The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6)

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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1641 » by The Master » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:41 pm

D.Brasco wrote:Crazy. I wonder if LeBron now has the argument for best longevity in NBA history? At least in terms of on-court dominance. After year 15 both Timmy and KAJ while still very good accepted supporting roles. LeBron was a top level MVP candidate this year.

Keep in mind in Kareem's years there was no All-NBA Third Team, so probably he lost once or twice spot in All-NBA Teams, so did Malone. The other thing is LeBron still has fifteen All-NBA First and Second Teams (same as Kareem), and the record of All-NBA First Teams.

He's on Kareem's tier longevity-wise as NBA player, one more season for LeBron on top5 level and he'll have ~36k points in regular season, ~7,5k points in playoffs, 17 All-NBA Teams, 16 top6 MVP votings (9th in rookie season and 11th last year, but the first one should be ignored).

Kareem after '86 (his last AS season) had 35k points in regular season, 5k points in playoffs, 15 All-NBA Teams and 15 top6 mvp votings (+two times 10th place).

So after next season if he stays healthy, LeBron will have GOAT longevity, even better than Kareem's. After '86, Kareem had one non-All-NBA Teams level, but still very nice season (17ppg in RS, 19ppg in playoffs), but it should be much easier to match.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1642 » by picko » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:24 am

LeBron's longevity is among the best in NBA history. But Kareem won a FMVP at 38-years and then made the all-NBA first team the year after.

When it comes to longevity there is Kareem and then there is everyone else. And that doesn't change unless LeBron is playing at an all-NBA level into his late 30s.

If Kareem had been able to enter the league after high school he finishes with about 8k more points and discussions around longevity would seem silly. We shouldn't discount his longevity - or even normalise what he did - because he played in an era where most players spent four years at college.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1643 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:36 am

picko wrote:LeBron's longevity is among the best in NBA history. But Kareem won a FMVP at 38-years and then made the all-NBA first team the year after.

When it comes to longevity there is Kareem and then there is everyone else. And that doesn't change unless LeBron is playing at an all-NBA level into his late 30s.

If Kareem had been able to enter the league after high school he finishes with about 8k more points and discussions around longevity would seem silly. We shouldn't discount his longevity - or even normalise what he did - because he played in an era where most players spent four years at college.


I mean yeah, in terms of top end longevity lebrons been the best player in the league every year since 09, outside of 2015 and 2019 (injury)

I think assuming kareem would have the same career trajectory playing 4 years in college is much, and bron has more career points counting playoffs im pretty sure
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1644 » by thebigbird » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:10 am

picko wrote:LeBron's longevity is among the best in NBA history. But Kareem won a FMVP at 38-years and then made the all-NBA first team the year after.

When it comes to longevity there is Kareem and then there is everyone else. And that doesn't change unless LeBron is playing at an all-NBA level into his late 30s.

If Kareem had been able to enter the league after high school he finishes with about 8k more points and discussions around longevity would seem silly. We shouldn't discount his longevity - or even normalise what he did - because he played in an era where most players spent four years at college.

I’m still going with LeBron over Kareem for longevity. LeBron doesn’t just have longevity, he has ‘best player in the world longevity.’ He’s still the best player in the world in his 17th season. That’s unheard of. Not many players are setting career highs in year 17, but that’s what LeBron did in assists this year.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1645 » by DatAsh » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:59 am

picko wrote:LeBron's longevity is among the best in NBA history. But Kareem won a FMVP at 38-years and then made the all-NBA first team the year after.

When it comes to longevity there is Kareem and then there is everyone else. And that doesn't change unless LeBron is playing at an all-NBA level into his late 30s.

If Kareem had been able to enter the league after high school he finishes with about 8k more points and discussions around longevity would seem silly. We shouldn't discount his longevity - or even normalise what he did - because he played in an era where most players spent four years at college.


Not to mention that you can't compare a player that started in 1970 to a player that started in 2003. Players today have a huge advantage when it comes to racking up years and staying in good shape.

The quality of shoes, training, PT, medicine, surgery options, and nutrition is just on a completely different level. Personally, I extend Kareem's prime(and career) 3 years to account for this(when comparing to modern players). When comparing him to Lebron specifically, I also add the years he was playing in college, since he wasn't allowed to play in the NBA. College Kareem would have been a top 3-4 player in the NBA. I would probably add 6 years to Kareem's longevity if you're doing an honest comparison of current Lebron's longevity to Kareem.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1646 » by dreamshake » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:43 am

DatAsh wrote:I would probably add 6 years to Kareem's longevity if you're doing an honest comparison of current Lebron's longevity to Kareem.


