lebron3-14-3 wrote:So yeah, to me, the goat debate comes down to: Yeah, you like jordan and you think he's the best (I don't like him but think he probably is, even if it is a wash with lebron basically), but how much better than these guys do you think he is to justify such a big gap in longevity?
-russell, wilt, magic, bird, shaq, hakeem he doesn't have a longevit disadvantage and he's decently to a lot better than these guys
- duncan, he has a good disadvantage in longevity but he's a whole lot better
- kobe, a bit of a disadvantage in longevity but a lot better
- malone, gigantic disadvantage in longevity but humongous advantage as a bball player
-but when it comes to lebron (I already explained, pretty big disadvantage in longevity, nonexistant, negligible or very small advantage as a player)
-kareem. A good bit better as a player, but you just can't think that 71-80 jabbar was so much worse than 87-93/96-98 to outweigh THE ENTIRETY OF KAJ'S 80S.
Other than that, hasn't lbj done so much more? Like, lebron just seems so much bigger as a figure and as a player. The lebron experience is so much bigger. I'm not much of a gamer but in italy we have the expression "to platinate a video game", from the word platinum, when you finish a game and go back to the start to complete every mission at the maximum grade, collect every item etc. After this year lebron's career feels just like that. He has done it all. Like, mj was a real assassin, just so much scoring ability, 1on1 defense, killer mentality, good enough to win year after year and be probably the best player of all time as far as domination on your peers and single season impact, but lebron is just so much more. He has played longer and had way more playoff series/runs, he has played in every condition, he has had to carry a team shoting 30 times per game (cleveland first stint, 2015, 2018), he has had to play with an elite scoring guard (irving, wade), with a big (ad), he has faced every coverage, every difensive style, he had to adapt to a changing league as far as style of play, he has destroyed every narrative, career defining games (in multiple instances he would have been buried in every cemetery in the us if he didn't show up big time), comebacks, failures (2011), game 7, legendary seasons, multiple roles, every gameplan. No bball player has a comparable career, just way too much variety as far as scenarios, solutions etc. And he just does so much more on the basketball floor.
Like, jordan was jordan. An absolute killer with a godlike midrange game, blazing quickness and leaping ability with a crazy ability to make layups. The best scorer ever, absolutely unguardable. He probably had the best first step/layup skills/midrange game of all time. 20 feet and less from the basket, unguardable. You'd need to be 6-7 with good wingspan to have a chance to contest his shots, but at that height you had no chance to stay with him more than half a step. If you were shorter, he would just rise up and score every time. Then he would pick up his assignment of d and just kill him.
Lebron just does so much more. He's one of the best passers ever. He's a god in every facet of passing. He can dominate in the post. He can playmake. He can cut. He can be the handler or the roller in the p&r. He has a fadeaway game. He shoots stepback 3s. He makes half court shots. He can just bully ball any forward. He can drive past guys. He's an help defender. He can gaurd basically any position. In this playoff run alone, he guarded westbrook (rarely but well), harden (pretty often and decently, I won't say he did a GREAT job, but he showed he could guard him and do a better job than most), he shut down jamal murray, and he dealt with adebayo most of the time from the game davis was put on butler on. He literally outrebounded adebayo 1vs1 and he played great defense on him. He's just so much "More" overall as a basketball player, he battles with bigs if they are not 7footers (obviously he can't mess with the valanciunas, embiid, adams etc, but he does a great job with small ball 5s like adebayo), defending them and outrebounding them, he scores in so many ways, he passes, he throws lobs, he finishes lobs. Other than that, he does a way BIGGER job of creating a group, motvating his teammates.
Like, I'd like even the biggest hater of lebron and fan of mj to argue with me with this. Don't you feel like lebron is capable of doing so much more, and he just IS so much more overall with how many things he experienced in his career, compared to mj or other guys?
Its not like jordan did not have any post game or a fadeaway. Similar 3pt shooters.
But other than that James is bigger and stronger.
But Bam was injured these finals. I would also say Lebron is very eager to be switched of player on defence. He would pick up butler coming over the half way line and as soon as he saw someone come he switched. He did same thing vs Kd in the finals.
But very obvious bias for lebron.
Some lost their mind when someone mentioned lebron having a sub par series in 09 ecf.
But Jordan was spamming fgs at the same ts% efg% in 86.
But everyone judges diffrently i dont care about guarding all 5 when he rarely guards pg or centers.