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Threetimes10 wrote:

SNPA wrote:Lol. You seem mad.

Do you expect everyone to write a full dissertation for each post? Your points are rubbish. I hold several science degrees. Stop drinking. It’s late.

All those degrees and you can't differentiate between "too" and "to"? Did you get them from Amazon? You write like Kyrie Irving

I really hate standing up for quacks, but he's using to properly here.

freethedevil wrote:

Threetimes10 wrote:

SNPA wrote:Lol. You seem mad.

Do you expect everyone to write a full dissertation for each post? Your points are rubbish. I hold several science degrees. Stop drinking. It’s late.

All those degrees and you can't differentiate between "too" and "to"? Did you get them from Amazon? You write like Kyrie Irving

I really hate standing up for quacks, but he's using to properly here.

Thanks bro!

I hope you can keep those pesky kids of your yard.

A title this year would help LeBron's case a lot. Its pretty remarkable that even outside his athletic prime, he's still able to contend for best player in the league and his team is probably the favorite to win the title. And this Laker team is not a super team. A 4th title with this team earns a lot of respect if he can pull it off. I know MJ also won finals MVP at 35 but LeBron has a lot more miles which is in someway pretty impressive.

I will say AD is getting a lot of disrespect from people in general but I do think LeBron is the engine of that team and would most likely win finals MVP if they do make it,

SeniorWalker wrote:A title this year would help LeBron's case a lot. Its pretty remarkable that even outside his athletic prime, he's still able to contend for best player in the league and his team is probably the favorite to win the title. And this Laker team is not a super team. A 4th title with this team earns a lot of respect if he can pull it off. I know MJ also won finals MVP at 35 but LeBron has a lot more miles which is in someway pretty impressive.

I will say AD is getting a lot of disrespect from people in general but I do think LeBron is the engine of that team and would most likely win finals MVP if they do make it,

In 2018-2019, LeBron on the Lakers with no AD = Lakers miss playoffs and LeBron quits on the team, decides to end his season early.

In 2019-2020, with Anthony Davis (and Danny Green and Dwight Howard and Avery Bradley) added to the Lakers to team up with LeBron = Lakers win the title? If that happens, not sure that really helps LeBron's legacy. If anything, it shows how good AD is. 

This team is not a super team? Which team on paper has more talent than the Lakers this year? Nobody. What other team in the league has 2 guys who are consensus top 5 or 6 players in the league? Which team in the league has more depth in terms of number of quality players capable of being a strong contributor to a winning NBA team? Nobody.

Hal14 wrote:

SeniorWalker wrote:A title this year would help LeBron's case a lot. Its pretty remarkable that even outside his athletic prime, he's still able to contend for best player in the league and his team is probably the favorite to win the title. And this Laker team is not a super team. A 4th title with this team earns a lot of respect if he can pull it off. I know MJ also won finals MVP at 35 but LeBron has a lot more miles which is in someway pretty impressive.

I will say AD is getting a lot of disrespect from people in general but I do think LeBron is the engine of that team and would most likely win finals MVP if they do make it,

In 2018-2019, LeBron on the Lakers with no AD = Lakers miss playoffs and LeBron quits on the team, decides to end his season early.

In 2019-2020, with Anthony Davis (and Danny Green and Dwight Howard and Avery Bradley) added to the Lakers to team up with LeBron = Lakers win the title? If that happens, not sure that really helps LeBron's legacy. If anything, it shows how good AD is. 

It's stupid to judge LBJ on only one season since he was not in good health in the second half of the season and had missed by far a career high 27 games ... Especially he had made the final 8 years in a row before 2019, including one with a bad roster in 2018

No doubt, Davis is one of the big reasons for the success of the lakers, but Davis also missed the playoffs last year.

Homer38 wrote:

Hal14 wrote:

SeniorWalker wrote:A title this year would help LeBron's case a lot. Its pretty remarkable that even outside his athletic prime, he's still able to contend for best player in the league and his team is probably the favorite to win the title. And this Laker team is not a super team. A 4th title with this team earns a lot of respect if he can pull it off. I know MJ also won finals MVP at 35 but LeBron has a lot more miles which is in someway pretty impressive.

I will say AD is getting a lot of disrespect from people in general but I do think LeBron is the engine of that team and would most likely win finals MVP if they do make it,

In 2018-2019, LeBron on the Lakers with no AD = Lakers miss playoffs and LeBron quits on the team, decides to end his season early.

In 2019-2020, with Anthony Davis (and Danny Green and Dwight Howard and Avery Bradley) added to the Lakers to team up with LeBron = Lakers win the title? If that happens, not sure that really helps LeBron's legacy. If anything, it shows how good AD is. 

It's stupid to judge LBJ on only one season since he was not in good health in the second half of the season and had missed by far a career high 27 games ... Especially he had made the final 8 years in a row before 2019, including one with a bad roster in 2018

No doubt, Davis is one of the big reasons for the success of the lakers, but Davis also missed the playoffs last year.

Was it a matter if being injured or a lack of effort?



It says in this article, "But the most disappointing part of the Lakers’ season is James quitting on his team to prepare for a film he is starring in this summer."

https://commonwealthtimes.org/2019/04/10/press-box-lebron-gave-up-on-the-lakers/

https://fastbreakdaily.com/2019/02/26/lebron-quit-on-la/

Nothing to do with the 2020 season.

