Giannis vs Anthony Davis

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Who's better?

Giannis
60
67%
Davis
30
33%
 
Total votes: 90

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Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#81 » by NO-KG-AI » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:18 am

This idea that AD needs special playmakers or LeBron to be efficient and that Giannis struggles in the half court because nobody can pass is ridiculous.

AD has been a ridiculous half court and off ball scorer whether it’s Demarcus Cousins, Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, Etwaun moore or whoever dishing. There is no indication right now that Giannis is anything special away from the ball, much less being possibly the best off ball player in the league in a good while like Davis is.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#82 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:21 am

GSP wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:If Giannis played with a playmaker and was put in a system that allowed him to get some easy buckets I don't see how he would be much less effective than Davis on offense. Yes, Davis can shoot - but shooting isn't literally the only thing that matters in the half court.

Put Davis in Milwaukee and I don't see him doing that well.


Milwaukee is built around Giannis and his inability to shoot or really be a threat past 10ft at the rim. He needs 4 out to be effective on offense b/c of his limitations. Ad is far more versatile, can play pick and roll or pop with any guard, can space the floor himself, handle at the post and his dribble drive game isnt predictable like Giannis.

In the regular season Bucks wouldnt be as dominant with Ad compared to Giannis but in the playoffs Miami isnt taken Ad out of the game by packing the paint and building a wall to thwart his transition game. Giannis sucks in the halfcourt and Khris Middleton and Brook Lopez were both more reliable options for Milwaukee. That would not be the case with Ad whos a far better halfcourt player

Not sure Giannis is even better defensively. As much as his offense got exposed on defense he was having alot of problems with Miamis offense and shooting. Ad is far more versatile and mobile on the perimeter.

Ad is just flatout better on both ends when the games slow down in the halfcourt in the playoffs. Giannis without transition is basically a more brutish and athletic Paskal Siakam in the halfcourt. Ad is a far superior playoff performer and he was even before this season


Milwaukee is built primarily around defense, which is why they have Eric Bledsoe. Eric Bledsoe is not a 4 out guard - Malcolm Brogdon very much is, and is not on the Bucks anymore. So I disagree that that is the primary reason the Bucks were built, and more importantly is not the optimal way to build the Bucks.

Also, having a primary playmaker and one that can play outside are not mutually exclusive things.

To say Giannis sucks in half court is an exaggeration. People keep saying it's easy to guard Giannis, but I'm pretty sure if you ask the NBA players he goes up against including the ones in the post season - they would probably giggle at that. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to keep him out of the paint, and while it is do-able it requires a ton of resources to accomplish that. If Giannis is given another star player then that would open up a punishment against this type of defense naturally. Aka, gravity.

Gravity only works if your teammates are at a certain threshold. Packing the paint is naturally going to severely hinder any one who is overly damaging in the paint, including Anthony Davis and even Lebron James. We have literally seen LBJ be severely hindered before when his teammates aren't good enough to exploit his gravity (by San Antonio in two different points in his career), LBJ has a very versatile game, but take away his ability to get lay ups and it's not hard for a legitimate team to out score him.


Giannis' stats this season are actually very comparable to Anthony Davis' from 2018 in the post season.

A lot of people will dismiss this as Orlando just defending Giannis poorly, but if we omit Anthony Davis first round series against the Blazers, then his stats in the second round against GSW are much more similar than they are different to Giannis.

Anthony Davis actually did "poorly" against GSW. GSW was the 11th ranked defense in 2018, the same exact defense as Miami. If you want to argue that GSW's defense is much better than it looks, you can very easily argue the same for Miami.

Anthony Davis only made .6 3s in that series at 25% - so that's out of the picture. He also averaged the same amount of free throws despite being a much better freethrow shooter than Giannis. Davis was well under 50% from the field. Now - the kicker is this, Anthony Davis averaged nearly 28 points against GSW - while Giannis averaged nearly 22 points.

