Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Actually, I think Jason Kidd was/is horribly miscasted as a role player since he was clearly past his prime when he was a Mav. If we are talking impact, Jason Kidd must have had the impact of a low tier all-star - he could hit 3s, he was legit as hell on D so at the very least you have a really good 3 and D guy. Typically speaking elite 3 and D guys are pretty much low tier all-stars impact wise, or as good as you can be without being a star.
Add onto Kidd's passing and playmaking ability and it's pretty clear he was better than many players who have been designated as all-star over NBA's history.
Dallas Jason Kidd is very underrated. Some people make it seem like he was taken along for the ride, but he was better than other all-stars who have won rings.
3&D low tier all stars?
Let me ask you this, who was batter, that version of Kidd or this year's Marcus Smart?
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Yes, a really good 3 and D guy will be better than the worst all-star, typically speaking. There are years where Danny Green was better than DeMar DeRozan who is a perennial all-star. If Tony Allen could hit 3s at 37-39% at high volume he would have earned huge contracts and been a very dominant player for someone who can't dribble worth a salt. He would have been better than say, DeAndre Jordan, who most people agree deserved his all-star spot when he was in his prime.
I'm not sure who is better between Kidd and Smart because I'm not that familiar with the 2020 season, I would think Kidd is. Marcus Smart is actually a legitimate defensive juggernaut and the only thing that held him back was his shot selection, so now that is fixed and he stays healthy he is going to have a semi-prestigious career when it's all said and done. It would be unwise to merely look at him as a run of the mill role player. Marcus Smart is a defensive juggernaut, who can run point and can hit 3s to keep defenses honest, that makes him better than some players who's skill set usually resembles a franchise players.
There are players whos play styles are "similar" to a role player but their impact is more of a core player than a supplementary guy. Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler (at least 2011 version) were better than roleplayers even if they never got the all-star designation (actually, Chandler would get more accolades once he went to NY and the media looked at him more closely).
Look at some of the players this year - Khris Middleton, Sabonis, Tatum, Ingram, Booker, Abedeyo; not all those guys are that impactful, they just have glamor stats or are on highly publicized teams. In fact, someone like Khris Middleton has been labeled a 3 and D guy for years and he was always better than some all-stars (and yes, Middleton is not a real 3 and D guy because he can create, but Smart/Kidd aren't 3 and D guys either).
We have to acknowledge that low tier all-stars are not the centers of their contending teams, they are usually there to help the main guy and the secondary guy. In those regards they're not that different from elite 3 and D guys, just their skill sets usually are.