Hal14 wrote:

SeniorWalker wrote:A title this year would help LeBron's case a lot. Its pretty remarkable that even outside his athletic prime, he's still able to contend for best player in the league and his team is probably the favorite to win the title. And this Laker team is not a super team. A 4th title with this team earns a lot of respect if he can pull it off. I know MJ also won finals MVP at 35 but LeBron has a lot more miles which is in someway pretty impressive.

I will say AD is getting a lot of disrespect from people in general but I do think LeBron is the engine of that team and would most likely win finals MVP if they do make it,

In 2018-2019, LeBron on the Lakers with no AD = Lakers miss playoffs and LeBron quits on the team, decides to end his season early.

The lakers were a top 4 seed playing at a 50 win pace before their best, second best, and 4th best players got injured.

3rd or 4th reasonably is the highest. He doesn't have accomplishments to be higher.

JN61 wrote:3rd or 4th reasonably is the highest. He doesn't have accomplishments to be higher.

4 MVPs
3 FMVPs
16x all-NBA (counting this year)
#3 scoring all-time
#8 assists all-time
#1 playoff points all-time
#1 playoff steals all-time
#3 playoff assists all-time
#6 playoff rebounds all-time

His accomplishments speak for themselves.

I have him 5 or 6

I definitively have Jordan, Russell, Alcindor/Abdul-Jabbar, and Duncan over him, and maybe O'Neal.

I currently have him #1, though I'll still debate 1-3 with Duncan/Russell (Russell usually winds up #4 on my list, but he undeniably has an argument for #1).

Social Science is very much driven by data and analysis. Statistics is what drives modern social science, so the whole social science is all subjective seems like a poor understanding of what a social science is. Even undergraduates in somewhat poor social science programs have to take statistics courses.


As for the question at hand, I have LBJ #2 all time behind Bill Russell. Jordan is 3 if someone is wondering.

eminence wrote:I currently have him #1, though I'll still debate 1-3 with Duncan/Russell (Russell usually winds up #4 on my list, but he undeniably has an argument for #1).

How does Duncan not get closed off from an argument for #1 by Russell?

thebigbird wrote:

JN61 wrote:3rd or 4th reasonably is the highest. He doesn't have accomplishments to be higher.

4 MVPs
3 FMVPs
16x all-NBA (counting this year)
#3 scoring all-time
#8 assists all-time
#1 playoff points all-time
#1 playoff steals all-time
#3 playoff assists all-time
#6 playoff rebounds all-time

His accomplishments speak for themselves.

Also, since the most popular choice(and i'm willing to bet he's one of the people JN61 thinks lebron can't reasonably be above) here really only has a goat case based on peak, lets see how their most decorated 5 year stretches compare in terms of accomplishments.

2009- 2013 Lebron:
4 MVP's, 2 fmvp's, 5 all-nba first teams

1988-1992 Jordan:
3 mvp's, 2 fmvp's, 5 all-nba's

It was also Lebron who came closest to a unanimous mvp in 13.

It seems that people who argue against Lebron for goat can't be consistent. They set arbitrary time frames(as opposed to just comparing the totality of their career), and then switch their criteria when their preferred candidates are pitting against other ones.

First, I am a peaks guy, not a longevity guy.

Scenario 1
Jordan 1 LeBron 2 (Magic and Bird are ahead of Kobe for 3 and 4 but the centers are in also ahead of Kobe and challenging Magic and Bird)
Eye test says Jordan, My theory about guys like Jordan and Wilkins having better stats if they played current rules (touch fouls, Traveling allowed) and with modern spacing due to massive league improvement in 3 point shooting tends to diminsh LeBron's impressive statistics. I don't think LeBron is a great point guard when his ball dominance is factored in.

Scenario 2
The centers are being underrated.
Jordan may not be the GOAT. Jordan is still ahead of LeBron but Kareem, Hakeem, Chamberlain, Shaq and even David Roninson deserve consideration as being ahead of Jordan on the GOAT list.

Scenario 3
Domination of their own era
Chamberlain wins this. Russell, Mikan and Oscar also do well

Scenario 4
Winners
I don't like this scenaro much
Russell wins this. jordan and Magic do well. Bird and Curry also gain from this.

Scenario 5
LeBron Stans have replaced Kobe Stans as the most irritating Stans group therefore LeBron should be lowered two spots on the GOAT list just to punish his Stans

Weighting for averaging, Sccenario 1 5x Scenario 2 4x, Scenario 3 3x, Scenario 4 2x and Scenario 5 1x
LeBron comes out 4th
Jordan is 1, I guess Chamberlain gets 2 and Kareem gets 3

Tim Duncan is not in my top 8 and may not be in my top 15 but probably is in my top 15. Bernard King is making my top 20 list for his short glorious peak.

freethedevil wrote:

eminence wrote:I currently have him #1, though I'll still debate 1-3 with Duncan/Russell (Russell usually winds up #4 on my list, but he undeniably has an argument for #1).

How does Duncan not get closed off from an argument for #1 by Russell?

Offensive ability, surrounding Celtic talent levels.

KobesScarf wrote:1.Wilt
2.MJ
3.Lebron

Yep, same. LeBron can conceivably pass MJ with a strong finish to his career.

I rate Lebron just a hair below Marcus and Lew

Matt15 wrote:I rate Lebron just a hair below Marcus and Lew

George Marcus and Lew Alcindor?