Six points is a substantial difference but there are two things to keep in mind

Giannis only averaged 30 minutes per game - Anthony Davis averaged 40.5 minutes per game. So per 36, Giannis was actually more productive. This is not even taking into account that Giannis has to create his own offense and he more than doubled Davis APG as a result of that, while only averaging .2 more TOV. (Giannis had 5 APG on 2.8 TOV, Davis had 2 APG on 2.6 TOV). Giannis was more efficient while also having the production to match.

Number two, Giannis was heating up before he got injured. Giannis scored 19 points in 11 minutes - that doesn't sound like he was easy to guard at all. When you keep in mind that he was on pace to have like a 60 point game - he was basically injured prematurely on his best game of the series, and in a small sample size of only 3 games prior to that that makes a huge difference on his stats.


Looking at their round 2 performances against identically ranked defenses in the same round in the post season, it doesn't seem like Davis is much better on offense at all. I don't know why Giannis scoring 19 points in 11 minutes gets brushed under either, that's a pretty big deal - the take away people get is that the Bucks won without him...but like...they didn't. He got them 20 points out of barely playing, so obviously they would have won with him. Actually, without those hyper efficient 19 points the Bucks would have been swept.



EDIT: Also noticed that 3 of the games Davis played in were blowouts - so not all his numbers came in overly competitive situations. So yeah, his dominance in his 2018 post season is greatly overblown.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#83 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:25 am

Giannis wasn't significantly worse than Anthony Davis was in his last playoff run on offense. If you want to say Giannis' PER or scoring is bloated by the first round - then if we omit the first round from both....that statement is still true, Giannis is just as productive as Davis but is more efficient, and even is less turnover prone than Anthony Davis which is among Davis' greatest strengths. Extra kudos to the fact that both guys played the 11th ranked defense in round 2.

I think people are very much letting aesthetics of the game get in way of their judgement, along with the typical "this guys team lost so their main guy sucks". Yes, Giannis was defended well, we've seen Steph Curry defended well also by throwing the farm at him. It's overblown how "easy" it is to defend Giannis, yeah, it's easy if you basically double team him with another guy hedging (so a triple team essentially) - that is generally where having star power on your team comes into hand.

On top of that, not having another playmaker absolutely matters - and is almost a universal rule in any contending team that having multiple playmakers is a good thing. That isn't a Giannis exclusive weakness.
NO-KG-AI wrote:This idea that AD needs special playmakers or LeBron to be efficient and that Giannis struggles in the half court because nobody can pass is ridiculous.

AD has been a ridiculous half court and off ball scorer whether it’s Demarcus Cousins, Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, Etwaun moore or whoever dishing. There is no indication right now that Giannis is anything special away from the ball, much less being possibly the best off ball player in the league in a good while like Davis is.


The first 3 players you mentioned are good playmakers - and two of them are worthy of double teams or can dominate their individual defender. Jrue Holiday is also a natural passer even though he averages modest APG - as opposed to George Hill or Eric Bledsoe. How is this a good example of Davis' independancy? No, he does not "need" Lebron James. But there is a lot of middle ground between Lebron James and Eric Bledsoe.


There doesn't need to be mountains of evidence, it is rather obvious that easy buckets are a good thing. Giannis does not need to be "the best off ball player" for playmaking to benefit his game. Where is the evidence that someone creating a shot for Giannis would be a bad thing? You are basically saying that Budenholzers system and Milwaukee's roster is perfectly built for Giannis and that his cap - which to me sounds equally ridiculous.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#84 » by Baski » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:23 pm

Also to add to that, AD is playing terrific alongside Lebron, and would still play great alongside whatever decent playmaker you wanna give him, but there's a big difference between the two. You gotta account for the sizeable gap between Lebron and whatever decent guy would also make AD play great. Can't just wave it away like all Lebron is doing for him is running PnRs while looking like a good starter/Allstar. Lebron adds wins to a team on a level rarely seen before. It's definitely not as simple as "he doesn't need Lebron specifically"
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#85 » by Jiminy Glick » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:48 pm

People think Giannis didn't perform well for the 2020 playoffs but actually Giannis had his best playoff run in terms of total stats in terms of scoring. Per 36 he had his highest scoring average by a lot and his best eFG%. His team doesn't pass the Bull's test. Does he have a player on his team as good as Pippen? No. Does he have a player on his team as good as Grant? No. Thus he should leave the team.

