The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8)

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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1881 » by nzahir » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:10 am

Heej wrote:I think you ride out playoff Rondo for 2 years like some kinda BJ Armstrong character. Then bring in CP3 on a MLE type deal and he's the transition point of a new Lakers squad where LeBron and AD are playing 4-5 full time in the playoffs and he's the Ron Harper character except better. Him and Rondo are one of the few in that LeBron caliber of dissecting opponents, and those 2 don't mess with eachother. Only make sense to replace one with the other in time.

Say he opts into his last year, likely will, would he really just take the mle?

Or would he opt out a year earlier for a longer deal but cheaper per year?

I don't know if a trade for cp3 is that smart, but interested to see how the cap numbers work

Man Gallo helps our problems with 3 pt shooting and shot creation if he signed a 1 year mle

Avery, Green, Lebron, AD, Boogie?
Caruso, KCP, Kuzma, Gallo, Dwight?
Rondo, Cook, THT, Dudley?, Mcgee?

Would Boogie take the min or Bae?

Would we move Mcgee if possible for another versatile 3/4(especially with Galo's injury history and Lebron and AD sitting games at times)

If we had Gallo, I would assume Kieff would be gone
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1882 » by LukaTheGOAT » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:35 am

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:How much is elgee's pateron monthly?


It depends on the tier you join. Here is the link to his patreon. https://www.patreon.com/ThinkingBasketball/membership

The $2 tier rewards you with Access to podcast extras and Patreon-only posts on www.backpicks.com -- these often consist of additional research and deep-dive thoughts that don't make it into videos or podcasts. Also provide input on any future GOAT profiles and content in general.

The $4 tier access gets you the $2 tier benefits AND the following:
-Early access to videos (when available)

-All his propriety stats in one place for every player and team since 1955, including the Backpicks Box Plus-Minus model, advanced team stats before 1974 and WOWY runs for over 200 hundred players.

-The Thinking Basketball Discord forum, where you can bounce ideas around with me and other basketball lovers

-GOAT seasonal rankings database -- see (and discuss) every yearly valuation he made for the Backpicks GOAT


Finally the 7 dollar tier gets you everything: Access all the $2 and $4 content, in addition to:



-Daily leaderboards for my proprietary statistics. Includes top players, playmakers, scorers, player tendencies, plus-minus data and more

-A monthly Live Q&A with me on the Thinking Basketball Discord forum

As a member of the $7 tier, it is really cool getting not only getting live stats being updated but even cooler getting to speak with a brilliant basketball mind like him every month. The podcasts are recorded for those who don't get to participate live, but I find participating actively in them is perhaps what allows me to the learn more the most. You can ask him pretty much anything basketball related; the chats are wild. Would definitely recommend.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1883 » by kayess » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:39 am

I still can't believe ElGee is making a living with his basketball chops. What a world we live in, that's just WILD, really happy for the guy.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1884 » by Mos_Heat » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:16 am

nzahir wrote:Cap experts:
Is there a way to trade for Cp3 and use the mle and bae?

Does DG, Kuzma, Bradley, Mcgee, Cook, and 28 even get it done? Seemed a bit short on my calculations, but I may be wrong, not an expert

Tax payer MLE, BAE wouldn't be available

Yeas Green, Kuzma, Bradley, Mcgee, Cook for CP works
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1885 » by LikeABosh » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:51 am

nzahir wrote:Cap experts:
Is there a way to trade for Cp3 and use the mle and bae?

Does DG, Kuzma, Bradley, Mcgee, Cook, and 28 even get it done? Seemed a bit short on my calculations, but I may be wrong, not an expert


It's really not possible right now
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1886 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:15 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Heej wrote:
dcstanley wrote:Man, those 48 hours of hysteria after game 5 were something else. Not even gonna lie, I could barely sleep after that game :lol: . The thought of Lebron blowing a 3-1 lead kept hitting me like a ton of bricks.

There's something about Lebron that triggers the biggest overreactions. The haters were out in full force and many of us stans were in full doom and gloom mode. In retrospect, all of it was silly.

You know why man. It all circles back to 2011. Well forever have PTSD from it and the haters will always think he's only one meltdown away. No one's come to grips with the fact that he's a completely different person now and that you may as well completely erase that series from the memory books when trying to forecast current Lebron.

Zach Lowe always talks about how Jordan just felt inevitable. Like you never entertained the idea of him losing. LeBron kinda lost that luster for good 10 years ago, but I'm kinda glad because the uncertainty is what makes the victories that much sweeter.


