed every time he put the ball on the floor. Somehow he still took a game off one of the best teams of all time (2001 Lakers) despite having to play with Eric Snow and No hands Mutombo. An elite defensive squad but Iverson was their entire offense. The 2020 Rockets still wish they were as good as the 2001 76ers though.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#4 » by No-more-rings » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:57 pm

I don’t separate “pure scorer” and “better scorer” because I don’t see what the difference is. Ai was a bit better as a scorer I believe, a lot of his prime came in an era not very friendly for guards especially one that’s 5’10 or whatever. When the rule change took effect, Ai’s 06 was a better scoring season than Melo ever put up. Both usually had either crap or mediocre scoring efficiency in the playoffs, but Ai’s felt more impactful.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#5 » by picko » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:04 pm

There was nothing pure about AI's scoring. It was a lot of bloody hard work that wasn't always helpful to his team.

Melo was far more likely to score within the confines of a traditional offense.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#6 » by henshao » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:12 pm

in a situation where you have the perfect team except for one guy to get you points and nothing else I would take AI
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#7 » by hondohandles » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:14 pm

The only correct answer is 'neither.'
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#8 » by Dmkorc23 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:13 am

hondohandles wrote:The only correct answer is 'neither.'


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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#9 » by HeartBreakKid » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:46 pm

kendogg wrote:Iverson easily. You can't just compare PPG and FG%. The entire 76ers offense was built around Iverson, just like Harden on the Rockets. Is Harden a bad scorer for shooting 43% this season? Iverson's best offensive teammate in 2001 was Aaron McKie. He didn't even have a guy like Roco to kick it out for 3's. Literally triple teamed every time he put the ball on the floor. Somehow he still took a game off one of the best teams of all time (2001 Lakers) despite having to play with Eric Snow and No hands Mutombo. An elite defensive squad but Iverson was their entire offense. The 2020 Rockets still wish they were as good as the 2001 76ers though.


Huh? James Harden never had high FG% even when he had good offensive teams (which is basically every year) - with CP3 his FG% is was only 1 % better and they were one of the best offenses of all time. He only had one year where he had very high FG%.

James Harden doesn't have a playing style that revolves around high FG%, because FG% isn't the only efficient way to score. Your argument that being the only great offensive player on a team might lower your efficiency makes sense - but citing James Harden on the Rockets as a comparison to make Iverson look better (plus favorably cherry picking his 2001 season which most people who prop up Iverson do, because realistically if he did play "winning style" of basketball then 2001 wouldn't be an outlier) doesn't make sense.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#10 » by penbeast0 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:52 pm

kendogg wrote:Iverson easily. You can't just compare PPG and FG%. The entire 76ers offense was built around Iverson, just like Harden on the Rockets. Is Harden a bad scorer for shooting 43% this season? Iverson's best offensive teammate in 2001 was Aaron McKie. He didn't even have a guy like Roco to kick it out for 3's. Literally triple teamed every time he put the ball on the floor. Somehow he still took a game off one of the best teams of all time (2001 Lakers) despite having to play with Eric Snow and No hands Mutombo. An elite defensive squad but Iverson was their entire offense. The 2020 Rockets still wish they were as good as the 2001 76ers though.



Putting team on the back is his role, not necessarily his ability to do that role. You don't think Carmelo could be as effective in that role, then explain why. And Harden's efficiency was terrific, his 2 point shooting ability is the least part of his game.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#11 » by kendogg » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:55 pm

Melo is just as good as Iverson in an iso situation, but Iverson is better at navigating double and triple teams. Iverson could take a mediocre team further than Melo can. On a stacked team, Melo might have more merits just because he doesn't have the size disadvantage that AI does.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#12 » by bledredwine » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:28 pm

Melo really ruined his legacy when he joined the Knicks. Many players were calling Melo the hardest to guard and he was in the debate for best scorer during his Nuggets reign.

Melo probably has the most beautiful triple threat and pull-up that I’ve seen.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#13 » by Threetimes10 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:13 pm

kendogg wrote:Iverson easily. You can't just compare PPG and FG%. The entire 76ers offense was built around Iverson, just like Harden on the Rockets. Is Harden a bad scorer for shooting 43% this season? Iverson's best offensive teammate in 2001 was Aaron McKie. He didn't even have a guy like Roco to kick it out for 3's. Literally triple teamed every time he put the ball on the floor. Somehow he still took a game off one of the best teams of all time (2001 Lakers) despite having to play with Eric Snow and No hands Mutombo. An elite defensive squad but Iverson was their entire offense. The 2020 Rockets still wish they were as good as the 2001 76ers though.


Yea you use ppg and rTS%. Iverson isn't on Harden's level as a scorer or offensive centerpiece.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#14 » by Jaivl » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:02 pm

kendogg wrote:Iverson (...) Literally triple teamed every time he put the ball on the floor.

Are you sure that's the correct use of the word "literally"?

kendogg wrote:Somehow he still took a game off one of the best teams of all time (2001 Lakers) despite having to play with Eric Snow and No hands Mutombo.

Not "somehow", but randomness inherent to the game. Same reason upsets happen all the time in single-game elimination tournaments.

At the end of the series, 76ers were outscored by 7.4 points per 100, pretty much the only team that wasn't obliterated. Considering the circumstances, his team did fine over the course of the whole series - that's a much more valuable indicator than "getting a win" (1 game sample), and what I'd use if I wanted to make some kind of argument for him.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#15 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:26 pm

Jaivl wrote:
kendogg wrote:Iverson (...) Literally triple teamed every time he put the ball on the floor.

Are you sure that's the correct use of the word "literally"?

kendogg wrote:Somehow he still took a game off one of the best teams of all time (2001 Lakers) despite having to play with Eric Snow and No hands Mutombo.

Not "somehow", but randomness inherent to the game. Same reason upsets happen all the time in single-game elimination tournaments.

At the end of the series, 76ers were outscored by 7.4 points per 100, pretty much the only team that wasn't obliterated. Considering the circumstances, his team did fine over the course of the whole series - that's a much more valuable indicator than "getting a win" (1 game sample), and what I'd use if I wanted to make some kind of argument for him.


It's also a good indicator that his team wasn't nearly as bad as advertised, especially for the Eastern Conference.

Good defense, all-nba center, all time coach - hmm...those things typically do quite well in the post season. But 10000% of the credit goes to Allen Iverson.
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#16 » by bon » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm

Haven't actually seen anyone explain what makes Iverson a better scorer than Melo besides one playoff run where he didn't score that efficiently anyway.

Pound for pound you could say Iverson for sure but if I'm purely rating scoring skills I'll have to take Carmelo. Better in the midrange, from 3 and can post up. Iverson has speed and handles over him
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Re: Pure Scorer: Iverson or Melo? 

Post#17 » by penbeast0 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:09 pm

Jaivl wrote:
kendogg wrote:Iverson (...) Literally triple teamed every time he put the ball on the floor.

Are you sure that's the correct use of the word "literally"?...


I think literally in this case means it's like literature, or fiction if you would.
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