Your top 5 in 2017?

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Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#1 » by ardee » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:07 pm

Who do you have?

I think you pretty much have 7 main candidates to choose from and 2 more fringe ones. They are in no particular order:

LeBron James
Stephen Curry
Kevin Durant
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Kawhi Leonard
Chris Paul

and

Draymond Green
Anthony Davis

I think my top 5 is:

1. LeBron James (the GOAT peak in my opinion)
2. Russell Westbrook (one of the most overachieving RSes of all time, the Thunder likely won at least 15 games just because of his sheer force of will)
3. Stephen Curry (worse RS than the previous year but got it back in the Playoffs)
4. Kawhi Leonard (he would be 3, maybe even 2, if he didn't get injured)
5. Chris Paul

6. Kevin Durant
7. James Harden

The 5-7 is a tough one. I ended up choosing Paul over Durant because of the clear gap in impact stats and the fact that though they both missed RS games, Paul was available for the whole Playoffs unlike KD, and over Harden because of impact stats again and the fact that Paul was excellent in the Playoffs and Harden was not.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#2 » by 70sFan » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:30 pm

1. LeBron James
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Stephen Curry
4. Kevin Durant
5. Russell Westbrook

Unsure about Harden and Paul vs Westbrook, I may have him lower than them.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#3 » by Whopper_Sr » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:36 pm

The 2017 season featured both peak LeBron and peak Curry which makes them locks for the top 2 spots.

Then I would consider Paul, Durant, and Kawhi to round out the top 5. Not that high on Harden and Westbrook. I would probably take Draymond over them.

1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Paul
4. Kawhi (#3 if no injury)
5. Durant
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#4 » by No-more-rings » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:45 pm

Lebron
Curry
Kawhi
Westbrook
Durant
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#5 » by Dutchball97 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:07 pm

1. LeBron James
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Kevin Durant
4. Stephen Curry
5. Russell Westbrook

HM to Chris Paul, I came close to including him but he just missed out.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#6 » by bondom34 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:18 pm

I can't remember my exact POY vote but if I recall:

1. Lebron
2. Curry
3. Kawhi
4. Westbrook
5. Durant

Might have a few of these flipped around but I think that was it, may check later.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#7 » by eminence » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:03 pm

My POY vote was this:

1. Steph
2. LeBron
3. Draymond
4. Westbrook
5. Durant

More of a best players list:

1. Steph
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi - playoff injury tanked him in POY voting
4. Draymond
5. CP3
6. KD
7. Westbrook
8. Harden
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#8 » by eminence » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:04 pm

bondom34 wrote:I can't remember my exact POY vote but if I recall:

1. Lebron
2. Curry
3. Kawhi
4. Westbrook
5. Durant

Might have a few of these flipped around but I think that was it, may check later.


You had:

1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Westbrook
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#9 » by HeartBreakKid » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:55 pm

I had

1) James
2) Leonard
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) CP3

I gave Durant/Curry benefit of the doubt over CP3 because he was injured.

Durant and Curry was a coin flip to me. I gave it to Durant cause I figured maybe his defensive edge might make him better in the post season.

James and Leonard were an easy #1 and #2 for me that year. That hasn't changed.

Maybe in hindsight CP3 was 'better' than the Warrior leads, but I'm too lazy to look back into it now.



EDIT: I confused this season with the season where CP3 broke his finger against Portland. Yeah, CP3 was probably better than Durant that season - but Durant feasted on a stacked team and got hardware.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#10 » by limbo » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:09 pm

1.) LeBron
2.) Steph
3.) Kawhi
4.) CP3
5.) Durant
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#11 » by BigBoss23 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:15 pm

Durant
Kawhi
Curry
Lebron
Harden
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#12 » by bondom34 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:40 pm

eminence wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I can't remember my exact POY vote but if I recall:

1. Lebron
2. Curry
3. Kawhi
4. Westbrook
5. Durant

Might have a few of these flipped around but I think that was it, may check later.


You had:

1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Westbrook
4. Kawhi
5. Harden

Thanks! Looking on it now I'm not sure on Kawhi/Westbrook given playoffs but IIRC that was the Zaza injury so Kawhi's playoffs was a bit shortened as well. I was also higher on Kawhi's regular season iirc than Harden so it would make some sense.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#13 » by ShotCreator » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:53 pm

1. LeBron
2. Curry
3. Paul
4. Kawhi
5. Westbrook

Harden, Draymond, Durant, Gobert, Lowry, Butler round out the top 10 in some order. Giannis/Davis on the brink.

Curry had a strong two-way RS. Extreme high level postseason.

LeBron had a strong prime year in the RS. Not quite elite on D in the PS like 2016, but still strong like current LeBron. Monster postseason.


