Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team

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Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#1 » by Ken D » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:29 am

Summary of the 2017 Playoffs

Vote on the 2019 All-Playoffs Team
Vote on the 2018 All-Playoffs Team

My votes:

1st Team
C- Al Horford, Boston, Conference Finals
F- LeBron James, Cleveland, Finals
F- Kevin Durant, Golden State, Champs
G- James Harden, Houston, Second Round
G- Stephen Curry, Golden State, Champs

2nd Team
C- Tristan Thompson, Cleveland, Finals
F- Draymond Green, Golden State, Champs
F- Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio, Conference Finals
G- Kyrie Irving, Cleveland, Finals
G- John Wall, Washington, Second Round

3rd Team
C- Clint Capela, Houston, Second Round
F- Kevin Love, Cleveland, Finals
F- Gordon Hayward, Utah, Second Round
G- Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City, First Round
G- Isaiah Thomas, Boston, Conference Finals

Others Considered:
LaMarcus Aldridge, San Antonio, Conference Finals
Rudy Gobert, Utah, Second Round
Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee, First Round
Paul George, Indiana, First Round
Jae Crowder, Boston, Conference Finals
Demar DeRozan, Toronto, Second Round
Bradley Beal, Washington, Second Round
Klay Thompson, Golden State, Champs
Chris Paul, Clippers, First Round
Mike Conley, Memphis, First Round

- Center was a huge issue with this one. Draymond and Kevin Love were outside my personal criteria for Center eligibility, forcing me to reach pretty far for Capela, so I wouldn't fault anyone for trying to squeeze Draymond or Love into one of these spots. Horford and Tristan Thompson were also a reach on the 1st and 2nd team, but this was as dry on options for a position as I think we will see in any year. Interested to see what others do with this dilemma.
- Curry was a lock for one of the first team guard spots. The second spot was very close for me between Harden, Kyrie and Wall.
- Westbrook lost in the 1st round in 5 games but averaged a triple double with good shooting percentages by his standards. I wanted to go with Klay here but his numbers were down noticeably. It was his worst playoffs in Golden State's 5 year run.
- This was probably the peak we have seen from Isaiah Thomas and Gordon Hayward and I thought both were worthy of a spot on the 3rd team.
- Forward was loaded this year. Draymond and Kawhi were both probably top 5 in this playoffs but weren't knocking LeBron or Durant out of the 1st team. This was the year Pachulia stepped under Kawhi's foot and took him out for the rest of the playoffs when the Spurs had a puncher's chance against Golden State.
- Kevin Love was an easy choice for the first forward spot on the 3rd team.
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Re: 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#2 » by OfficialRef » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:11 am

I would put Westbrook over Wall.
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Re: 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#3 » by bondom34 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:20 am

Note: OKC outscored Houston by 15 with Westbrook on court that series. They were outscored by 58 in the 46 minutes he sat.

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612760/players-traditional/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals

Whatever his percentages were, he was excellent that series, I'd say 2nd team as well.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#4 » by bondom34 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:58 pm

While I'm thinking of it, haven't thought of these playoffs in a bit but:

1st team:

G: Steph Curry (Finals)
G: James Harden (2nd round)
F: Lebron James (Finals)
F: Kevin Durant (Finals)
C: Draymond Green (Finals)

2nd team:

G: Russell Westbrook (1st round)
G: John Wall (ECF)
F: Kawhi Leonard (2nd round)
F: Kevin Love (Finals)
C: Al Horford (ECF)

3rd team:

G: Kyrie Irving (Finals)
G: Isaiah Thomas (ECF)
F: Gordon Hayward (2nd round)
F: Giannis Antetokounmpo (1st round)
C: Tristan Thompson (Finals)

Main differences are that I'm lower in general on Irving and decided to go with Green as a center instead of forward which opened a spot for GIannis 3rd team. My recollection of that series was he was excellent, the Bucks just were so poorly coached at the time.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#5 » by 70sFan » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:56 pm

Remember - I don't use first round exits here.