He finished with averages of 21/11/5 against the Heat, that is with only playing about 11 minutes in game 4. Anyways the 21/11/5 averages are similar to Duncan in his overall 2004 playoff performance of 22/11/5 in about 41 minutes a game. It is also similar to Garnett's overall 2001 playoff performance of 21/12/4 in about 41 minutes a game also.

I actually think he does too much for his height and body type and that is why his style gives him a higher probability of hurting his ankle, similar to Durant, and I think the same for Simmons. At about 7 feet he really should be in the post more and doing less body movements, especially the moves he does, could be a recipe for disaster, better to play it safe. Putting him in the post increases offensive flow also.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#86 » by MyUniBroDavis » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:10 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:People think Giannis didn't perform well for the 2020 playoffs but actually Giannis had his best playoff run in terms of total stats in terms of scoring. Per 36 he had his highest scoring average by a lot and his best eFG%. His team doesn't pass the Bull's test. Does he have a player on his team as good as Pippen? No. Does he have a player on his team as good as Grant? No. Thus he should leave the team.

He finished with averages of 21/11/5 against the Heat, that is with only playing about 11 minutes in game 4. Anyways the 21/11/5 averages are similar to Duncan in his overall 2004 playoff performance of 22/11/5 in about 41 minutes a game. It is also similar to Garnett's overall 2001 playoff performance of 21/12/4 in about 41 minutes a game also.

I actually think he does too much for his height and body type and that is why his style gives him a higher probability of hurting his ankle, similar to Durant, and I think the same for Simmons. At about 7 feet he really should be in the post more and doing less body movements, especially the moves he does, could be a recipe for disaster, better to play it safe. Putting him in the post increases offensive flow also.



You cant compare numbers accross eras like that giannis isnt really at fault but his performance wasnt up to standard
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#87 » by MyUniBroDavis » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:12 pm

Baski wrote:Also to add to that, AD is playing terrific alongside Lebron, and would still play great alongside whatever decent playmaker you wanna give him, but there's a big difference between the two. You gotta account for the sizeable gap between Lebron and whatever decent guy would also make AD play great. Can't just wave it away like all Lebron is doing for him is running PnRs while looking like a good starter/Allstar. Lebron adds wins to a team on a level rarely seen before. It's definitely not as simple as "he doesn't need Lebron specifically"


The team as a while lacks playmaking and spacing though, davis is getting assisted less than he has every other year in his career
iggymcfrack wrote: I have Bird #19 and Kobe #20 on my all-time list and both guys will probably get passed by Jokic by the end of this season.


^^^^ posted January 8 2023 :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#88 » by Jiminy Glick » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:31 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Jiminy Glick wrote:People think Giannis didn't perform well for the 2020 playoffs but actually Giannis had his best playoff run in terms of total stats in terms of scoring. Per 36 he had his highest scoring average by a lot and his best eFG%. His team doesn't pass the Bull's test. Does he have a player on his team as good as Pippen? No. Does he have a player on his team as good as Grant? No. Thus he should leave the team.

He finished with averages of 21/11/5 against the Heat, that is with only playing about 11 minutes in game 4. Anyways the 21/11/5 averages are similar to Duncan in his overall 2004 playoff performance of 22/11/5 in about 41 minutes a game. It is also similar to Garnett's overall 2001 playoff performance of 21/12/4 in about 41 minutes a game also.

I actually think he does too much for his height and body type and that is why his style gives him a higher probability of hurting his ankle, similar to Durant, and I think the same for Simmons. At about 7 feet he really should be in the post more and doing less body movements, especially the moves he does, could be a recipe for disaster, better to play it safe. Putting him in the post increases offensive flow also.



You cant compare numbers accross eras like that giannis isnt really at fault but his performance wasnt up to standard


That is true. I disagree that he isn't at fault though, he is at fault for game 1, and when did he get hurt in game 3?
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#89 » by Rapcity_11 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:52 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Ok then so is 2018 harden better than peak jordan?