Paul had one of the best two-way seasons from a guard ever. His best defensive season as a Clipper, and the most skill he had ever attained to that point in his career. Elite ISO, spot-up, and pick and roll numbers. Monster player with a crazy, underrated motor.

Kawhi quit on defense essentially but had a strong postseason. Should probably be lower but I’m high on his play at max effort.

Westbrook, obv. Not elite player, specifically due to defense, but the highest level offensive season a player can have without elite skill IMO.

Hardens defense was atrocious this year. Worried about chasing triple doubles, playing more out of position than WB, racking up uncontested DREB’s himself. Pounding the ball on the way to forced assists on a team with more secondary playmakers than the ones with Paul/WB. Much better following years. Very mediocre impact overall because of this.

Draymond’s shot was broken in the RS, but his defense was at peak levels in this time period. Culminating in an insane first round against Portland where the score looked like something in the 92 Olympics, but without Durant.

Draymond’s jumper showed up in the playoffs where he was essentially 16 Draymond. Crazy high level season for an average scorer.

Giannis was significantly worse at every facet of the game, probably due to not developing skills and being misused, but just like how elite coaching gives him all the glory, bad coaching stunted him and showed his flaws. Very mediocre impact for his boxscore. Especially on offense where he stunted guys around him due to skill deficiencies.


I could go on.

My favorite season of the decade after 2014 despite how dominant GS was. Really high level basketball was played in different areas. Space and pace + all the athleticism brought things to a new level of difficult for guys to dominate in my opinion. Not stuff boxscore, but actually really control games. Because every great, skilled athlete can stuff boxscore. I think 2017 was way stronger than a year like 2003. And clearly better than the late 00’s on talent.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#14 » by LukaTheGOAT » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:43 am

1. Lebron
2. Kawhi (Shocker, I know, but I think 2017 Kawhi is an all-time season)
3. Stephen Curry
4./5. CP3/Kevin Durant (Impact metrics seem to like Paul more, but idk, KD's scoring barrage and ability to gel with GSW was something)

I feel really good about this top 5. I believe that CP3 played better in the playoffs then Westbrook and Harden, and based off his past body of work, believe he was a better player than those two at the time.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#15 » by No-more-rings » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:19 am

LukaTheGOAT wrote:1. Lebron
2. Kawhi (Shocker, I know, but I think 2017 Kawhi is an all-time season)
3. Stephen Curry
4./5. CP3/Kevin Durant (Impact metrics seem to like Paul more, but idk, KD's scoring barrage and ability to gel with GSW was something)

I feel really good about this top 5. I believe that CP3 played better in the playoffs then Westbrook and Harden, and based off his past body of work, believe he was a better player than those two at the time.

A few questions/comments here.

Considering 2017 has a good case for being Curry’s peak, do you consider Kawhi the better peak player?

How do you reconcile Kawhi’s injury in the playoffs? Do you see it as a fluke thing and don’t hold it against him? Regardless he ruined any chance of his team advancing and that has to be considered.

Cp3 over Westbrook that year for me is kinda ehh. Missing 21 games is no small deal, and while he had a pretty good series against Jazz, it still felt like a “probably winnable” series that they lost with homecourt. Westbrook completely carried that team to 47-48 wins and his team fell apart with him on the bench in the playoffs.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#16 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:47 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
LukaTheGOAT wrote:1. Lebron
2. Kawhi (Shocker, I know, but I think 2017 Kawhi is an all-time season)
3. Stephen Curry
4./5. CP3/Kevin Durant (Impact metrics seem to like Paul more, but idk, KD's scoring barrage and ability to gel with GSW was something)

I feel really good about this top 5. I believe that CP3 played better in the playoffs then Westbrook and Harden, and based off his past body of work, believe he was a better player than those two at the time.

A few questions/comments here.

Considering 2017 has a good case for being Curry’s peak, do you consider Kawhi the better peak player?

How do you reconcile Kawhi’s injury in the playoffs? Do you see it as a fluke thing and don’t hold it against him? Regardless he ruined any chance of his team advancing and that has to be considered.

Cp3 over Westbrook that year for me is kinda ehh. Missing 21 games is no small deal, and while he had a pretty good series against Jazz, it still felt like a “probably winnable” series that they lost with homecourt. Westbrook completely carried that team to 47-48 wins and his team fell apart with him on the bench in the playoffs.



I mean Clippers vs Jazz was winnable because Chris Paul carried the team to 7 games. The Jazz were the deepest team in the playoffs and arguably the best defense - the Clippers without Blake Griffin were bad, even more so when JJ Reddick (their third best player) couldn't hit any shots.

Westbrook carried his team to the playoffs - yes, this is true - as did Chris Paul, despite missing 1/4th of the season. The Clippers were 7-14 - so Chris Paul made a gigantic difference between whether they were a possible second round team in the West and being a .250 team. It's as if you are painting that the Clippers were a decent team without Chris Paul.

