RealGM

Should've started this thread a few weeks ago, but there's been some good discussion on the general board. After his super disappointing start individually (where the nuggets admittedly still went 14-5), he's completely returned to his MVP form of last season. Over the last 34 games (23-11 record):

33.2 MPG, 23.8 PPG, 10.4 RPG, 7.1 APG, 1.1 SPG, .7 BPG, 3.1 TOPG

54.6% FG, 38.2% 3PT (3.9 3PA per game), 81.4% FT (5.1 FTA per game), 62.9% TS, 124 ORtg

As the season went on, this nuggets team went from a balanced attack to a relative carry job by jokic as the injuries have piled up. A few questions:

- Nuggets currently tied for 2nd in the west with LAC on pace for 57 wins (LAL 1st on pace for 62). With Giannis being a given for MVP, what do you think his chances are at coming in 2nd?

- Assuming they get healthy, what are the nuggets title chances?

The guy is a flat out joy to watch and I'm looking forward to seeing how this season plays out.

Jokic has no chance at MVP. Giannis is lapping the field at this point.

The best center in the league, a joy to watch. I love how much damage he does in the post and his passing is brilliant. He's like Bob Lanier with Bill Walton passing - what else do you want to see?

I don't think he has a case for MVP with Giannis having such a season, but if he finishes the season in such a manner, he'll be clearly 2nd best player in this RS.

How do you see his defense? I think that he improved a bit, making him Bird-esque on that end (with worse motor) but I don't buy him being great defensively. He's not liability anymore though.

Dr Spaceman wrote:Jokic has no chance at MVP. Giannis is lapping the field at this point.

Yeah, I'll re-phrase: what are the chances he comes in 2nd?

One of his most recent aforementioned carry jobs. Much of his game has almost become deliberate at this point, but it's still so effective. As I said on the GB previously, props to the nuggets for finding/developing so many cutters to take advantage of jokic's ATG court vision and height as a passer.

Clyde Frazier wrote:

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One of his most recent aforementioned carry jobs. Much of his game has almost become deliberate at this point, but it's still so effective. As I said on the GB previously, props to the nuggets for finding/developing so many cutters to take advantage of jokic's ATG court vision and height as a passer.

Nuggets did a great job for running his offense around high/low post creator. Of course nobody else have Jokic in his team, but it's a good example of how to build around post player - guards are always in motion, no ball-watching and waiting for open three after double.

70sFan wrote:

Clyde Frazier wrote:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

One of his most recent aforementioned carry jobs. Much of his game has almost become deliberate at this point, but it's still so effective. As I said on the GB previously, props to the nuggets for finding/developing so many cutters to take advantage of jokic's ATG court vision and height as a passer.

Nuggets did a great job for running his offense around high/low post creator. Of course nobody else have Jokic in his team, but it's a good example of how to build around post player - guards are always in motion, no ball-watching and waiting for open three after double.

As an aside, the nuggets have at least 3 game winning blocks this season (2 by grant and 1 by craig). Really interesting roster construction in general.

He's been pretty clearly the best center in the NBA this year, and I'm saying this as someone who cheers the Sixers regularly. I'm to the point with this team where they're approaching the top tier of contenders, and I may even take them over the Lakers. Might even be 2nd in my MVP ranks, though probably currently 3rd behind Lebron. I'm starting to really buy them over any non-Clippers west team just because I buy their cast more.

70sFan wrote:How do you see his defense? I think that he improved a bit, making him Bird-esque on that end (with worse motor) but I don't buy him being great defensively. He's not liability anymore though.

To be fair, he wasn't exactly a liability last season either. His hands are GOAT level on offense, and it helps him on defense with some steals and blocks here and there. Generally a smart defender, the main problem I saw last year being he really struggles with the vertical threats (which is why Capela and the Rockets were such a bad matchup) and occasionally quicker, rim running bigs. Granted I've seen waaay more of him last year than this year, but from what I have seen this year, it seems like he's about the same on that end. The loss of Millsap this year dropped their DRTG quite a bit, but they are back in the top 10. I like the Bird comp though, just two flat-footed guys who just know where to be and where to stick their hands lol

EDIT: I think he's also stopped complaining this year as much as he did last year, which drove me absolutely crazy. He would just not get back on defense and pick up a dumb foul to needlessly whine at the refs. Rarely see that now

The Nuggets might be the best matchup for the Clippers in the West right now. They have an abundance of defenders to throw at Kawhi and PG; the perimeter combo of Craig-Grant-Harris is not topped by many, if any team at all. Not a single guy on the Clippers to check Jokic either, Zubac is good but historically has not been able to guard him and I'm not even going to talk about Harrell. Really it comes down to whether or not the Nuggets guards can show up, as they've been having shooting slumps as far back as last year's RS. Plus MPJ is a huge X-Factor, he fits the team too well, and can make a huge difference. Hopefully the two teams stay at the 2 and 3 spots.

