Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years

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?

Jokic now and for the next 5 years
10
13%
Doncic now and for the next 5 years
35
46%
Jokic now but Doncic for the next 5 years
29
38%
Doncic now but Jokic for the next 5 years
2
3%
 
Total votes: 76

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Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#1 » by GSP » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:14 am

Jokic or Luka which of these 2 would you select?
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#2 » by Ascrilas » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:50 am

Jokic right now. However, I think this will be the last season where Jokic is better than Doncic. I expect Luka to make another leap next year and potentially be the best player in the league, so gimme him for the next 5 years and beyond.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#3 » by therealbig3 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:06 am

Doncic now and for the next 5 years. I think he's a top 5 player in the league right now, and he's only 21. He's ridiculous.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#4 » by skones » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:46 am

Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. Jokic is more impactful this season, but I expect that to not be the case moving forward.

People want to leave Jokic out of the legitimate superstar top 5 player conversation because he's white, he's doughy, and not particularly athletic. This despite his leading the Nuggets to back to back 50 win seasons (on pace this year) in the vaunted Western Conference without a second star anywhere to be found in the lineup. He's there.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#5 » by GSP » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:39 am

skones wrote:Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. Jokic is more impactful this season, but I expect that to not be the case moving forward.

People want to leave Jokic out of the legitimate superstar top 5 player conversation because he's white, he's doughy, and not particularly athletic. This despite his leading the Nuggets to back to back 50 win seasons (on pace this year) in the vaunted Western Conference without a second star anywhere to be found in the lineup. He's there.


Murray this season is clearly star caliber. He will most likely make the all star game next season
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#6 » by E-Balla » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:36 am

Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. The Nuggets supporting cast isn't better than the Dallas one.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#7 » by skones » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:44 pm

GSP wrote:
skones wrote:Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. Jokic is more impactful this season, but I expect that to not be the case moving forward.

People want to leave Jokic out of the legitimate superstar top 5 player conversation because he's white, he's doughy, and not particularly athletic. This despite his leading the Nuggets to back to back 50 win seasons (on pace this year) in the vaunted Western Conference without a second star anywhere to be found in the lineup. He's there.


Murray this season is clearly star caliber. He will most likely make the all star game next season


Based on what? Four games in the first round? Nobody was calling Murray a star prior to the playoffs and it'll take more than a handful of games to change that. Need I remind you that a little more than a month ago you posted:

GSP wrote:Mpj is already better than Murray not even joking


How quickly things change.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#8 » by Whopper_Sr » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:08 pm

Jokic now and for the next 5 years. Doncic will likely be the better player going forward but I'll have to see it happen first. He's still a bit raw.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#9 » by Woodsanity » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:09 pm

Both are very close right now. Think Jokic is marginally better right now but I take Doncic for the next 5 years since he is much younger.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#10 » by mademan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:15 pm

GSP wrote:
skones wrote:Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. Jokic is more impactful this season, but I expect that to not be the case moving forward.

People want to leave Jokic out of the legitimate superstar top 5 player conversation because he's white, he's doughy, and not particularly athletic. This despite his leading the Nuggets to back to back 50 win seasons (on pace this year) in the vaunted Western Conference without a second star anywhere to be found in the lineup. He's there.


Murray this season is clearly star caliber. He will most likely make the all star game next season


Harden/Curry/Dame/Doncic....and thats just the top. He would need a pretty big jump to make the AS game just over a guy like Booker, who's not guaranteed himself.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#11 » by Dundalis » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:44 pm

E-Balla wrote:Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. The Nuggets supporting cast isn't better than the Dallas one.

Lol what? Don't come out of the woodwork about how all of Dallas' no name players that no one ever heard of are suddenly really good players. Dallas has literally 2 good starters in Luka and KP. Not one of the other players for the Mavs have spent more time starting in the NBA vs being on the bench, and they are not young players. Besides Luka and KP, Dallas is a team full of solid role players best suited playing off the bench (and a few who shouldn't be on NBA teams at all like Jackson). Biggest need is actual good NBA starters, a problem Denver don't have.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#12 » by MyUniBroDavis » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:00 pm

Dundalis wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. The Nuggets supporting cast isn't better than the Dallas one.