The Jazz didn't have homecourt against the Clippers because the Jazz had many injuries during the regular season - as they regularly do during the Gobert era. (three of their starters played less than 56 games, and Hayward lost about 10 on top of that)


Anyway, it's not like the Thunder only ran into the wall called the Rockets. The Thunder wouldn't have beaten the Jazz either.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#17 » by No-more-rings » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:08 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
LukaTheGOAT wrote:1. Lebron
2. Kawhi (Shocker, I know, but I think 2017 Kawhi is an all-time season)
3. Stephen Curry
4./5. CP3/Kevin Durant (Impact metrics seem to like Paul more, but idk, KD's scoring barrage and ability to gel with GSW was something)

I feel really good about this top 5. I believe that CP3 played better in the playoffs then Westbrook and Harden, and based off his past body of work, believe he was a better player than those two at the time.

A few questions/comments here.

Considering 2017 has a good case for being Curry’s peak, do you consider Kawhi the better peak player?

How do you reconcile Kawhi’s injury in the playoffs? Do you see it as a fluke thing and don’t hold it against him? Regardless he ruined any chance of his team advancing and that has to be considered.

Cp3 over Westbrook that year for me is kinda ehh. Missing 21 games is no small deal, and while he had a pretty good series against Jazz, it still felt like a “probably winnable” series that they lost with homecourt. Westbrook completely carried that team to 47-48 wins and his team fell apart with him on the bench in the playoffs.



I mean Clippers vs Jazz was winnable because Chris Paul carried the team to 7 games. The Jazz were the deepest team in the playoffs and arguably the best defense - the Clippers without Blake Griffin were bad, even more so when JJ Reddick (their third best player) couldn't hit any shots.

Westbrook carried his team to the playoffs - yes, this is true - as did Chris Paul, despite missing 1/4th of the season. The Clippers were 7-14 - so Chris Paul made a gigantic difference between whether they were a possible second round team in the West and being a .250 team. It's as if you are painting that the Clippers were a decent team without Chris Paul.

The Jazz didn't have homecourt against the Clippers because the Jazz had many injuries during the regular season - as they regularly do during the Gobert era. (three of their starters played less than 56 games, and Hayward lost about 10 on top of that)


Anyway, it's not like the Thunder only ran into the wall called the Rockets. The Thunder wouldn't have beaten the Jazz either.

The Thunder would’ve missed the playoffs with Paul instead of Westbrook. I’m not saying Paul’s cast was excellent or anything, but it’s really no comparison between having Griffin, Jordan and Reddick compared to...uh Steven Adams and a younger Oladipo.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#18 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:14 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:A few questions/comments here.

Considering 2017 has a good case for being Curry’s peak, do you consider Kawhi the better peak player?

How do you reconcile Kawhi’s injury in the playoffs? Do you see it as a fluke thing and don’t hold it against him? Regardless he ruined any chance of his team advancing and that has to be considered.

Cp3 over Westbrook that year for me is kinda ehh. Missing 21 games is no small deal, and while he had a pretty good series against Jazz, it still felt like a “probably winnable” series that they lost with homecourt. Westbrook completely carried that team to 47-48 wins and his team fell apart with him on the bench in the playoffs.



I mean Clippers vs Jazz was winnable because Chris Paul carried the team to 7 games. The Jazz were the deepest team in the playoffs and arguably the best defense - the Clippers without Blake Griffin were bad, even more so when JJ Reddick (their third best player) couldn't hit any shots.

Westbrook carried his team to the playoffs - yes, this is true - as did Chris Paul, despite missing 1/4th of the season. The Clippers were 7-14 - so Chris Paul made a gigantic difference between whether they were a possible second round team in the West and being a .250 team. It's as if you are painting that the Clippers were a decent team without Chris Paul.

The Jazz didn't have homecourt against the Clippers because the Jazz had many injuries during the regular season - as they regularly do during the Gobert era. (three of their starters played less than 56 games, and Hayward lost about 10 on top of that)


Anyway, it's not like the Thunder only ran into the wall called the Rockets. The Thunder wouldn't have beaten the Jazz either.

The Thunder would’ve missed the playoffs with Paul instead of Westbrook. I’m not saying Paul’s cast was excellent or anything, but it’s really no comparison between having Griffin, Jordan and Reddick compared to...uh Steven Adams and a younger Oladipo.




DeAndre Jordan and JJ Reddick NO COMPARISON to Steve Adams and Victor Oladipo? They are very much comparable.


Blake Griffin only played two games in the post season and one of them the Clippers lost. He was not a factor at all...obviously if Blake Griffin was never injured the Clippers would have been much better. That's been the story of the Clippers and Blake Griffin's career.