Harden objectively takes more of a load in his offense even though they have similar statistical output. Literally ever single possession is a harden iso and working off of that.

No, of course not, because thats not how basketball works


This would be relevant if Harden actually had a similar statistical output as peak Jordan.

Giannis is in a better situation for his talents and offensively he FAILED. The fact that you dont understand that fit, coaching, and role are important things is ridiculous. Youre literally just too lazy to analyze whats happening in the games and each players attributes and just saying "well yeah um the bucks were better so ok Ecks dee"

No, thats not how it works. Giannis failed in what he was supposed to do, the two drivers of what makes him good on offense were accomplished at a below average or average rate.

The things that hold him back on offense were on full display more so than ever

The fact that the bucks were able to score doesnt change that giannis himself did not perform well.


Giannis doesn't play with a single guy who can create for themselves or others off the dribble. He's forced to create most of his offense for himself off the dribble. How is that a better situation for his talents?

Why do you keep ignoring that fact that AD isn't good enough to drive an offense?

You cant argue about how two players played in a series without analyzing hiw they played in the damn series lmfao. You havent said anything that would make it seem like you didnr watch the game on an espn play by play tracker


You caught me. I don't watch basketball.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#90 » by homecourtloss » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:57 pm

Imagine this thread was made four weeks ago—the poll would be 85%+ in favor of Giannis. I think we did have a thread like this earlier this year and that’s what people said.

That regular season Giannis had can’t just be hand-waved away. Neither can the fact that AD was -2.1 per 100 possessions in 676 minutes with LeBron off the court this season.

Now, that Miami series was really bad for Giannis as far as his specific weaknesses are concerned, and I was surprised at how badly the Bucks were outplayed with Giannis on court. Additionally, AD has been phenomenal thus far in the playoffs, so I can see why people want to shift towards AD. But it’s just not enough games and minutes for me. If AD is better than LeBron in the WCF and then the Finals if they get there then I can begin to see it, but not now.

Additionally, AD has to have a dominant regular season run in which he’s better than just +5 to +6 on court per 100 possessions. He’s never been better than +6 on court and as a supposed top 5 player or better than Giannis,mthwts just not good enough. If he were dominant like he has been in these playoffs, Lakers might have lost like 8-9 games the entire year.

Also, I see why people think Giannis and LeBron wouldn’t work as well together, but I think they’d be dominant in a slightly different way.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.

lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#91 » by homecourtloss » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:02 pm

Jiminy Glick wrote:People think Giannis didn't perform well for the 2020 playoffs but actually Giannis had his best playoff run in terms of total stats in terms of scoring. Per 36 he had his highest scoring average by a lot and his best eFG%. His team doesn't pass the Bull's test. Does he have a player on his team as good as Pippen? No. Does he have a player on his team as good as Grant? No. Thus he should leave the team.

He finished with averages of 21/11/5 against the Heat, that is with only playing about 11 minutes in game 4. Anyways the 21/11/5 averages are similar to Duncan in his overall 2004 playoff performance of 22/11/5 in about 41 minutes a game. It is also similar to Garnett's overall 2001 playoff performance of 21/12/4 in about 41 minutes a game also.

I actually think he does too much for his height and body type and that is why his style gives him a higher probability of hurting his ankle, similar to Durant, and I think the same for Simmons. At about 7 feet he really should be in the post more and doing less body movements, especially the moves he does, could be a recipe for disaster, better to play it safe. Putting him in the post increases offensive flow also.


The Bucks had an ORtg of 100.4 when Giannis was on court (116 minutes) against Miami and 109.8 with Giannis off court (126 minutes). That’s not all Gainnis’s fault, but he has to shoulder some of that blame on offense as the focal point especially since we saw similar limitations last year.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.

lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#92 » by MyUniBroDavis » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:14 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Ok then so is 2018 harden better than peak jordan?

Harden objectively takes more of a load in his offense even though they have similar statistical output. Literally ever single possession is a harden iso and working off of that.

No, of course not, because thats not how basketball works


This would be relevant if Harden actually had a similar statistical output as peak Jordan.

