Better peak: Jason Kidd or Kyle Lowry?

[dcstanley]

Which PG had a better peak?

[KingRequiem]

This is just disrespectful to Jason Kidd

[Odinn21]

I would like to see that person voted for Lowry if that's another person than OP.

[Jordan Syndrome]

I would like to see that person voted for Lowry if that's another person than OP.

By the looks of it, 5 people have been consuming copious alcohol tonight.

[Dutchball97]

I don't see what the argument for Lowry is. I'd take Kidd's 2002, 2003 and 2007 play-offs over any of Lowry's play-off runs. I'm also pretty confident in saying that Kidd was better in 2011 than Lowry was in 2019 when they won their respective rings. Only Kidd was 37 at that point. Kidd also has a clear advantage in the regular season even though that's closer than the play-offs.

I think some people really underestimate how consistently good Kidd was in the post-season.

[Jaivl]

Love Lowry, hate Kidd... but this is Kidd with ease. What's the argument for Lowry? Bigger ass?

[sunless01]

Love Lowry, hate Kidd... but this is Kidd with ease. What's the argument for Lowry? Bigger ass?

dont judge, some ppl like em thick

[penbeast0]

Regular Season
Kidd 2003 PER 22.5 WS 11.3
Lowry 2016 PER 22.2 WS 11.6
Looks like it's not an unreasonable comparison for the regular season
I do agree that Kidd has appreciably stronger postseasons than Lowry's best

[limbo]

Arguments for Lowry are he peaked way higher as a scorer and is the better shooter, while being a pretty good playmaker and defender himself...

[70sFan]

Kidd is better at everything outside of shooting. Which is not a small thing, but not enough to overcome Kidd's all-around dominance.

[No-more-rings]

If we excluded scoring, Kidd would be the goat point guard. He’s like the Kevin Garnett of point guards almost. Lowry’s a good scorer, not a great one by any means. I don’t think that even begins to make a case for him, and his defense is good but not great.

[limbo]

Kidd is better at everything outside of shooting. Which is not a small thing, but not enough to overcome Kidd's all-around dominance.

Lowry is a significantly better finisher around the rim than Kidd was.

Also, it's not only the fact that Lowry was a much better outside shooter. It's that Kidd was an outright liability in terms of spacing in the half-court during most of his career, as he was a wildly inconsistent outside shooter, who got even worse in the Playoffs (below 30% from 3pt before he was 34 years old.

Also Lowry was better at getting to the line during the regular season, though not able to fully translate that in the PS.

I also don't value Kidd's rebounding edge here very much. Most of it was on the defensive end anyway where he was simply more willing to go grab those loose boards.

So, basically, it comes down to how much you value Kidd's passing & defense in contrast to Lowry's advantage as a scorer/shooter.

Well, that and how you choose to weigh in Lowry's rather unremarkable track record of disappearing/choking acts in the PS.

[limbo]

If we excluded scoring, Kidd would be the goat point guard. He’s like the Kevin Garnett of point guards almost. Lowry’s a good scorer, not a great one by any means. I don’t think that even begins to make a case for him, and his defense is good but not great.

Yeah, and Rondo would be 2nd place... Too bad scoring/shooting matters, especially for a guard.

Also, Kidd is nothing like Garnett (of point guards). KG was a much better finisher and overall scorer, and his ability to shoot, handle, pass as a Big was far more devastating to opposing defenses than anything Kidd was able to bring on offense. Nevemind the fact that KG is a GOAT level defender by impact, while Kidd is only that by position.

[70sFan]

Lowry is a significantly better finisher around the rim than Kidd was.

Kidd in Suns has basically the same numbers at the rim, especially when you adjust for era differences. It wasn't until he was 30 when he became bad finisher around the rim. I'd give Lowry edge, but "significantly" is a stretch.

It's also important to note that Kidd took bigger part of his shots at the rim than Lowry.

Also, it's not only the fact that Lowry was a much better outside shooter. It's that Kidd was an outright liability in terms of spacing in the half-court during most of his career, as he was a wildly inconsistent outside shooter, who got even worse in the Playoffs (below 30% from 3pt before he was 34 years old.

He was a streaky shooter, but he wasn't as terrible as you call him. It's not like it teams expected from him to shoot threes as much as today players do.

Also Lowry was better at getting to the line during the regular season, though not able to fully translate that in the PS.

True, I forgot about it.

I also don't value Kidd's rebounding edge here very much. Most of it was on the defensive end anyway where he was simply more willing to go grab those loose boards.

So, basically, it comes down to how much you value Kidd's passing & defense in contrast to Lowry's advantage as a scorer/shooter.

Well, that and how you choose to weigh in Lowry's rather unremarkable track record of disappearing/choking acts in the PS.

Well, to me that's an obvious pick because Lowry isn't good first (or even second) option scorer and his shooting is not enough to close the gap. Kidd was a true superstar in the early 2000s, Lowry was never on that level (I have to admit, I used to underrate him though).