The Clippers may have been better than the Thunder, but they were still an incredibly shallow team and weren't top heavy either.

Anyway - saying prime CP3 is better than prime Westbrook hardly seems like a strange thing to say.

It's not like the 2018 Thunder lit it up either. They did even worse against the Jazz in 2018 and Westbrook had Paul George in that series (which he didn't play nearly as poorly as people did, he had a poor elimination game). We literally saw how the Thunder did against the Jazz the next season - and while there were changes the core of their teams were either the same or just swapped (Don Mitchell for Hayward, Oladipo for George - which are two swaps in the Thunder's favor).
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#19 » by eminence » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:28 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:A few questions/comments here.

Considering 2017 has a good case for being Curry’s peak, do you consider Kawhi the better peak player?

How do you reconcile Kawhi’s injury in the playoffs? Do you see it as a fluke thing and don’t hold it against him? Regardless he ruined any chance of his team advancing and that has to be considered.

Cp3 over Westbrook that year for me is kinda ehh. Missing 21 games is no small deal, and while he had a pretty good series against Jazz, it still felt like a “probably winnable” series that they lost with homecourt. Westbrook completely carried that team to 47-48 wins and his team fell apart with him on the bench in the playoffs.



I mean Clippers vs Jazz was winnable because Chris Paul carried the team to 7 games. The Jazz were the deepest team in the playoffs and arguably the best defense - the Clippers without Blake Griffin were bad, even more so when JJ Reddick (their third best player) couldn't hit any shots.

Westbrook carried his team to the playoffs - yes, this is true - as did Chris Paul, despite missing 1/4th of the season. The Clippers were 7-14 - so Chris Paul made a gigantic difference between whether they were a possible second round team in the West and being a .250 team. It's as if you are painting that the Clippers were a decent team without Chris Paul.

The Jazz didn't have homecourt against the Clippers because the Jazz had many injuries during the regular season - as they regularly do during the Gobert era. (three of their starters played less than 56 games, and Hayward lost about 10 on top of that)


Anyway, it's not like the Thunder only ran into the wall called the Rockets. The Thunder wouldn't have beaten the Jazz either.

The Thunder would’ve missed the playoffs with Paul instead of Westbrook. I’m not saying Paul’s cast was excellent or anything, but it’s really no comparison between having Griffin, Jordan and Reddick compared to...uh Steven Adams and a younger Oladipo.


Unlikely they miss the playoffs, 7 games up on 9th, 'younger' Oladipo was 1 season from being an All-NBA player and Roberson/Adams vs Redick/Jordan is very much a discussion.

The Jazz were kinda sucky with Gobert hobbled though (knee-sprain in game 1, missed the first 3 and slowed for the rest of the playoffs), I really enjoyed the series, but CP3 getting outplayed by 35 year old Joe Johnson down the stretch of game 4 is not a good look.
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Re: Your top 5 in 2017? 

Post#20 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:31 pm

eminence wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:

I mean Clippers vs Jazz was winnable because Chris Paul carried the team to 7 games. The Jazz were the deepest team in the playoffs and arguably the best defense - the Clippers without Blake Griffin were bad, even more so when JJ Reddick (their third best player) couldn't hit any shots.

Westbrook carried his team to the playoffs - yes, this is true - as did Chris Paul, despite missing 1/4th of the season. The Clippers were 7-14 - so Chris Paul made a gigantic difference between whether they were a possible second round team in the West and being a .250 team. It's as if you are painting that the Clippers were a decent team without Chris Paul.

The Jazz didn't have homecourt against the Clippers because the Jazz had many injuries during the regular season - as they regularly do during the Gobert era. (three of their starters played less than 56 games, and Hayward lost about 10 on top of that)


Anyway, it's not like the Thunder only ran into the wall called the Rockets. The Thunder wouldn't have beaten the Jazz either.

The Thunder would’ve missed the playoffs with Paul instead of Westbrook. I’m not saying Paul’s cast was excellent or anything, but it’s really no comparison between having Griffin, Jordan and Reddick compared to...uh Steven Adams and a younger Oladipo.


Unlikely they miss the playoffs, 7 games up on 9th, 'younger' Oladipo was 1 season from being an All-NBA player and Roberson/Adams vs Redick/Jordan is very much a discussion.

The Jazz were kinda sucky with Gobert hobbled though (knee-sprain in game 1, missed the first 3 and slowed for the rest of the playoffs), I really enjoyed the series, but CP3 getting outplayed by 35 year old Joe Johnson down the stretch of game 4 is not a good look.



And that's the thing. Joe Johnson only needs to have a game here or there - because he was a bench player for the Jazz (albeit he is a very good playoff player). The Clippers do not have any type of relief. Clippers and Jazz are polar opposites on the depth spectrum, on top of the Jazz having a crushing defense.

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