Giannis is in a better situation for his talents and offensively he FAILED. The fact that you dont understand that fit, coaching, and role are important things is ridiculous. Youre literally just too lazy to analyze whats happening in the games and each players attributes and just saying "well yeah um the bucks were better so ok Ecks dee"

No, thats not how it works. Giannis failed in what he was supposed to do, the two drivers of what makes him good on offense were accomplished at a below average or average rate.

The things that hold him back on offense were on full display more so than ever

The fact that the bucks were able to score doesnt change that giannis himself did not perform well.


Giannis doesn't play with a single guy who can create for themselves or others off the dribble. He's forced to create most of his offense for himself off the dribble. How is that a better situation for his talents?

Why do you keep ignoring that fact that AD isn't good enough to drive an offense?

You cant argue about how two players played in a series without analyzing hiw they played in the damn series lmfao. You havent said anything that would make it seem like you didnr watch the game on an espn play by play tracker


You caught me. I don't watch basketball.


Eric bledsoe and khris middleton apparently dont exist

The fact that your saying this when ive replied like 20 times to this this thread and multiple times to you makes me feel like im talking to a brick wall lmfao

I went "analyze what happens in the game and their role in the offense" and this man really went

*dodge

After looking the bucks roster up and down, and saying hes in a hard situation, looked at it up and down again, hoverred his mouse over bledsoe, and said no one could create off the dribble for himself or others

Hell even middleton can even tho he bruh at slashing lol

But bledsoe, who is (lets use stats correctly) in the 80-90th percentile is ball handling pick and roll, isos, passes out of isos, and passes from the pick and roll

Middleton meanwhile ranks similarly in the 70th to 80th percentiles

But they have no ability at all

And then went

Well giannis has to create his own offense in a 5 out system with among the best spacing in the league therefore he is in a HORRIBLE situation this is like the 09 cavs but 100 times worse how dare you bucks put him in a tragic painful situation such as this one smh

Giannis is in a tough situation

Is this a prank lmfao
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#93 » by Rapcity_11 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:53 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Ok then so is 2018 harden better than peak jordan?

Harden objectively takes more of a load in his offense even though they have similar statistical output. Literally ever single possession is a harden iso and working off of that.

No, of course not, because thats not how basketball works


This would be relevant if Harden actually had a similar statistical output as peak Jordan.

Giannis is in a better situation for his talents and offensively he FAILED. The fact that you dont understand that fit, coaching, and role are important things is ridiculous. Youre literally just too lazy to analyze whats happening in the games and each players attributes and just saying "well yeah um the bucks were better so ok Ecks dee"

No, thats not how it works. Giannis failed in what he was supposed to do, the two drivers of what makes him good on offense were accomplished at a below average or average rate.

The things that hold him back on offense were on full display more so than ever

The fact that the bucks were able to score doesnt change that giannis himself did not perform well.


Giannis doesn't play with a single guy who can create for themselves or others off the dribble. He's forced to create most of his offense for himself off the dribble. How is that a better situation for his talents?

Why do you keep ignoring that fact that AD isn't good enough to drive an offense?

You cant argue about how two players played in a series without analyzing hiw they played in the damn series lmfao. You havent said anything that would make it seem like you didnr watch the game on an espn play by play tracker


You caught me. I don't watch basketball.


Eric bledsoe and khris middleton apparently dont exist

The fact that your saying this when ive replied like 20 times to this this thread and multiple times to you makes me feel like im talking to a brick wall lmfao

I went "analyze what happens in the game and their role in the offense" and this man really went

*dodge

After looking the bucks roster up and down, and saying hes in a hard situation, looked at it up and down again, hoverred his mouse over bledsoe, and said no one could create off the dribble for himself or others

Hell even middleton can even tho he bruh at slashing lol

But bledsoe, who is (lets use stats correctly) in the 80-90th percentile is ball handling pick and roll, isos, passes out of isos, and passes from the pick and roll

Middleton meanwhile ranks similarly in the 70th to 80th percentiles

But they have no ability at all

And then went

Well giannis has to create his own offense in a 5 out system with among the best spacing in the league therefore he is in a HORRIBLE situation this is like the 09 cavs but 100 times worse how dare you bucks put him in a tragic painful situation such as this one smh

Giannis is in a tough situation

Is this a prank lmfao


Neither Bledsoe or Middleton are big-time creators off the dribble, especially in the playoffs. Do you watch them or just look at data? I mean, go look at some Bledsoe and Middleton playoff film.