Come on man, this is ridiculous. Only 8 guys have ever played 20 seasons. Only Vince has played 22, and he was hobbling around scoring 5 pts a game by the end. Kareem isn't playing 26 seasons. If magic shoes and doctors extend your career so much, where are all these modern players playing 20+ years? The only other guys from the 2003 draft still left are Melo & Korver and they're both completely washed.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1647 » by dreamshake » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:28 am

picko wrote:If Kareem had been able to enter the league after high school he finishes with about 8k more points and discussions around longevity would seem silly. We shouldn't discount his longevity - or even normalise what he did - because he played in an era where most players spent four years at college.


Kareem played 88 games in his entire college career. That's 1 NBA season. You can't just assume if he'd played 300-400 NBA games + all the travel, practice, shootarounds, etc. that pro bball entails during the years that he was in college, that he still would have been able to play at as high of a level as he did in his later years. Duncan, Dirk, KG, Kobe, etc. were all trying their best to extend their careers and they all hit a wall around that same 19/20/21-season mark. I see no reason to believe Kareem was capable of playing 30%+ more seasons than every other player in history.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1648 » by Arman_tanzarian » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:43 am

Greyhound wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:
thebigbird wrote:I never want to see kawhi compared to LeBron James again.


But...but...but midrange, doesn’t need his own system, portable, midrange, mamba, Jordan warrior, cold blooded

You forgot mentally tough, Android and dog.

Nah bih the biggest one is he's a killer and LeBron is not. Whatever the hell that means.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1649 » by freethedevil » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:23 am

DatAsh wrote:
picko wrote:LeBron's longevity is among the best in NBA history. But Kareem won a FMVP at 38-years and then made the all-NBA first team the year after.

When it comes to longevity there is Kareem and then there is everyone else. And that doesn't change unless LeBron is playing at an all-NBA level into his late 30s.

If Kareem had been able to enter the league after high school he finishes with about 8k more points and discussions around longevity would seem silly. We shouldn't discount his longevity - or even normalise what he did - because he played in an era where most players spent four years at college.


Not to mention that you can't compare a player that started in 1970 to a player that started in 2003. Players today have a huge advantage when it comes to racking up years and staying in good shape.
\.

We've actually had people adjust for era longetivty, lebron still comes out even with kareem(and probably ahead after this postseason)
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1650 » by Homer38 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:31 am

Read on Twitter


Good answer even if this is maybe not true!
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1651 » by JVL » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:53 am

xb3at band1tx wrote:Anthony Davis this playoffs:

27.6 PPG
10.9 RPG
4.1 APG
1.1 SPG
1.5 BPG

58.6% FG
39.1% 3P
65.9 TS%
31.7 PER (1st)
+11 (1st) (1st)
Ws/48 3.13 (1st)


He's been playing out of his damn mind. He just meshes so incredibly well with Lebron, if only Bron was 5-7 years younger...they would've railroaded the league for the next decade.

I'm lowkey dreaming of one day seeing Doncic and AD playing together...a man can dream.
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-5th of November 2014 after the 3rd regular season game.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1652 » by DatAsh » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:25 pm

dreamshake wrote:If magic shoes and doctors extend your career so much, where are all these modern players playing 20+ years?


"Magic shoes" seems like a hyperbolic exaggeration to try and ridicule the idea. Playing 20+ years isn't just about how little you decline during those years, it also requires you to be start at a high enough level so that the decline doesn't put you out of the league, and very few players start at a high enough level to make that a reality. An average player with GOAT longevity probably isn't good enough to make a team after 20+ years, even if his decline is GOAT level. Lebron is a rare breed.

dreamshake wrote:Come on man, this is ridiculous. Only 8 guys have ever played 20 seasons. Only Vince has played 22, and he was hobbling around scoring 5 pts a game by the end. Kareem isn't playing 26 seasons. If magic shoes and doctors extend your career so much, where are all these modern players playing 20+ years?


Given that 1970 Kareem played 20 seasons, I have no problem seeing 2003 Kareem playing 23 seasons. It seems biased/dishonest(not saying your doing this intentionally) imo to pretend that modern medicine, nutrition, surgery, pt, etc. don't increase player longevity. IMO, 2 seasons(22 total) is the absolute minimum you should add if you're looking at things in an unbiased manner. I've been doing this for awhile when comparing longevity, and I think it's a much better way to compare. I add 4 years for Russell, 3 for Kareem, and 2 for Jordan when comparing longevity to modern players. I also add years for special longevity limiting circumstances that wouldn't play out the same today, like Magic's AIDS scandal. Just the way I look at things, but I realize it might be controversial.