Beyond that, essentially people gravitate toward Jordan because they want to believe in perfection.

Something I appreciate about LeBron's run - doesn't make it "better", just appreciate it - is that everyone has to grapple with the stumbles he had because it happened on the grand stage.

LeBron's perceived "dominance" is what dominance actually is. There are chinks in the armor, because they always are.

When we talk about Jordan's "dominance", we're supposed to talk about Jordan's 60 point game against the Celtics without talking about the fact that his team got swept, we're supposed to talk about the Dream Team without pointing out that everyone on the team was hyper-efficient except for Jordan who was shooting more than he should have because he wanted to be "The Man" while everyone else was there for the team, we're supposed to talk about his baseball years as if he have won the NBA championship had he simply been playing, we're supposed to talk about the Last Dance as if Jordan was going to win titles forever if only Krause wasn't a villain, and we're supposed to pretend Jordan's time in Washington just never happened.

People don't want Jordan's incredible success put into context so we can understand his limitations were and why he was dramatically more successful at sometimes compared to others. They want a hero, and Jordan wants to be that hero, so the spin continues.

None of this means LeBron > Jordan, but the people who side with Jordan because of this false notion of perfection are a real problem. The Jordan narrative literally makes people, including the players who grew up in his shadow, dumber about basketball.


This is wonderful.
It's very rare to find levelheadedness when it comes to this type of stuff here.

If people praise Jordan, the typical reaction by the opposition is one of accusation of bias.
If people praise LeBron, the typical reaction by the opposition is one of accusation of ignorance and immaturity because "Jordan was simply better".

Context is key.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1887 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:56 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
D.Brasco wrote:LeBron in the 90s would be like picturing Karl Malone but almost literally splicing him with Magic Johnson and even then there's some additional athleticism that needs to be thrown into that mix.

No idea why people even try to attempt like 80s or 90s defenses would slow him down.


They would hand check the crap out of him, and pummel him whenever he got anywhere close to the rim. LeBron has never done well going up against physical defenses and that's in today's much softer league. Would be forced into a bunch of jump shots, which we all know is not his forte, and he doesn't have a post game to punish smaller defenders.

Defensively he would struggle too because they didn't switch like they do today, he would actually have to guard his matchup, and he tends to coast on defense.


I couldn't disagree more.

1) He'd live more in the post on offense, and I strongly believe he would have honed his post skills even more with the illegal defense rules. No zones, no showing, just straight man-to-man defense, and it'd be pick your poison between dominant post-play, either overpowering the smaller defender, beating the big man with his speed, or dishing out to the open man from the post when the double comes, and there's been no one better at that in history than LeBron.

2) On defense, he'd be hand-checking as well, and with his powerful frame and agility, he'd simply have shown great dominance on D.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1888 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:57 pm

therealbig3 wrote:LOL, didn't want to make it too obvious, but yeah, obviously I was being sarcastic. My post was intentionally ridiculous.

I specifically find it funny the contradiction that exists, where the same people that lament how soft defense is now and how much harder LeBron would have it in the 90s completely ignore the absolute terror he would be on the defensive end if he was able to dish out physical punishment and maul guys on the perimeter all he wanted (if that's really what was allowed, which we all know was not).

And come on, anyone arguing that defensive schemes in the 90s were close to as complex as now just have Jordan-colored glasses on. LeBron would gladly take an extra 10% of physical play to go up against the simplistic defense that era offered.

Now, that's not to say he would necessarily be better than Jordan...just that there are plenty of things that would break his way in that era that would allow him to still dominate to the same degree as he is today.


You got my juices going when I read that post earlier and you successfully trolled me.

Happy Friday :nonono:
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1889 » by D.Brasco » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:02 pm

We're all a bit sensitive from the GB and all the Skip Bayless like takes that get posted there without irony.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1890 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:10 pm

Heej wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
nzahir wrote:Here is my post, maybe it is too early and long, but whatever.

I included most FA’s and trade guys that I could think of that make sense. Anyone I am missing?
Who would you sign with the mle and bi annual? Who would you look to trade for? Pretty difficult w/o knowing if KCP, Rondo, AB, and Mcgee will opt in or out, will Dwight be back, and what is happening with Boogie, but fun to think of the scenarios.

