Compare peak Curry to peak Magic

Moderators: Doctor MJ, penbeast0, PaulieWal, Quotatious, Clyde Frazier, trex_8063

therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 24,652
And1: 10,815
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#21 » by therealbig3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:17 am

Magic couldn't be slowed down the way Curry has been over and over again in the playoffs. Magic had his down moments, but it wasn't the consistent theme of his career the way it has been for Curry so far. Also, Magic was more of a factor on defense than Curry.

Magic is one of the candidates for offensive GOAT, along with LeBron, Jordan, Nash, and Bird. Curry isn't part of that conversation, because he doesn't have the same level of offensive dominance in the PS as they do.
User avatar
oaktownwarriors87
RealGM
Posts: 11,581
And1: 3,331
Joined: Mar 01, 2005
 

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#22 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:26 am

Magic had the easiest path to rings. He also had better teammates.

Championship difficulty by SRS (going back to 1984 (the beginning of the current playoff format) and all negative teams zeroed out.


Image

HOU 1995 6.44/5.90/3.85/7.76 (5.9875 average)
LAL 2001 3.63/7.92/6.07/4.52 (5.535 average)
CHI 1992 7.97/5.56/5.51/1.77 (5.2025 average)
LAL 2002 3.67/7.61/6.28/3.21 (5.1925 average)
LAL 2000 4.15/6.36/5.24/3.04 (4.6975 average)
DAL 2011 6.76/3.81/6.01/1.84 (4.605 average)
CLE 2016 10.38/4.08/3.49/0.43 (4.595 average)
SAS 2014 4.15/6.66/4.44/2.91 (4.54 average)
HOU 1994 6.48/4.10/4.68/2.59 (4.4625 average)
CHI 1996 6.27/5.87/6.30/(-0.67) (4.6100 average)
TOR 2019 6.42/8.04/2.25/0.28 (4.2475 average)
LAL 2010 3.37/4.67/5.33/3.55 (4.23 average)
SAS 2003 4.42/7.90/2.71/1.56 (4.1475 average)
CHI 1993 7.40/5.40/2.24/1.46 (4.125 average)
CHI 1991 5.73/6.25/2.45/1.88 (4.0775 average)
CHI 1997 6.94/5.34/3.67/(-3.94) (3.9875 average)
LAL 2009 6.48/3.12/3.73/2.31 (3.9075 average)
SAS 2007 3.33/3.06/7.28/1.69 (3.84 average)
SAS 2005 3.31/7.08/2.59/2.23 (3.8025 average)
BOS 2008 7.34/6.67/(-0.53)/(-2.23) (3.5 average)
GSW 2017 2.87/7.13/4.00/(-0.23) (3.5 average)
DET 1989 6.38/2.13/4.11/1.26 (3.47 average)
MIA 2006 5.96/6.24/1.11/0.51 (3.455 average)
MIA 2012 6.44/2.26/2.59/2.39 (3.42 average)
BOS 1986 2.10/8.69/2.59/(-3.12) (3.345 average)
GSW 2018 0.59/8.21/1.48/2.89 (3.2925 average)
GSW 2015 4.08/3.82/3.62/1.13 (3.1625 average)
LAL 1988 5.46/3.59/2.96/(-5.02) (3.0025 average)
DET 2004 4.35/4.93/1.88/0.42 (2.895 average)
LAL 1985 6.46/2.05/2.80/(-2.34) (2.8275 average)
BOS 1984 3.32/4.04/3.79/(-2.36) (2.7875 average)
MIA 2013 6.67/3.34/(-0.02)/(-1.83) (2.5025 average)
DET 1990 6.48/2.74/0.78/(-0.18) (2.500 average)
CHI 1998 6.73/3.08/(-0.39)/(-0.43) (2.4525 average)
SAS 1999 1.45/5.67/2.67/(-0.17) (2.4475 average)
LAL 2020 2.59/2.35/3.13/(-0.61) (2.0175 average)
LAL 1987 6.57/0.08/(-2.54)/(-1.14) (1.6625 average)