[GSP]

I don't see what the argument for Lowry is. I'd take Kidd's 2002, 2003 and 2007 play-offs over any of Lowry's play-off runs. I'm also pretty confident in saying that Kidd was better in 2011 than Lowry was in 2019 when they won their respective rings. Only Kidd was 37 at that point. Kidd also has a clear advantage in the regular season even though that's closer than the play-offs.

I think some people really underestimate how consistently good Kidd was in the post-season.

@ 2011 Kidd being better than 2019 Lowry

Lowry was a top 15 player in the league and an allstar

Kidd was a role player that season. A very good one but nowhere near Lowry

[No-more-rings]

If we excluded scoring, Kidd would be the goat point guard. He’s like the Kevin Garnett of point guards almost. Lowry’s a good scorer, not a great one by any means. I don’t think that even begins to make a case for him, and his defense is good but not great.

Yeah, and Rondo would be 2nd place... Too bad scoring/shooting matters, especially for a guard.

Also, Kidd is nothing like Garnett (of point guards). KG was a much better finisher and overall scorer, and his ability to shoot, handle, pass as a Big was far more devastating to opposing defenses than anything Kidd was able to bring on offense. Nevemind the fact that KG is a GOAT level defender by impact, while Kidd is only that by position.

I think you’re reading too much into the KG comparion. I was just trying to illustrate both are asburdly impactful from a non scoring standpoint.

Lowry’s not stephen Curry or Dame Lillard when it comes to shooting and scoring. It’s not enough to override the wide gaps everywhere else.

[limbo]

Kidd in Suns has basically the same numbers at the rim, especially when you adjust for era differences. It wasn't until he was 30 when he became bad finisher around the rim. I'd give Lowry edge, but "significantly" is a stretch.

Lowry since coming to Toronto has been shooting 63% on shots 0-3 ft near the rim. Kidd post Phoenix was 53% from the same area. That's 10% difference, which is definitely significant.

And, yes. I acknowledge that prior to coming to New Jersey and joining the Nets, Kidd was actually a much better finisher around the rim. Fact was that once his athleticism started to wane he was never able to come close to that level of finishing around the rim ever again. Of course the final nail in the coffin was the micro-fracture surgery he had in the '04 offseason.

Meanwhile, Lowry at 33 was still shooting 64% around the rim this season in the RS... He's just much more crafty when it comes to scoring in those areas. He knows how to use his body better to create space and has a better touch than Kidd on his layups and shots close to the rim.

He was a streaky shooter, but he wasn't as terrible as you call him. It's not like it teams expected from him to shoot threes as much as today players do.

Man... 30% on almost 500 in the Playoffs before coming back to Dallas in 2008 is horrible... Especially considering most of his shots were open and/or assisted.

Teams gave him the three, and he couldn't punish them, ala Rajon Rondo.

Well, to me that's an obvious pick because Lowry isn't good first (or even second) option scorer and his shooting is not enough to close the gap.

He was good enough to be the clear-cut best offensive player (and 1b scorer) on a team that finished 4th,5th,6th and 2nd in Off.Rtg in consecutive years...

Kidd has only managed to replicate that type of success as the offensive engine of his team once in his long NBA career, and it was in his third year in the league in Phoenix. Everything team he was a part of after that was closer to being one of the worst offensive teams in the league rather than the best... And to be fair, he did have to play with some atrocious offensive players when he was on the Nets, but i think a truly elite offensive player should be able to get more out of those casts than Kidd did. Especially when Vince joined.

Kidd was a true superstar in the early 2000s, Lowry was never on that level (I have to admit, I used to underrate him though).

If Kidd was a superstar, so was Lowry... Lowry on aggregate was the 3rd best PG in the league from 2015-20, only behind Curry and CP3.

You could possibly say the same for Kidd in the early 00's, but who was really his competition at the time? Old John Stockton and Gary Payton? Sam Cassell? Mike Bibby?

After that you had Nash and Billups in the mid 00's and that's about it.

[limbo]

I think you’re reading too much into the KG comparion. I was just trying to illustrate both are asburdly impactful from a non scoring standpoint.

Lowry’s not stephen Curry or Dame Lillard when it comes to shooting and scoring. It’s not enough to override the wide gaps everywhere else.

I mean... Lowry averaged almost 9 apg on 2.8 to per game last season... and he's consistently been graded out as one of the best defensive guards in the league in the last 5 years...

[Woodsanity]

Most overrated pg Kyle Lowry ladies and gents.

[Dutchball97]

I don't see what the argument for Lowry is. I'd take Kidd's 2002, 2003 and 2007 play-offs over any of Lowry's play-off runs. I'm also pretty confident in saying that Kidd was better in 2011 than Lowry was in 2019 when they won their respective rings. Only Kidd was 37 at that point. Kidd also has a clear advantage in the regular season even though that's closer than the play-offs.

I think some people really underestimate how consistently good Kidd was in the post-season.

@ 2011 Kidd being better than 2019 Lowry

Lowry was a top 15 player in the league and an allstar

Kidd was a role player that season. A very good one but nowhere near Lowry

Crazy? How about you actually look at their play-offs? You really just dump off what you think up in your head as facts, don't you?