Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years

Moderators: Quotatious, Clyde Frazier, trex_8063, Doctor MJ, penbeast0, PaulieWal

?

Jokic now and for the next 5 years
10
13%
Doncic now and for the next 5 years
35
47%
Jokic now but Doncic for the next 5 years
28
37%
Doncic now but Jokic for the next 5 years
2
3%
 
Total votes: 75

User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 54,319
And1: 43,831
Joined: May 19, 2012
   

Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#41 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:27 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:In 5 years Jokic will be 30, so likely still in his prime. If you'd pick Doncic here you'd have to do it based on the assumption that he takes another step in the near future.


I mean it seems reasonable to expect Luka to take another jump. He's still super young and still has some really obvious areas of improvement. I know the narrative when he entered the league was that he was a finished product and all he did this year was take arguably the biggest leap of any player in the entire league.

However, I'd also say we haven't yet seen peak Jokic either. I expect him to continue to improve as well.
Rachel Held Evans wrote:If you want to do violence in this world, you will always find the weapons. If you want to heal, you will always find the balm.
Dutchball97
Rookie
Posts: 1,194
And1: 1,082
Joined: Mar 28, 2020
 

Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#42 » by Dutchball97 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:55 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:In 5 years Jokic will be 30, so likely still in his prime. If you'd pick Doncic here you'd have to do it based on the assumption that he takes another step in the near future.


I mean it seems reasonable to expect Luka to take another jump. He's still super young and still has some really obvious areas of improvement. I know the narrative when he entered the league was that he was a finished product and all he did this year was take arguably the biggest leap of any player in the entire league.

However, I'd also say we haven't yet seen peak Jokic either. I expect him to continue to improve as well.


Yeah I was kinda explaining my own line of thinking. Luka is likely to take another step but it isn't set in stone yet. So for now I'd go with the safer option of Jokic. Realistically though if you'd had the option to pick between Luka or Jokic for the next 5 years you're in a pretty great position either way.
Pelly24
Starter
Posts: 2,192
And1: 1,271
Joined: Aug 02, 2016
     

Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#43 » by Pelly24 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:55 am

Dutchball97 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:In 5 years Jokic will be 30, so likely still in his prime. If you'd pick Doncic here you'd have to do it based on the assumption that he takes another step in the near future.


I mean it seems reasonable to expect Luka to take another jump. He's still super young and still has some really obvious areas of improvement. I know the narrative when he entered the league was that he was a finished product and all he did this year was take arguably the biggest leap of any player in the entire league.

However, I'd also say we haven't yet seen peak Jokic either. I expect him to continue to improve as well.


Yeah I was kinda explaining my own line of thinking. Luka is likely to take another step but it isn't set in stone yet. So for now I'd go with the safer option of Jokic. Realistically though if you'd had the option to pick between Luka or Jokic for the next 5 years you're in a pretty great position either way.


To me it feels like they're basically the same player just in different forms.

Their passing is equal, but I think Doncic might be able to apply it better because he's smaller and has a ridiclous handle,

Jokic is a better shooter at this point it seems and I'm not sure Luka will get to that level. Maybe, we'll see.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 54,319
And1: 43,831
Joined: May 19, 2012
   

Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#44 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:57 am

Dutchball97 wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:In 5 years Jokic will be 30, so likely still in his prime. If you'd pick Doncic here you'd have to do it based on the assumption that he takes another step in the near future.


I mean it seems reasonable to expect Luka to take another jump. He's still super young and still has some really obvious areas of improvement. I know the narrative when he entered the league was that he was a finished product and all he did this year was take arguably the biggest leap of any player in the entire league.

However, I'd also say we haven't yet seen peak Jokic either. I expect him to continue to improve as well.


Yeah I was kinda explaining my own line of thinking. Luka is likely to take another step but it isn't set in stone yet. So for now I'd go with the safer option of Jokic.


Yeah I tend to default to the more proven as well.
Rachel Held Evans wrote:If you want to do violence in this world, you will always find the weapons. If you want to heal, you will always find the balm.
Dundalis
Junior
Posts: 483
And1: 346
Joined: Jun 22, 2011

Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#45 » by Dundalis » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:49 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Dundalis wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Exactly. And KP is a no name player? Like his post is absurd.

You're full of it. At the start of the season no one was talking about Dallas even with KP, because no one knew anyone else on the team. Yeah, Kleber and Finney Smith, and Seth Curry and Hardaway Jnr. All these established, well known quality NBA starters. Please. Literally every player of significance put up career shooting years or close to it this season. At the same time. These aren't young players in their early 20's with no or little NBA history. A bunch of guys in their late 20's all having career shooting years at once. That's not indicative of Dallas having an incredible team. It's a whole bunch of luck, combined with a great system implemented by an elite coach and a heap of pressure taken off these role players to produce because literally everything falls on the shoulders of a 21 year old, so they get to comfortably play their role without having to do more than their talent level allows. But yeah, pretend that because the offensive efficiency (not the offense itself, there is in fact a difference) was the best ever, this is some team with elite offensive talent around Luka. There's literally not one player outside Luka that can reliably create their own offense. Even KP needs to be fed, and his TS is 55.1% during the season, which is a career best, yet still not very good.

This post is why people who don't read the board often need to refrain from discussions like the infamy of players.

Maxi is in his 3rd season and has been a good player for 3 years now.

Dorian Finney-Smith has been a strong defender his whole career and recently improved to be a 38% shooter from deep - that's not on Luka it's on him hitting the gym.

