Better defender: Hakeem/Russell

durantbird · Post #1 » by **durantbird** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:32 pm

Two all time great centers who were highly skilled on defense, but who was better - Hakeem or Bill Russell?

BK_2020 · Post #2 » by **BK_2020** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:05 pm

Relative to their time? No one comes close to Russell. In absolute terms? It's impossible to compare.

Samurai · Post #3 » by **Samurai** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:30 pm

Russell's defensive impact was far greater than Hakeem's, or anyone else. Would his impact have been the same in Hakeem's era or vice versa? That's a different question with no clear way of knowing one way or the other. All we do know is how they did in their own time and Russell's defensive impact is at the top of the defensive mountain.

MyUniBroDavis · Post #4 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:35 pm

Russell for his time, prolly hakeem if you teleported them both today without any prep

Post #5 » by **penbeast0** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:38 pm

Both great shotblockers with superb mobility, their edge over almost every competitor they ever faced. Hakeem may have been the better man defender; those two and David Robinson are also the top centers for poking away post passes from behind the offensive player that I've even seen. Russell is better at leaving his man to help or disrupt a ballhandler and getting back. And, of course, Russell is one of the 3 main candidates for GOAT defensive rebounder while Hakeem (no slouch himself) is not close in that aspect of the game.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #6 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:06 pm

Relative to era, there really is no argument that Bill Russell is the greatest defensive player of all-time. Russell's teams consistently had defensive ratings several deviations below the rest of the league, and even with roster turnover, the Celtics were always historical defensively (and it seems like the data hints that is largely due to Russell). If you are interested in the data, just read this article and you'll see what the hype is about https://backpicks.com/2018/04/02/backpicks-goat-3-bill-russell/

I will say though, Hakeem Olajuwon is definitely the greatest defender of the modern era, so no disrespect to him.

eminence · Post #7 » by **eminence** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:49 pm

LukaTheGOAT wrote:Relative to era, there really is no argument that Bill Russell is the greatest defensive player of all-time. Russell's teams consistently had defensive ratings several deviations below the rest of the league, and even with roster turnover, the Celtics were always historical defensively (and it seems like the data hints that is largely due to Russell). If you are interested in the data, just read this article and you'll see what the hype is about https://backpicks.com/2018/04/02/backpicks-goat-3-bill-russell/

I will say though, Hakeem Olajuwon is definitely the greatest defender of the modern era, so no disrespect to him.

I think one could make an argument for Mikan relative to era.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #8 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:51 pm

eminence wrote:
LukaTheGOAT wrote:Relative to era, there really is no argument that Bill Russell is the greatest defensive player of all-time. Russell's teams consistently had defensive ratings several deviations below the rest of the league, and even with roster turnover, the Celtics were always historical defensively (and it seems like the data hints that is largely due to Russell). If you are interested in the data, just read this article and you'll see what the hype is about https://backpicks.com/2018/04/02/backpicks-goat-3-bill-russell/

I will say though, Hakeem Olajuwon is definitely the greatest defender of the modern era, so no disrespect to him.

I think one could make an argument for Mikan relative to era.

That actually is very interesting. I don't know a ton about Mikan, but I would be intrigued with learning more. I will say his ws/48 numbers are absurd, which definitely peaks my interest.

eminence · Post #9 » by **eminence** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:11 pm

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
eminence wrote:
LukaTheGOAT wrote:Relative to era, there really is no argument that Bill Russell is the greatest defensive player of all-time. Russell's teams consistently had defensive ratings several deviations below the rest of the league, and even with roster turnover, the Celtics were always historical defensively (and it seems like the data hints that is largely due to Russell). If you are interested in the data, just read this article and you'll see what the hype is about https://backpicks.com/2018/04/02/backpicks-goat-3-bill-russell/

I will say though, Hakeem Olajuwon is definitely the greatest defender of the modern era, so no disrespect to him.

I think one could make an argument for Mikan relative to era.

That actually is very interesting. I don't know a ton about Mikan, but I would be intrigued with learning more. I will say his ws/48 numbers are absurd, which definitely peaks my interest.

It's hard to say, not many clips, and even fewer focusing on his defense. But they had great results, and I have to imagine the biggest/baddest man in the league was a huge part of that. I know there's a vintage NBA episode that has some interesting stuff and some mini-interviews with him included and other contemporaries.

LA Bird · Post #10 » by **LA Bird** » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:37 pm

Bill Russell in any era. The time travel argument is more relevant for offense than defense and none of the qualities that made Russell the defensive GOAT was particularly era specific anyway. He has all time level athleticism and basketball IQ - that combination is a recipe for top defense in any era. If you teleport a 50s guard to today's league, it may take him years to develop modern day handles and shooting. If you teleport Russell to today's league, it would just take him a training camp to get used to the new defensive schemes and he is good to go. Hakeem wasn't close to Russell's in-era defensive impact and time travel wouldn't make a big enough difference to change that.