Lol what? Don't come out of the woodwork about how all of Dallas' no name players that no one ever heard of are suddenly really good players. Dallas has literally 2 good starters in Luka and KP. Not one of the other players for the Mavs have spent more time starting in the NBA vs being on the bench, and they are not young players. Besides Luka and KP, Dallas is a team full of solid role players best suited playing off the bench (and a few who shouldn't be on NBA teams at all like Jackson). Biggest need is actual good NBA starters, a problem Denver don't have.


The dalla offense is the best in the league with luka off the floor tho lol, theyre 7-7 without him and 4 lf their losses were by less than 5 (whereas onlye one of their wins are, against milwakee)
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#13 » by E-Balla » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:47 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Dundalis wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. The Nuggets supporting cast isn't better than the Dallas one.

Lol what? Don't come out of the woodwork about how all of Dallas' no name players that no one ever heard of are suddenly really good players. Dallas has literally 2 good starters in Luka and KP. Not one of the other players for the Mavs have spent more time starting in the NBA vs being on the bench, and they are not young players. Besides Luka and KP, Dallas is a team full of solid role players best suited playing off the bench (and a few who shouldn't be on NBA teams at all like Jackson). Biggest need is actual good NBA starters, a problem Denver don't have.


The dalla offense is the best in the league with luka off the floor tho lol, theyre 7-7 without him and 4 lf their losses were by less than 5 (whereas onlye one of their wins are, against milwakee)

Exactly. And KP is a no name player? Like his post is absurd.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#14 » by Pelly24 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:21 am

I think I give it to Luka now and the next five years, but it's kind of close at the moment. To me they're very similar players in that they're extraordinarily skilled with vision and IQ as good as it gets. Jokic is a better clutch player at the moment, Luka's brand of playmaking I think is more valuable because he can get anywhere he wants. Jokic is definitely a better shooter but Luka can come around. We'll see. I think Jokic's defense at the center position mught make him harder to build around. That's just for now.

Luka I think will take another leap and possibly win the MVP next year and be the next best player in the game. His ability to get wherever he wants gives him a big advantage. This guy is simply a marvelous offensive player. Next step will be getting his midrange/floater game up to the low to mid-40s on more volume while getting his three-ball to about 35% and getting his free throw line percentage to at least the high-70s. I think this will help him overcome his clutch issues from the regulae season. I also think the midrange game is great for closing out close games. Sometimes you just need a bucket even if it's not the ideal shot. With his size and handle and strength and creativity, he could be an excellent midrange player and I think that would make him unstoppable on his own. Doncic knows the value of this and he takes that shot to stop the bleeding. Kyrie and CP3 do this a lot too. MJ, Kobe and Kawhi are obvious cases of this being super effective. The three-ball would obviously be great as well. If he significantly improves two out of these three areas I suspect he'll be completely unguardable on offense. He should also watch film and become at least a neutral defender. All of this is reachable.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#15 » by Dundalis » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:40 am

E-Balla wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Dundalis wrote:Lol what? Don't come out of the woodwork about how all of Dallas' no name players that no one ever heard of are suddenly really good players. Dallas has literally 2 good starters in Luka and KP. Not one of the other players for the Mavs have spent more time starting in the NBA vs being on the bench, and they are not young players. Besides Luka and KP, Dallas is a team full of solid role players best suited playing off the bench (and a few who shouldn't be on NBA teams at all like Jackson). Biggest need is actual good NBA starters, a problem Denver don't have.


The dalla offense is the best in the league with luka off the floor tho lol, theyre 7-7 without him and 4 lf their losses were by less than 5 (whereas onlye one of their wins are, against milwakee)

Exactly. And KP is a no name player? Like his post is absurd.