Giannis isn't in a tough situation, but it's far from ideal. It's OK to acknowledge that and not lose your AD homer card.

AD isn't good enough to drive an offense, which is why his role was what it was in NO. Why do you keep avoiding that topic?
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#94 » by Joey Wheeler » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:06 pm

homecourtloss wrote:Imagine this thread was made four weeks ago—the poll would be 85%+ in favor of Giannis. I think we did have a thread like this earlier this year and that’s what people said.

That regular season Giannis had can’t just be hand-waved away. Neither can the fact that AD was -2.1 per 100 possessions in 676 minutes with LeBron off the court this season.

Now, that Miami series was really bad for Giannis as far as his specific weaknesses are concerned, and I was surprised at how badly the Bucks were outplayed with Giannis on court. Additionally, AD has been phenomenal thus far in the playoffs, so I can see why people want to shift towards AD. But it’s just not enough games and minutes for me. If AD is better than LeBron in the WCF and then the Finals if they get there then I can begin to see it, but not now.

Additionally, AD has to have a dominant regular season run in which he’s better than just +5 to +6 on court per 100 possessions. He’s never been better than +6 on court and as a supposed top 5 player or better than Giannis,mthwts just not good enough. If he were dominant like he has been in these playoffs, Lakers mightnhwve loet like 8-9 games the entire year.

Also, I see why people think Giannis and LeBron wouldn’t work as well together, but I think they’d be dominant in a slightly different way.


So less people are wrong now, that's positive. This is not even close, AD is superior on both ends of the court.

AD not being able to anchor an offense is completely meaningless in this discussion because Giannis isn't either against tough playoff defenses.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#95 » by MyUniBroDavis » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:13 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
This would be relevant if Harden actually had a similar statistical output as peak Jordan.



Giannis doesn't play with a single guy who can create for themselves or others off the dribble. He's forced to create most of his offense for himself off the dribble. How is that a better situation for his talents?

Why do you keep ignoring that fact that AD isn't good enough to drive an offense?



You caught me. I don't watch basketball.


Eric bledsoe and khris middleton apparently dont exist

The fact that your saying this when ive replied like 20 times to this this thread and multiple times to you makes me feel like im talking to a brick wall lmfao

I went "analyze what happens in the game and their role in the offense" and this man really went

*dodge

After looking the bucks roster up and down, and saying hes in a hard situation, looked at it up and down again, hoverred his mouse over bledsoe, and said no one could create off the dribble for himself or others

Hell even middleton can even tho he bruh at slashing lol

But bledsoe, who is (lets use stats correctly) in the 80-90th percentile is ball handling pick and roll, isos, passes out of isos, and passes from the pick and roll

Middleton meanwhile ranks similarly in the 70th to 80th percentiles

But they have no ability at all

And then went

Well giannis has to create his own offense in a 5 out system with among the best spacing in the league therefore he is in a HORRIBLE situation this is like the 09 cavs but 100 times worse how dare you bucks put him in a tragic painful situation such as this one smh

Giannis is in a tough situation

Is this a prank lmfao


Neither Bledsoe or Middleton are big-time creators off the dribble, especially in the playoffs. Do you watch them or just look at data? I mean, go look at some Bledsoe and Middleton playoff film.

Giannis isn't in a tough situation, but it's far from ideal. It's OK to acknowledge that and not lose your AD homer card.

AD isn't good enough to drive an offense, which is why his role was what it was in NO. Why do you keep avoiding that topic?