FA:
Pg: Augustin, Teague, Collison (if he comes back), Dragic (mle maybe enough?), Reggie Jackson
Sg: Wes Matthews, Bazemore, Justin Holiday, Alec Burks
Sf: Korver, Harkless, Ariza? (if portland waives)
Pf: Gallinari, Melo, Kieff, Crowder (meh, has issues with lebron in cle too)
C: Dwight, Boogie, Baynes, Marc Gasol, Ibaka

Trade:
Pg: Schroeder, Mills, Rose, Dinwiddie, Cp3 (would kill 2021 FA and depth)
Sg: Luke Kennard, Fournier, Powell (2021 PO, assume he opts out), Grayson Allen, JJ reddick, Svi, Oladipo THJ (meh)
Sf: Mcdermott, Otto Porter Jr, Ingles (2022), TJ Warren, Derozan
Pf/C: Bjelica

Lakers have to figure out if 2021 FA is the class they are going after or if it is 2022
2021: Jrue, Oladipo, Giannis (doubtful), Maybe Hayward, Derozan.
2022: Cp3, Beal, Harden, Wall, Lavine, etc

Even though DG has pissed me off so much this year, I am not sure if it makes sense to trade him considering how tough it would be to get another good defensive guard/wing who can keep defenses honest

We can for sure use 1 more shooter off the bench, then a playmaker (shooting playmaker would be perfect), then a defensive wing.

If Gallo is available for a 1 year mle (1+1 PO), that would be great
If not, guys like Bjelica, Kennard, Svi (really wish we still had him), and JJ would be great. Then Grayson or Mcdermott

If Kuzma can't get any decent value, just keep him for him for his 2 way potential, cheap current price, and a good scoring body for regular season when AD and Bron sit. But if we can swing him for a consistent 3 point threat or a consistent young defender, rather do that

Thoughts?


Good list.

I personally think Josh Jackson, Alec Burks, Tristan Thompson, Markieff Morris, Dwight Howard will be the targets for FA for Lakers. They also may need to pay Rondo more.

I think all this is their FA done. Though I do like Korver, Harmless, Wes.


I think a trade for Snell or McDermott as backup SF could happen since a wing defender and knockdown shooter are needs. Other than that I don't see any trades unless it's for a starter guard scoring upgrade like Oladipo or Fournier.

Interesting. The guys that popped to me are Matthews, Justin Holiday, Alec Burks, Moe Harkless, and Kent Bazemore. I know people want a PG that can pull up off screens like Augustin but I'm happy with AC Rondo and Bradley as 2 way players. Maybe Ibaka for the McGee slot. That would be low-key amazing as a pickup. Stretch big that can defend the rim.

Portland would have to be the biggest morons in the league to waive Ariza I'd throw the whole damn MLE at that MFer if that's what it takes. Also a Kennard for Kuzma type deal would be veryyy spicy. I think they're high on him tho and idk if he's worth Kuzma and #28 given how great Jesse Buss and Ryan West are at scouting.

Also @Homer that video is great.


There is no way they can get Ibaka. I can't see it at all.
I will say this: if they Ibaka, playing Ibaka/AD in the frontcourt would be so, so unfair.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1891 » by PistolPeteJR » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:15 pm

JulesWinnfield wrote:I remember watching this live. This is the lead-in ESPN had to the broadcast of Lebrons first televised high school game. Talk about setting expectations lol

Read on Twitter


I had never seen this before. That's insane. Like, legitimately insane.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1892 » by KTM_2813 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:08 pm

Apologies for the soap box, but I've been listening to some post-Finals podcasts, and I think I'm at the point where I'm ready to call the Jordan vs. LeBron debate the DDOAT (dumbest debate of all-time). You can actually feel your IQ decreasing as you listen to people talk about it. Basically every conversation devolves into the following:

- Throwing s#%t at the wall. "Jordan was 6-0 in the Finals!" "LeBron made it to 10 Finals!" "Jordan never choked against Dallas!" "LeBron wasn't 1-9 without Pippen!" "Jordan had a shinier head!" "LeBron grows a better beard!" :banghead:

- Terrible era comparisons. "The 90s were so physical! It was an era of men! The modern game is soft!" "Modern players are the most talented ever! Players are smarter! The 80s were just janitors!" :banghead:

- Bad movie scripts. "Jordan triumphed over the Bad Boys after years of hardship and stuck with the Bulls through thick and thin, and then he was rewarded by learning how to win and becoming unstoppable! LeBron was a quitter who should have stayed with the Cavaliers his whole career and then broke through like Jordan!" "LeBron is the lord and savior who led the Cavaliers to a championship against impossible odds, and has now won with three franchises - Jordan needed Pippen, but all LeBron needs is a ball!" :banghead:

Honestly, ElGee's breakdowns are so good that every other GOAT comparison feels lazy by comparison, IMO.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1893 » by nzahir » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:08 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
nzahir wrote:Cap experts:
Is there a way to trade for Cp3 and use the mle and bae?