1st team:

G: Steph Curry
G: Kyrie Irving
F: LeBron James
F: Kevin Durant
C: Draymond Green

- Curry, James and Durant clear choices to me,
- I picked Irving over Harden because of Harden's poor performance against Spurs; maybe I overrate Kyrie here but that's how I see it now,
- Green was phenomenal in 2017, arguably second best player on Warriors team.

2nd team:

G: John Wall
G: James Harden
F: Kawhi Leonard
F: Kevin Love
C: Al Horford

- Wall vs Thomas is an interesting debate, but Thomas was terrible defensively as always,
- Harden is talented enough to stay on 2nd team despite poor performance against Spurs,
- Kawhi would have been in 1st team without injury, but I have to adjust for that,
- Love is tough choice, he was good but not spectatular, I can't find any better candidate though and Love's shooting was amazing,
- Horford was great in Boston, the best player on ECF finals team.

3rd team:

G: Isaiah Thomas
G: Bradley Beal
F: Gordon Hayward
F: LaMarcus Aldridge
C: Tristan Thompson

- I don't like Thomas, but he was very good in this season,
- Beal was underrated as always and he played fairly well, Klay was poor offensively in comparison,
- Hayward was nice and Aldrigde was inconsistent but important piece of WCF team,
- Thompson was still very valuable then offensively and on the boards, there was huge difference between 2017 and 2018 Cavs.
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#6 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:21 pm

So how I've been doing this has been going through the series on bkref and evaluating standouts from each series before trying to squeeze them into teams. I've avoided this detail before because I thought it would be cumbersome for people, but thought now it might stir some conversation.

So:
1st Round:
Boston over Chicago (Isaiah)
Cleveland over Indiana (LeBron)
Toronto over Milwauke (Giannis, among TOR, DeRozan)
Washington over Atlanta (Wall)
Golden State over Portland (Curry)
Houston over Oklahoma City (Harden)
San Antonio over Memphis (Kawhi)
Utah over Clippers (Hayward)

CSF:
Boston over Washington (Isaiah)
Cleveland over Toronto (LeBron)
Golden State over Utah (Curry)
San Antonio over Houston (Aldridge)

CF:
Cleveland over Boston (LeBron)
Golden State over San Antonio (Curry)

Finals:
Golden State over Cleveland (Durant)

That's 11 guys, add in Dray/Klay and Kyrie/Love and you're at 15, and your center coverage is iffy.

Putting that in to teams:

1st Team
Draymond Green
Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Steph Curry
Kyrie Irving

Totally dominated by GS & Cavs, which I think seems right.

2nd Team
Al Horford
Kevin Love
Kawhi Leonard
James Harden
Isaiah Thomas


I'd imagine putting Isaiah this high rubs folks the wrong way but listen: Isaiah was one of the big stories of these playoffs, and this represents his apex as a player. I only wish I felt comfortable to put him on the 1st team.

3rd Team
Rudy Gobert
LaMarcus Aldridge
Gordon Hayward
John Wall
Russell Westbrook


Leaving off Giannis, who lost in the first round, and DeRozan, in favor of a guy who lost in the first round.

Also leaving off Klay, who really seemed virtually unneeded this year for the super-stacked Warriors.
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Tryin' to avoid the strident debates. I'd rather just help others understand.
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#7 » by Ken D » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:10 pm

Results so far:

1st Team
C - Draymond Green, Golden State 18
F - LeBron James, Cleveland 20
F - Kevin Durant, Golden State 20
G - Stephen Curry, Golden State 20
G - James Harden, Houston 16

2nd Team
C - Al Horford, Boston 14
F - Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio 12
F - Kevin Love, Cleveland 10
G - Kyrie Irving, Cleveland 14
G - John Wall, Washington 10

3rd Team
C - Tristan Thompson, Cleveland 5
F - Gordon Hayward, Utah 4
F - LaMarcus Aldridge, San Antonio 2
G - Isaiah Thomas, Boston 6
G - Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City 5

Others Receiving Votes:
Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee 1; Bradley Beal, Washington 1; Clint Capela, Houston 1; Rudy Gobert, Utah 1

Ballots Counted: Ken D, bondom34, 70sFan, Doctor MJ
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#8 » by Ken D » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:49 pm

What criteria are you guys using for position eligibility?