Average difficulty (3+ rings)
Shaq: 4.72
Kobe: 4.71
Jordan: 4.08
Duncan: 3.76
Curry: 3.32
Wade: 3.13
LeBron: 3.13
Magic: 2.50
PockyCandy wrote:Is Ball's shot any more ugly than Curry's? Curry just seems to launch it towards the basket like an 8 year old.
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#23 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:28 am

Dutchball97 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:Just based on what they actually did and not whose playstyle I prefer it is definitely close. When looking at both regular season and play-offs there really isn't that big of a gap between them. Curry has an edge in terms of best regular season but I think Magic peaked a bit higher in 87 when looking at the season as a whole.


Curry 2017 matches Magic 1987 just fine. Probably superior.


In terms of play-off performance I also think 87 Magic and 17 Curry are a wash but with KD coming to town Curry took on a lesser role in the regular season and it's not really comparable to Magic's MVP season in terms of production.


70sFan wrote:Curry in his "best" playoff run faced very weak competition while being on the most talented team ever. I know that Magic faced weak competition in 1987 as well, but he also has 1985 and 1988-91. Curry's 2nd best playoff run is what? 2015? 2019? I'd take Magic over that comfortably.


You guys should pull up Curry's 2015 numbers as well for comparison: higher playoffs wins shares, OBPM, and VORP.

Vladimir777 wrote:Wouldn't be a discussion about Steph without some graphs being brought out. I'm trying to not get bothered by the Steph love so much, but I clearly have a huge bias against the guy.


You're right more graphs are in order.

Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7wepu0X4AAJfsz.jpg
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#24 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:38 am

therealbig3 wrote:Magic couldn't be slowed down the way Curry has been over and over again in the playoffs. Magic had his down moments, but it wasn't the consistent theme of his career the way it has been for Curry so far. Also, Magic was more of a factor on defense than Curry.

Magic is one of the candidates for offensive GOAT, along with LeBron, Jordan, Nash, and Bird. Curry isn't part of that conversation, because he doesn't have the same level of offensive dominance in the PS as they do.


Curry has been slowed down because the opposing teams sold out entirely to guard him unlike living with the lumps other stars were going to give. Magic wasn't dangerous enough to completely ignore his very good teammates over.

That's why Curry's on the team that hold the playoffs wins record. That's why he's been to 5 straight finals. That's why the comment he doesn't have the same level of offensive dominance in the PS as the other guys you mentioned is risible.
User avatar
Heej
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,200
And1: 4,910
Joined: Jan 14, 2011

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#25 » by Heej » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:43 am

Man i love the Curry stans lol. It gets under people's skin so much because deep down inside everyone knows they have a leg to stand on in the discussion. Unfortunately most of them are also oblivious to the fact that he falls to the same trappings of the small guard archetype that every other one deals with. They inherently have less playoff resilience than their wing counterparts. Doubly so with motion offense as seen in just this last series with the Heat. Steph's also much more prone to getting "figured out" the later a series goes than someone like Magic who is a walking mismatch and can pass+score his way out of any scheme.
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#26 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:52 am

Heej wrote:Man i love the Curry stans lol. It gets under people's skin so much because deep down inside everyone knows they have a leg to stand on in the discussion. Unfortunately most of them are also oblivious to the fact that he falls to the same trappings of the small guard archetype that every other one deals with. They inherently have less playoff resilience than their wing counterparts. Doubly so with motion offense as seen in just this last series with the Heat. Steph's also much more prone to getting "figured out" the later a series goes than someone like Magic who is a walking mismatch and can pass+score his way out of any scheme.