He's easily top 3 in Mvp. With Lebron going on his patented post all star form he will finish runner-up to Giannis most likely but I don't see how anyone else is finishing above Jokic

With the play he's shown over the last 2 months I actually think there's a real chance for him to be the best player in the league in the future which I didn't think he'd be capable of. When he's aggressive like he's been he has almost no weakness offensively in the halfcourt

For the league's sake Denver should have a whole team of people trail Jokic everywhere he goes in the off-season and slap any junk food he gets out of his hands. Guy ain't ever gonna be ripped but if he keeps himself at a reasonable amount of thiccness that'd go a long way in mitigating potential injury risk. Nothing in his playing style relies on quickness or athleticism (except strength) so he could play at this level until maybe 40 if he stays in decent shape.

Tangentially related to this thread, but its wild that Denver and Jokic are this good and don't have a local TV deal. Insanity.

theonlyclutch wrote:For the league's sake Denver should have a whole team of people trail Jokic everywhere he goes in the off-season and slap any junk food he gets out of his hands. Guy ain't ever gonna be ripped but if he keeps himself at a reasonable amount of thiccness that'd go a long way in mitigating potential injury risk. Nothing in his playing style relies on quickness or athleticism (except strength) so he could play at this level until maybe 40 if he stays in decent shape.

Dude come on. Dirk, Malone, and Vince were all like 8 PPG players at 40 and those guys actually took care of themselves. Nash and Duncan didn’t even make it to 40. Jokic by that point will probably be the worst defensive center any of us have ever seen.

theonlyclutch wrote:For the league's sake Denver should have a whole team of people trail Jokic everywhere he goes in the off-season and slap any junk food he gets out of his hands. Guy ain't ever gonna be ripped but if he keeps himself at a reasonable amount of thiccness that'd go a long way in mitigating potential injury risk. Nothing in his playing style relies on quickness or athleticism (except strength) so he could play at this level until maybe 40 if he stays in decent shape.

Mike Malone will spend this summer with the Serbian National Team

Clyde Frazier wrote:

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Here are all centers (I don't like 7 feet cutoff):

Vucevic with 2
Towns with 1
Plumee with 1
Zaza with 1
Olynyk with 2
Olajuwon with 2 (post 1995)
Shaq with 1
Nurkic with one
Noah with 14
Monroe with 2
Olivier Miller with 1
Brad Miller with 9
Jokic with 56
Horford with 7
Marc Gasol with 10
Ewing with 1
Embiid with 2
Divac with 16
Cousins with 10
Camby with 2
Bam with 4

1955-96 (some of data is missing)

Bill Walton with 7
Alexander Volkov with 3
Wes Unseld with 14
Nate Thurmond with 4
Mychal Thompson with 4
Steve Stipanovich with 1
Jack Sikma with 4
Dale Schlueter with 2
Danny Schayes with 1
Bill Russell with 21
Jeff Ruland with 6
David Robinson with 6
Clifford Ray with 3
Steve Patterson with 1
Robert Parish with 1
Hakeem Olajuwon with 4 (so 6 overall)
Kurt Nimphius with 2
Swen Nater with 1
Erwin Mueller with 1
Oliver Miller with 3 (4 overall)
Ed Macauley with 1
Scott Lloyd with 1
Bob Lanier with 4
Bill Laimbeer with 2
Sam Lacey with 21
Red Kerr with 2
Rich Kelley with 4
Neil Johnston with 1
Dan Issel with 2
Darrall Imhoff with 2
Steve Hawes with 1
Jim Fox with 3
Patrick Ewing with 1
Wayne Embry with 1
Leroy Ellis with 1
Vlade Divac with 4 (20 overall)
Connie Dierking with 1
Jim Davis with 1
Brad Daugherty with 7
Dave Cowens with 7
Mel Counts with 1
Tom Boerwinkle with 11
Walt Bellamy with 5
Alvan Adams with 20
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with 18


Wilt Chamberlain with 80

So overall top 5 looks like this:

1. Wilt with 80
2. Joker with 56 (and counting)
3. Sam Lacey/Bill Russell with 21
5. Alvan Adams/Vlade Divac with 20

I don't think anyone with incomplete boxscores era would catch up Jokic with complete data. MAYBE Russell or Lacey, but unlikely. Joker may become first after retirement, with his pace he should get past Wilt quickly. We don't have Wilt's assists stats in 31 games, so it's not enough to say that he has much more 10+ast games than Joker will rack up.

70sFan wrote:Here are all centers (I don't like 7 feet cutoff):

Vucevic with 2
Towns with 1
Plumee with 1
Zaza with 1
Olynyk with 2
Olajuwon with 2 (post 1995)
Shaq with 1
Nurkic with one
Noah with 14
Monroe with 2
Olivier Miller with 1
Brad Miller with 9
Jokic with 56
Horford with 7
Marc Gasol with 10
Ewing with 1
Embiid with 2
Divac with 16
Cousins with 10
Camby with 2
Bam with 4

I think we can add Pau Gasol (12) to that list. Duncan also had 2 after starting to play as C.

hope he regains that 3pt% from a few seasons ago. Was it just a outlier?

TroubleS0me wrote:hope he regains that 3pt% from a few seasons ago. Was it just a outlier?

As I noted in my OP, he's shooting 38.2% from 3 on 3.9 attempts per game over his last 34 games so yeah he's gotten it back.