1. You are literally the last person in the planet who can tell me this after saying bledsoe, a pg slasher that is a good playmaker off the pick and roll, cant create off the dribble lmfao

What does he do catch and shoot lol. Again you really went "do you look at stats only" when i pointed out game specific stuff and went tk synergy data when you uhh looked at bball ref lol

2. Giannis is in a 5 out offense as the primary ball handler it is literally the archetypical good situation for a slasher lmfao what are you on about

3. I picked giannis over AD in the poll lol

4. AD not being a primary ball handler doesnt mean he is worse lmfao what you on about. I havent avoided this topic its been you unable to comprehend that role and responsibility arent the same thing as importance

Just because AD isnt handling the ball doesnt mean the offense isnt built around him

Literally the only difference is that ideally around giannis you want spacing while around davis you want spacing + 2-3 guys that know how to run the pick and roll competently, and yes bledsoe more than qualifies.

Like genuinly, bledsoe +'collision would be plenty lmfao he doesnt need a nash or anything
iggymcfrack wrote: I have Bird #19 and Kobe #20 on my all-time list and both guys will probably get passed by Jokic by the end of this season.


^^^^ posted January 8 2023 :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#96 » by Rapcity_11 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:24 pm

Joey Wheeler wrote:
AD not being able to anchor an offense is completely meaningless in this discussion because Giannis isn't either against tough playoff defenses.


vs 18 Celtics: 108.7 Ortg
vs 19 Celtics: 107.7 Ortg
vs 19 Raptors: 104.9 Ortg

Those are solid results. Not great, but solid.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#97 » by Rapcity_11 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:28 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
1. You are literally the last person in the planet who can tell me this after saying bledsoe, a pg slasher that is a good playmaker off the pick and roll, cant create off the dribble lmfao

What does he do catch and shoot lol. Again you really went "do you look at stats only" when i pointed out game specific stuff and went tk synergy data when you uhh looked at bball ref lol

2. Giannis is in a 5 out offense as the primary ball handler it is literally the archetypical good situation for a slasher lmfao what are you on about

3. I picked giannis over AD in the poll lol

4. AD not being a primary ball handler doesnt mean he is worse lmfao what you on about. I havent avoided this topic its been you unable to comprehend that role and responsibility arent the same thing as importance

Just because AD isnt handling the ball doesnt mean the offense isnt built around him

Literally the only difference is that ideally around giannis you want spacing while around davis you want spacing + 2-3 guys that know how to run the pick and roll competently, and yes bledsoe more than qualifies.

Like genuinly, bledsoe +'collision would be plenty lmfao he doesnt need a nash or anything


1. Have you ever watched Bledsoe in the playoffs? Apparently not.

2. It's not 5 out when teams ignore Bledsoe, Connaughton and Divincenzo. Also, why would Giannis solely operating as a slasher be optimal for him? He would be amazing operating more as a finisher, ala Davis. Too bad he doesn't have that luxury.

4. It doesn't make him "worse", but it's absolutely a significant strike against him.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#98 » by MyUniBroDavis » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:44 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
1. You are literally the last person in the planet who can tell me this after saying bledsoe, a pg slasher that is a good playmaker off the pick and roll, cant create off the dribble lmfao

What does he do catch and shoot lol. Again you really went "do you look at stats only" when i pointed out game specific stuff and went tk synergy data when you uhh looked at bball ref lol

2. Giannis is in a 5 out offense as the primary ball handler it is literally the archetypical good situation for a slasher lmfao what are you on about

3. I picked giannis over AD in the poll lol

4. AD not being a primary ball handler doesnt mean he is worse lmfao what you on about. I havent avoided this topic its been you unable to comprehend that role and responsibility arent the same thing as importance

Just because AD isnt handling the ball doesnt mean the offense isnt built around him

Literally the only difference is that ideally around giannis you want spacing while around davis you want spacing + 2-3 guys that know how to run the pick and roll competently, and yes bledsoe more than qualifies.

Like genuinly, bledsoe +'collision would be plenty lmfao he doesnt need a nash or anything


1. Have you ever watched Bledsoe in the playoffs? Apparently not.

2. It's not 5 out when teams ignore Bledsoe, Connaughton and Divincenzo. Also, why would Giannis solely operating as a slasher be optimal for him? He would be amazing operating more as a finisher, ala Davis. Too bad he doesn't have that luxury.