As far as Seth and Timmy go you don't know who you're talking to pretty obviously. :lol:

I've been on the Seth Curry bandwagon for 5 years (I know you're thinking, "but he wasn't even in the league 5 years ago," and you're right which is why I started a thread 5 years ago about how much he needs to be in the league) and I've loved Timmy ever since Bud whipped him up into a good player.

A far as KP goes I've never been high on him as a first option but without Luka around he's averaging 27 ppg on 59 TS% in a 10 game sample. Luka isn't the reason he's efficient, actually if you take out his games without Luka this isn't his most efficient season.

None of those guys were established and well known prior to this season, but that doesn't mean they're not good. It just means 99% of fans don't make it a habit to watch lottery teams so they wouldn't know the names of any standout performers on lottery squads. Ask any Knicks fan how they feel about KP and Trey Burke. Timmy... Well most of them still hate him from the San Antonio game winner that destroyed our tank in 2015 but beyond that he's grown into a great player under Bud.

If it was Luka making their offense so great and not great coaching and shooters how come when he missed games earlier this year they were the best offense even without him? If he's making them so great how come their ORTG in minutes without him would still rank top 5?

No idea what your first sentance has to do with anything. Maybe you should actually read what I said, because you've gone full strawman mode. Maxi has not been a good NBA level starter whatsoever. He's been a good NBA bench level player who can ocassionally start, predominantly because he provided very little on offense. His career year shooting from deep has slightly changed that narrative. He's still a bench player on any elite team full stop though. Same goes for DFS. Neither of those two guys start on the Nuggets. Neither does Curry, or THJ. Being on Seth Curry's bandwagon doesn't mean anything, I never said he's a bad player. I said he's not an NBA starter on a very good team. If he was, he wouldn't have been a bench player most of his career. And yeah, THJ was such an efficient scorer for the Knicks lol. Dude was a flat out net negative for your team and every Knicks fan wanted rid of his contract. You don't get it. I'm saying the Mavs don't have starting caliber NBA starters outside of Luka and KP. Maybe starters on bad teams, but NOT on an elite championship level teams. They are all high level bench players, and what proves it is the fact that they have mostly all been bench players and not starters the majority of their careers.

I've always said, Dallas has one of the best benches in the league, because statistically the last two years they have. However they do not have a good starting lineup, and Luka has had to carry that starting unit, which is partially why his on off stats aren't so great (because the bench that comes in, is in fact great vs other benches). That plus the very small sample size will get you great offensive ratings when Luka isn't on the floor. I also never gave Luka full credit for all of it. I said it's a combination of Luka and great coaching, which is geared around emphasizing analytics and taking the highest value shots (3's and layups). Players are given roles that empasise their limited ability and don't force them to play outside their strengths which would drastically drop their efficency over longer sample sizes (Luka gives them that luxury against starting units). Big reason why THJ's efficiency is a career best, NOT cause he's become a dead eye shooter over one season. Which is what I was saying in my previous post if you actually read it.
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 54,319
And1: 43,831
Joined: May 19, 2012
   

Re: Jokic or Doncic now and for the next 5 years 

Post#46 » by Texas Chuck » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:23 pm

Dundalis wrote:No idea what your first sentance has to do with anything. Maybe you should actually read what I said, because you've gone full strawman mode. Maxi has not been a good NBA level starter whatsoever. He's been a good NBA bench level player who can ocassionally start, predominantly because he provided very little on offense. His career year shooting from deep has slightly changed that narrative. He's still a bench player on any elite team full stop though. Same goes for DFS. Neither of those two guys start on the Nuggets. Neither does Curry, or THJ. Being on Seth Curry's bandwagon doesn't mean anything, I never said he's a bad player. I said he's not an NBA starter on a very good team. If he was, he wouldn't have been a bench player most of his career. And yeah, THJ was such an efficient scorer for the Knicks lol. Dude was a flat out net negative for your team and every Knicks fan wanted rid of his contract. You don't get it. I'm saying the Mavs don't have starting caliber NBA starters outside of Luka and KP. Maybe starters on bad teams, but NOT on an elite championship level teams. They are all high level bench players, and what proves it is the fact that they have mostly all been bench players and not starters the majority of their careers.

I've always said, Dallas has one of the best benches in the league, because statistically the last two years they have. However they do not have a good starting lineup, and Luka has had to carry that starting unit, which is partially why his on off stats aren't so great (because the bench that comes in, is in fact great vs other benches). That plus the very small sample size will get you great offensive ratings when Luka isn't on the floor. I also never gave Luka full credit for all of it. I said it's a combination of Luka and great coaching, which is geared around emphasizing analytics and taking the highest value shots (3's and layups). Players are given roles that empasise their limited ability and don't force them to play outside their strengths which would drastically drop their efficency over longer sample sizes (Luka gives them that luxury against starting units). Big reason why THJ's efficiency is a career best, NOT cause he's become a dead eye shooter over one season. Which is what I was saying in my previous post if you actually read it.



As someone who follows the Mavs really closely and is a massive stan of both Maxi Kleber and Dorian Finney-Smith I think this post really nails Dallas.

To put it more concisely: Dallas has a bunch of terrific 5-9th men on a championship level team. If you started one of DFS,Maxi,THJ,Seth and had the other 3 guys as key bench contributors you would feel really good about your team. Starting 3 of them means your starters are overmatched almost every night and certainly against basically any other playoff team.
Rachel Held Evans wrote:If you want to do violence in this world, you will always find the weapons. If you want to heal, you will always find the balm.

Return to Player Comparisons