And yes, I also realize this a Lebron thread, so I expect pushback when I praise other players in comparison to him. It seems like praise of other players in this thread (in comparison to Lebron) is always met with harsh criticism, which is a shame, imo. As Lebron fans, it's important for us to be honest and acknowledge other players advantages. I'm not trying to criticize Lebron's longevity. He's undoubtedly got near GOAT level longevity at this point, and that combined with his peak/prime is why I have him as the best player of all time(with a large gap between him and Jordan/Kareem/Russell). I'm praising Kareem's longevity, not dissing Lebron's. Lebron might end up with better longevity than Kareem(I kinda expect it), but he's not there yet.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1653 » by Joao Saraiva » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:52 pm

Well... with the Clippers being eliminated, it's now championship or bust. I think it's the time LBJ gets to a conference finals that I feel more like that.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1654 » by Arrow » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:35 pm

^I agree. The Nuggets and Celtics/Heat aren't chopped liver by any means, but they're not an all-time great team like the Warriors or Spurs were. If the Lakers don't win, I would view this as a bigger black mark on his career than 2011.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1655 » by Heej » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:43 pm

Homer38 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Good answer even if this is maybe not true!

In every interview these guys have been parroting the same line "control what you can control". Dunno whose lead they're following, whether it's LeBron or Vogel but I kinda do believe these guys are locked in to the present moment.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1656 » by Joey Wheeler » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:01 pm

Joao Saraiva wrote:Well... with the Clippers being eliminated, it's now championship or bust. I think it's the time LBJ gets to a conference finals that I feel more like that.


What does the Clippers being eliminated have to do with anything? Are we still acting as if they were ever going to be a threat? Never seen a good but not really great team get this hyped for no reason, even after losing to another good but not great team in the Nuggets. It's almost a shame the Clippers didn't make the WCF so they could get swept and this nonsense ended.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1657 » by mademan » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:21 pm

Lebron and AD should attack early and often and put Jokic in foul trouble. Have him playing tentatively all game
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1658 » by Baski » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:00 pm

Homer38 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Good answer even if this is maybe not true!

Pretty savage if you ask me
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1659 » by Baski » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:05 pm

Joey Wheeler wrote:
Joao Saraiva wrote:Well... with the Clippers being eliminated, it's now championship or bust. I think it's the time LBJ gets to a conference finals that I feel more like that.


What does the Clippers being eliminated have to do with anything? Are we still acting as if they were ever going to be a threat? Never seen a good but not really great team get this hyped for no reason, even after losing to another good but not great team in the Nuggets. It's almost a shame the Clippers didn't make the WCF so they could get swept and this nonsense ended.

Gotta hand it to you and AD man. You two called it from the get go.

I'm still uneasy about the Nuggets and the Heat/Celtics though, because it's so damn possible that the Lakers win. When was the last time a Lebron team had such a good shot at winning? 2015?
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1660 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:10 pm

Heej wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Heej wrote:This is gonna be a TOUGH series man. Lakers been living off trapping the last 2 series but the Nuggets are full of guys that can make you pay when there's a 4 on 3. Lakers are gonna have a lot of sequences where they get carved up running that lol. Almost wonder if they'll throw them a zone look or switch Jokic Murray PNR. But that means Jokic would draw an automatic double regardless. Very interested in seeing how this series goes. The stylistic matchup will be incredible


I feel we can play them straight up, more minutes with AD at the 5 or with dwight insteD of mcgee minutes since theyre both good fuarding the post

They wont trap murray, thats not a default thing it just worked well against portland because of roster and with harden we just rotated really well and took advantage of the rockets stagnation

Im curious if/how we will attack jokic on defense, the clips didnt really

Well what other coverage can you do vs their pnr that's not trap/show/hedge or switch. You're definitely not gonna play drop coverage because both Murray and Jokic can kill that with shooting. If you hard show or hedge you're still giving Jokic free reign to pop out to 3 and then attack the scrambling big man's closeout, if you trap he's just gonna kill you with the 4 on 3, if you switch he's just gonna kill that switch.

Jokic is the future of basketball. The 1-5 pnr is the one sacred PNR tandem that teams don't automatically want to kill by switching. This is the good stuff that gets teams in rotation, but you need a 5 who can both shoot and put the ball on the deck so that the other permutations of PNR schemes get countered and you essentially assure 2 on the ball every trip down the floor


I feel jokic is nearly the perfect roll man, but lack of athleticism means that hes not as big of a lob threat so that gives more space to recover or pick off the pass

Id assume they switch, they could run AD on murray since he can guard him, bron at pf and dwight on jokic, or we could do things to force murray to attack instead of jokic since he isnt nearly the passer
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