It's a false leg the detractors are standing on when it comes to Curry. That's been shown repeatedly. People still cannot reconcile how with his smaller frame he has done more than other greats with bigger builds. That's why they keep coming up with weird rationales and ignore the actual results. One would think hearing how Curry utterly failed in the playoffs he was swept repeatedly instead of the one doing the sweeping. Bringing up the motion offense with the Heat just shows the dissonance at play. The Heat were led by Jimmy Butler, a rookie and an undrafted player and they pushed the Lakers filled with multiple veterans and champions to 6 games. Sounds like the superior method if you can execute.
therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 24,652
And1: 10,815
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#27 » by therealbig3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:55 am

WarriorGM wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Magic couldn't be slowed down the way Curry has been over and over again in the playoffs. Magic had his down moments, but it wasn't the consistent theme of his career the way it has been for Curry so far. Also, Magic was more of a factor on defense than Curry.

Magic is one of the candidates for offensive GOAT, along with LeBron, Jordan, Nash, and Bird. Curry isn't part of that conversation, because he doesn't have the same level of offensive dominance in the PS as they do.


Curry has been slowed down because the opposing teams sold out entirely to guard him unlike living with the lumps other stars were going to give. Magic wasn't dangerous enough to completely ignore his very good teammates over.

That's why Curry's on the team that hold the playoffs wins record. That's why he's been to 5 straight finals. That's why the comment he doesn't have the same level of offensive dominance in the PS as the other guys you mentioned is risible.


And selling out to stop Curry led to a severely diminished offense relative to their RS performance, and their success was primarily because they had such a strong team defense that would win them games despite their offense struggling.

Magic rarely needed the defense to bail out his team’s offense like that.
therealbig3
RealGM
Posts: 24,652
And1: 10,815
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#28 » by therealbig3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:57 am

Heej wrote:Man i love the Curry stans lol. It gets under people's skin so much because deep down inside everyone knows they have a leg to stand on in the discussion. Unfortunately most of them are also oblivious to the fact that he falls to the same trappings of the small guard archetype that every other one deals with. They inherently have less playoff resilience than their wing counterparts. Doubly so with motion offense as seen in just this last series with the Heat. Steph's also much more prone to getting "figured out" the later a series goes than someone like Magic who is a walking mismatch and can pass+score his way out of any scheme.


This is the same guy that said Curry was more impressive than LeBron in the 2016 playoffs, so objective discussion isn’t really possible with him.
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#29 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:00 am

therealbig3 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Magic couldn't be slowed down the way Curry has been over and over again in the playoffs. Magic had his down moments, but it wasn't the consistent theme of his career the way it has been for Curry so far. Also, Magic was more of a factor on defense than Curry.

Magic is one of the candidates for offensive GOAT, along with LeBron, Jordan, Nash, and Bird. Curry isn't part of that conversation, because he doesn't have the same level of offensive dominance in the PS as they do.


Curry has been slowed down because the opposing teams sold out entirely to guard him unlike living with the lumps other stars were going to give. Magic wasn't dangerous enough to completely ignore his very good teammates over.

That's why Curry's on the team that hold the playoffs wins record. That's why he's been to 5 straight finals. That's why the comment he doesn't have the same level of offensive dominance in the PS as the other guys you mentioned is risible.


And selling out to stop Curry led to a severely diminished offense relative to their RS performance, and their success was primarily because they had such a strong team defense that would win them games despite their offense struggling.

Magic rarely needed the defense to bail out his team’s offense like that.


A "severely diminished offense relative to their RS performance" looked enough to win even in their losses. Harrison Barnes makes a couple of open threes and we might be having a different conversation.

Magic rarely needed the defense because he rarely played without at least a top 50 player.
User avatar
Heej
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,200
And1: 4,910
Joined: Jan 14, 2011

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#30 » by Heej » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:03 am

WarriorGM wrote:
Heej wrote:Man i love the Curry stans lol. It gets under people's skin so much because deep down inside everyone knows they have a leg to stand on in the discussion. Unfortunately most of them are also oblivious to the fact that he falls to the same trappings of the small guard archetype that every other one deals with. They inherently have less playoff resilience than their wing counterparts. Doubly so with motion offense as seen in just this last series with the Heat. Steph's also much more prone to getting "figured out" the later a series goes than someone like Magic who is a walking mismatch and can pass+score his way out of any scheme.