I was the only one that didn't have Draymond eligible at Center so I think I'm maybe being a bit too stringent.
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#9 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:59 pm

Ken D wrote:What criteria are you guys using for position eligibility?

I was the only one that didn't have Draymond eligible at Center so I think I'm maybe being a bit too stringent.


Generally speaking I'm going by where you made your impact with your team. If I have clear evidence in 2 different positions, then I can be flexible as to where I classify you.

In the case of Green, well, the Warriors had 5 top players who played way more than anyone else in the finals and are known for playing in a great lineup together. When those 5 played together, Green was the center, so he qualifies for me.
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#10 » by 70sFan » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:00 pm

Ken D wrote:What criteria are you guys using for position eligibility?

I was the only one that didn't have Draymond eligible at Center so I think I'm maybe being a bit too stringent.


I use two guards, two forwards and a center. I don't think we should be too strict about positions anyway, as we all know that basketball is always positionless.

I used Draymond as a center, because he was Warriors main rim protector and he played a lot of minutes with Durant as second bigman. Durant is definitely not a center.
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#11 » by eminence » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:50 pm

I really like how Doc presented his thinking here, similar method here.

1st round:
Celtics over Bulls - Thomas/Horford/Butler the three standouts here to me
Cavs over Pacers - LeBron with a huge series, George #2, argument neither Kyrie or Love are #3
Raptors over Bucks - Giannis the best in the loss, DeRozan has one of his better series to lead the Raptors
Wizards over Hawks - Wall is great for the Wizards, Millsap plays solidly in the loss
Warriors over Blazers - Dray>Curry>>Lillard
Rockets over Thunder - Westbrook arguably the best in the series, but Harden does play well
Spurs over Grizzlies - Kawhi dominates, Conley/Gasol probably 2/3
Jazz over Clippers - Weird series, CP3 the best player, Hayward plays well

2nd round:
Celtics over Wizards - Heck of a series, honestly looks like all of the stars - Thomas/Horford/Wall/Beal step up, Celtics pull it out though
Cavs over Raptors - LeBron easily, Kyrie plays well this series, DeRozan is alright
Warriors over Jazz - Dray>Curry>KD, both Hayward and Gobert are solid
Spurs over Rockets - Another very strange one, Harden probably the best player through 5, Kawhi goes down and Harden lays an egg for the Spurs to advance

Conference Finals:
Cavs over Celtics - Love finally shows up, LBJ/Kyrie still great. IT down, no Celtics play that well.
Warriors over Spurs - Curry>Dray>KD, no Spur plays very well

Finals:
Warriors over Cavs - KD>Curry>Dray, LeBron great, Kyrie solid, Love alright.

1st Team:
Stephen Curry
James Harden
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Draymond Green

2nd Team:
Russell Westbrook
Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Al Horford

3rd Team:
Isaiah Thomas
John Wall
Gordon Hayward
Kevin Love
LaMarcus Aldridge
'17-'18 APBR Win Projections Champion (1st of 20)
'18-'19 5th of 18
'19-'20 2nd of 17 (For now?)
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Re: Vote for the 2017 All-Playoffs Team 

Post#12 » by Ken D » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:04 pm

Results so far:

1st Team
C - Draymond Green, Golden State 23
F - LeBron James, Cleveland 25
F - Kevin Durant, Golden State 25
G - Stephen Curry, Golden State 25
G - James Harden, Houston 21

2nd Team
C - Al Horford, Boston 17
F - Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio 15
F - Kevin Love, Cleveland 11
G - Kyrie Irving, Cleveland 17
G - John Wall, Washington 11

3rd Team
C - Tristan Thompson, Cleveland 5
F - Gordon Hayward, Utah 5
F - Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee 4
G - Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City 8
G - Isaiah Thomas, Boston 7

Others Receiving Votes:
LaMarcus Aldridge, San Antonio 3; Bradley Beal, Washington 1; Clint Capela, Houston 1; Rudy Gobert, Utah 1

Ballots Counted: Ken D, bondom34, 70sFan, Doctor MJ, eminence

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