You're full of it. At the start of the season no one was talking about Dallas even with KP, because no one knew anyone else on the team. Yeah, Kleber and Finney Smith, and Seth Curry and Hardaway Jnr. All these established, well known quality NBA starters. Please. Literally every player of significance put up career shooting years or close to it this season. At the same time. These aren't young players in their early 20's with no or little NBA history. A bunch of guys in their late 20's all having career shooting years at once. That's not indicative of Dallas having an incredible team. It's a whole bunch of luck, combined with a great system implemented by an elite coach and a heap of pressure taken off these role players to produce because literally everything falls on the shoulders of a 21 year old, so they get to comfortably play their role without having to do more than their talent level allows. But yeah, pretend that because the offensive efficiency (not the offense itself, there is in fact a difference) was the best ever, this is some team with elite offensive talent around Luka. There's literally not one player outside Luka that can reliably create their own offense. Even KP needs to be fed, and his TS is 55.1% during the season, which is a career best, yet still not very good.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#16 » by advent11 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:42 am

E-Balla wrote:Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. The Nuggets supporting cast isn't better than the Dallas one.


If KP is healthy and in form (not getting back into basketball shape after recovering from a torn ACL), I would agree, but he wasn't for most of the season including the playoffs. I don't see how this detracts from Luka. Dallas had the higher SRS this season by a comfortable margin. Denver has advanced further in the playoffs but If Murray had similar availability issues as KP did in the first round, they wouldn't have advanced against the Jazz.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#17 » by Dundalis » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:04 am

advent11 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Jokic now, Doncic for the next 5. The Nuggets supporting cast isn't better than the Dallas one.


If KP is healthy and in form (not getting back into basketball shape after recovering from a torn ACL), I would agree, but he wasn't for most of the season including the playoffs. I don't see how this detracts from Luka. Dallas had the higher SRS this season by a comfortable margin. Denver has advanced further in the playoffs but If Murray had similar availability issues as KP did in the first round, they wouldn't have advanced against the Jazz.

Take out Luka and KP for the Mavs, and Jokic and Murray for the Nuggets, I'd take the Nuggets remaining starting 3 over the Mavs every day of the week. A lot of the incredible efficiency numbers the Mavs put up are generated by both having Luka take away pressure and the system implemented by Carlisle that emphasises volume shooting of 3's and shots at the rim (highest value shots). Every team is moving towards this, but the Mavs do it to an extreme. A lot of talk of the Mavs breaking the efficiency marks, but a whole bunch of teams were close (pretty sure the Clippers also broke the old record), and a whole bunch of teams will almost certainly break it next season. There's a reason someone like THJ shot 39.8% from 3 this season when his career best is 36.3%. It's not because he turned into a dead eye shooter overnight after 8 seasons in the NBA. Finney Smith 37.6% when his best is 31.1%. Kleber 37.3% career best 35.3%. There's a whole bunch of outliers occuring at once here.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#18 » by Joey Wheeler » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:46 am

Doncic. Jokic is very difficult to build a contender around as you'll be playing a C that doesn't really protect the rim at a high level, that's a huge handicap.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#19 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:41 am

Doncic now, Jokic for the next 5 years.
Why? Because.
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Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#20 » by MyUniBroDavis » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:57 am

Dundalis wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
The dalla offense is the best in the league with luka off the floor tho lol, theyre 7-7 without him and 4 lf their losses were by less than 5 (whereas onlye one of their wins are, against milwakee)

Exactly. And KP is a no name player? Like his post is absurd.

You're full of it. At the start of the season no one was talking about Dallas even with KP, because no one knew anyone else on the team. Yeah, Kleber and Finney Smith, and Seth Curry and Hardaway Jnr. All these established, well known quality NBA starters. Please. Literally every player of significance put up career shooting years or close to it this season. At the same time. These aren't young players in their early 20's with no or little NBA history. A bunch of guys in their late 20's all having career shooting years at once. That's not indicative of Dallas having an incredible team. It's a whole bunch of luck, combined with a great system implemented by an elite coach and a heap of pressure taken off these role players to produce because literally everything falls on the shoulders of a 21 year old, so they get to comfortably play their role without having to do more than their talent level allows. But yeah, pretend that because the offensive efficiency (not the offense itself, there is in fact a difference) was the best ever, this is some team with elite offensive talent around Luka. There's literally not one player outside Luka that can reliably create their own offense. Even KP needs to be fed, and his TS is 55.1% during the season, which is a career best, yet still not very good.


Lmao chill tf out, im not stating an opinion it is a literal fact that in the 1590 minutes luka was off the floor (vs the 2048 he was on it) that the mavs were still the best offensive team in the nba

Its not an opinion its literally a factual statement
oof

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