Kyle Lowry or Chauncey Billups, and are they both top 10 PGs of all time?

[Rapcity_11]

Chaunceys washed up seasons in Ny/Lac hurt his averages along with his playoff debut when he was the 10th-11th man on the Wolves

from 02-10 he avged 18/6/3.5 on .58ts in a far tougher defensive environment

And what about Lowry's 13 games in 09 which represent a much larger % of his playoff games the games you want to exclude for Billups?

Billups has a lot more tough playoff stretches than people want to remember (similar to guys like Parker and Pierce). He was also largely terrible in the clutch and somehow got a mr. big shot nickname.

Overall, it's a pretty damn tough choice.

I don't include Lowry's Houston postseason when he was a bench player either. Just his Raptor run

Why didn't you say that above when you adjusted Chauncey's stats?

[Leslie Forman]

Nope, not even close. What makes them better players than like Kevin Johnson, Terry Porter, Tim Hardaway, Mark Price? Let alone top 10.

Those guys weren't any better longevity-wise. Billups and Lowry both put up several years as the best players on 50+ win teams. Except for one year with Kawhi, neither guy ever had a teammate on the level of a Drexler, Zo, or even a Mullin (I am not much of a Melo stan, obviously). One of them is even a Finals MVP. So the question should arguably be what makes those guys any better.

They are obviously not counting stat guys, but using counting stats to judge point guards is like using batting average to judge batters. We saw how much better Denver was replacing 26/7 Iverson (and he was actually pretty efficient that year) with Billups and his pedestrian looking 18/6.

[Ron Swanson]

I'm not a fan of dismissing those guys' higher raw numbers and attributing "winning" more to guys like Billups and Lowry based on confirmation-bias centralized arguments (they "won" more, so duh). Too often it's a trap that makes us favor current guys over past players because we attribute so much of "impact" to on/off data and metrics like RPM, which we conveniently don't have reliable data for with a lot of these guys.

Do I buy that Kyle Lowry had some quantifiably greater impact on winning than Mark Price? No. It's blind assumption based on modern statistical advantages/bias at it's worst, and completely subjective at its best. I think this is a pretty good comparison though. I have Billups as a more consistent postseason performer in his prime and he gets the slight nod for me, but I'm not gonna act like there's some ridiculous gap. Him and Lowry are relatively same tier players, but nowhere near the Top-10 in PG's:

Magic
Steph
Frazier
Kidd
Payton
Paul
Stockton
Westbrook
Oscar
Nash
Thomas

And that's not even including subjective position guys like Jerry West, Iverson, etc.

[slimreaper2021]

Maybe in terms of peak

[Pharmacist]

Give me Billups. Great shooter, plays good defence, can set up his teammates with a pass, crafty at creating his own shot of the dribble with a step back jumper, and if he has a smaller guard defending him he'll post him up down low, I don't remember Lowry having any semblance of a post up game ever.

[prophet_of_rage]

I'll take Lowry over Billups. And I am not a fan of Lowry's personality. Both are heady leaders who will take care of the ball and run the offence. Both give up their bodies on defence. Both pass the ball ahead. Billups might be emotionally steadier. Is emotionally steadier. Lowry is a more dynamic scorer and a better transition passer. He has a more comfortable 3. (Chauncey's step in 3 is bullchit) He is better operating out of the P n R and has the advantage of more legal moves to get off.

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[Coach PM]

Don’t think they have the peak

[Johnny Tomala]

Nope, not a chance. Billups was better than Lowry, but he is also not even close to being Top 10 PG of all time.

[HeartBreakKid]

Ill take Billups. Much more reliable and resilient in the playoffs

Why would you compare their career stats and not their prime stats?

[TheBomb81]

Neither of them are in the top 10.

[KobesScarf]

Billups is maybe 25-30. Lowry more like 40-45

Kidd
Curry
Payton
Magic
Iverson
West
Westbrook
Cousy
Frazier
Oscar
Gus Williams
Deron Williams
Paul
Nash
Rose
Lillard
Stockton
Isiah
Tiny
Penny
Parker
KJ