4. It doesn't make him "worse", but it's absolutely a significant strike against him.


1. Bledsoe having a bad series wouldnt mean that he couldnt run a basic pick and roll with a good off vall big man lmfao. You dont randomly lose vision thats not how it works.

2. Wtf yes it is lol That just means they defended it different by by defintion it is literally 5 out. Ive already discussed how in the raptors series them building a wall and leaving shooters isnt enough of an excuse for why giannis couldnt hit the right passes or found them way to late if at all. Thats literally giannis's preferred playstyle

3. Lmao wtf how.

Literally a bledsoe + collision backcourt would be fine
iggymcfrack wrote: I have Bird #19 and Kobe #20 on my all-time list and both guys will probably get passed by Jokic by the end of this season.


^^^^ posted January 8 2023 :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#99 » by Baski » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:59 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Baski wrote:Also to add to that, AD is playing terrific alongside Lebron, and would still play great alongside whatever decent playmaker you wanna give him, but there's a big difference between the two. You gotta account for the sizeable gap between Lebron and whatever decent guy would also make AD play great. Can't just wave it away like all Lebron is doing for him is running PnRs while looking like a good starter/Allstar. Lebron adds wins to a team on a level rarely seen before. It's definitely not as simple as "he doesn't need Lebron specifically"


The team as a while lacks playmaking and spacing though, davis is getting assisted less than he has every other year in his career

I agree. But that only means that with more spacing and playmaking the 2020 Lakers might be the GOAT team. It doesn't necessarily address the chasm between Lebron and pretty much any other playmaker that might replace him. The **** he does to opposing defenses is scary sometimes and I believe without him (with someone else in his place other than maybe Curry) the Davis Lakers don't look as dominant compared to the Giannis Bucks.
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Re: Giannis vs Anthony Davis 

Post#100 » by Baski » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:19 pm

Joey Wheeler wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:Imagine this thread was made four weeks ago—the poll would be 85%+ in favor of Giannis. I think we did have a thread like this earlier this year and that’s what people said.

That regular season Giannis had can’t just be hand-waved away. Neither can the fact that AD was -2.1 per 100 possessions in 676 minutes with LeBron off the court this season.

Now, that Miami series was really bad for Giannis as far as his specific weaknesses are concerned, and I was surprised at how badly the Bucks were outplayed with Giannis on court. Additionally, AD has been phenomenal thus far in the playoffs, so I can see why people want to shift towards AD. But it’s just not enough games and minutes for me. If AD is better than LeBron in the WCF and then the Finals if they get there then I can begin to see it, but not now.

Additionally, AD has to have a dominant regular season run in which he’s better than just +5 to +6 on court per 100 possessions. He’s never been better than +6 on court and as a supposed top 5 player or better than Giannis,mthwts just not good enough. If he were dominant like he has been in these playoffs, Lakers mightnhwve loet like 8-9 games the entire year.

Also, I see why people think Giannis and LeBron wouldn’t work as well together, but I think they’d be dominant in a slightly different way.


So less people are wrong now, that's positive. This is not even close, AD is superior on both ends of the court.

AD not being able to anchor an offense is completely meaningless in this discussion because Giannis isn't either against tough playoff defenses.

This caveat rares its head again. Is AD anchoring a better offense in Giannis' place?
Feels like Giannis is actually being penalized for having a better skillset than AD. If Giannis had AD's skillset or was "only" as good as him, he'd also be leading mediocre teams until he was 27 and then demand a trade to play with Luka or Tatum or Trae. Then when they crush the league together, we'd come back here and put him over Zion for losing in the 2nd round next to Lonzo and Ingram.
Instead Giannis is leading elite teams right now, and has the chance to do all that in addition to this. How this is being seen as a negative in comparison to Davis of all people, instead of another do-it-all type guy, is strange to me.

I'm actually kinda surprised because this is pretty clearly Lebron's 3-6 all over again but noone seems to notice. Now all Giannis has to do is force the trade or bolt in FA.

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