Does DG, Kuzma, Bradley, Mcgee, Cook, and 28 even get it done? Seemed a bit short on my calculations, but I may be wrong, not an expert


It's really not possible right now

U sure? The guy above you said it was possible (after we draft)
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1894 » by Greyhound » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:37 pm

thebigbird wrote:Trying for CP3 is a great way to screw this thing up. He’s an old 6’0 point guard making $40 million a year. He’s injury prone. The Lakers don’t need a starting point guard. They have LeBron. They need 3&D role players. I’d only take CP3 on a vet minimum.

I agree.

Why gut your entire team and disrupt the chemistry that has developed for an aging 6’0” PG?

Everyone on the Lakers knows their role. The unit is battle tested and is bonded. I hope they don’t mess up a good thing trying to be cute.

I say maintain as best as possible and look to improve incrementally.

Priorities checklist:

1. Retain KCP
2. Keep Howard from GS
3. Retain Rondo
4. Retain Morris if it can be done at reasonable cost.
5 Target a regular season Rondo fill-in.
6. Pitch undecided option guys on running it back.
Don't believe the hype...
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1895 » by thebigbird » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:51 pm

Greyhound wrote:
thebigbird wrote:Trying for CP3 is a great way to screw this thing up. He’s an old 6’0 point guard making $40 million a year. He’s injury prone. The Lakers don’t need a starting point guard. They have LeBron. They need 3&D role players. I’d only take CP3 on a vet minimum.

I agree.

Why gut your entire team and disrupt the chemistry that has developed for an aging 6’0” PG?

Everyone on the Lakers knows their role. The unit is battle tested and is bonded. I hope they don’t mess up a good thing trying to be cute.

I say maintain as best as possible and look to improve incrementally.

Priorities checklist:

1. Retain KCP
2. Keep Howard from GS
3. Retain Rondo
4. Retain Morris if it can be done at reasonable cost.
5 Target a regular season Rondo fill-in.
6. Pitch undecided option guys on running it back.

Yeah, there are only a handful of potentially available guys I would gut the roster for, and CP3 is definitely not one of them. He doesn’t fill a need, and he’s not even a guy you can count on being healthy when you need him the most. AD and LeBron just gave you 55.3 ppg on 65% TS throughout an entire postseason. They have enough top end offensive firepower between those two.

Agreed on KCP being the #1 priority. They need him back, and it seems very likely he does come back. How do you feel about Kuzma? He’s on a cheap contract next year which is very nice, but he seems like the most likely trade candidate.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1896 » by LikeABosh » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:07 pm

nzahir wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
nzahir wrote:Cap experts:
Is there a way to trade for Cp3 and use the mle and bae?

Does DG, Kuzma, Bradley, Mcgee, Cook, and 28 even get it done? Seemed a bit short on my calculations, but I may be wrong, not an expert


It's really not possible right now

U sure? The guy above you said it was possible (after we draft)


Yes. Some of the guys listed can't even be traded yet
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1897 » by mademan » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:12 pm

Any thoughts about the draft for LA? I think a lot of these guys will come in more NBA ready than many think, especially if it continues to be a bubble (which is likely after seeing what the NFL is going through). I like Malachi Flynn or Isiah Joe beside Lebron. Maybe more Isiahi Joe. Think he can be a Green replacement within a year
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1898 » by nzahir » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:45 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
nzahir wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
It's really not possible right now

U sure? The guy above you said it was possible (after we draft)


Yes. Some of the guys listed can't even be traded yet

Assuming opt ins and after the pick though

I don't think we need to make a huge move for now, but lets also wait and see

Say BKN makes a move for Jrue and or Aaron Gordon or the Bucks make a big move.

BKN can possibly have a ton of talent and better fits pretty soon.

LAC has the talent we know, but the chemistry was a mess.

If we legit just can sign Gallo, no need for a major move
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1899 » by xb3at band1tx » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:47 pm

Still can’t believe AD averaged 25/10 on 50/40/90 shooting in his first finals
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 8) 

Post#1900 » by RSCD3_ » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:12 am

Wow didnt see that 50/40/90 coming, he basically was shooting like dirk for a lot of the playoffs though
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