It's a false leg the detractors are standing on when it comes to Curry. That's been shown repeatedly. People still cannot reconcile how with his smaller frame he has done more than other greats with bigger builds. That's why they keep coming up with weird rationales and ignore the actual results. One would think hearing how Curry utterly failed in the playoffs he was swept repeatedly instead of the one doing the sweeping. Bringing up the motion offense with the Heat just shows the dissonance at play. The Heat were led by Jimmy Butler, a rookie and an undrafted player and they pushed the Lakers filled with multiple veterans and champions to 6 games. Sounds like the superior method if you can execute.

Yeaaa, about the Heat...just no. There's a lot of factors at play as to why that series went 6, and as I mentioned already their offense got figured out fairly quickly. It only takes 1 or 2 games max to adjust to a team slipping screens all the time lol. System ball isn't gonna win you a ring in the playoffs nowadays. You need guys that can go vs single coverage on the players that are allowed to switch on to them and can punish the sell-out defenses through passes when they play that card in the adjustment game. Steph's just never truly gonna be that guy vs 1-4 switchers even though his passing+gravity vs sell-out defenses is of that caliber.
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#31 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:08 am

Heej wrote:Yeaaa, about the Heat...just no. There's a lot of factors at play as to why that series went 6, and as I mentioned already their offense got figured out fairly quickly. It only takes 1 or 2 games max to adjust to a team slipping screens all the time lol. System ball isn't gonna win you a ring in the playoffs nowadays. You need guys that can go vs single coverage on the players that are allowed to switch on to them and can punish the sell-out defenses through passes when they play that card in the adjustment game. Steph's just never truly gonna be that guy vs 1-4 switchers even though his passing+gravity vs sell-out defenses is of that caliber.


Never? Last I looked Curry had three rings....

Since we're also talking about Magic your comment is also irrelevant. Magic is not on Curry's level as a scorer.
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#32 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:14 am

therealbig3 wrote:
Heej wrote:Man i love the Curry stans lol. It gets under people's skin so much because deep down inside everyone knows they have a leg to stand on in the discussion. Unfortunately most of them are also oblivious to the fact that he falls to the same trappings of the small guard archetype that every other one deals with. They inherently have less playoff resilience than their wing counterparts. Doubly so with motion offense as seen in just this last series with the Heat. Steph's also much more prone to getting "figured out" the later a series goes than someone like Magic who is a walking mismatch and can pass+score his way out of any scheme.


This is the same guy that said Curry was more impressive than LeBron in the 2016 playoffs, so objective discussion isn’t really possible with him.


Beating the Thunder coming off an injury was more impressive than the suspension reliant and injury riddled victory the Cavaliers had. But hey, ignore such details as you wish.

I also think the victory over the Rockets in 2018 was more important than the 2018 finals series. You think the 2018 finals sweep was more indicative just because it was the finals?
User avatar
Heej
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,200
And1: 4,910
Joined: Jan 14, 2011

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#33 » by Heej » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:18 am

WarriorGM wrote:
Heej wrote:Yeaaa, about the Heat...just no. There's a lot of factors at play as to why that series went 6, and as I mentioned already their offense got figured out fairly quickly. It only takes 1 or 2 games max to adjust to a team slipping screens all the time lol. System ball isn't gonna win you a ring in the playoffs nowadays. You need guys that can go vs single coverage on the players that are allowed to switch on to them and can punish the sell-out defenses through passes when they play that card in the adjustment game. Steph's just never truly gonna be that guy vs 1-4 switchers even though his passing+gravity vs sell-out defenses is of that caliber.


Never? Last I looked Curry had three rings....

Since we're also talking about Magic your comment is also irrelevant. Magic is not on Curry's level as a scorer.

All under outlier circumstances even for a championship. I don't think he provides the same real championship odds that the true top 10-15 all timers do.

Magics scoring is very functional in that he can score more than well enough to punish you for making the adjustment to try and limit his passing. Kinda like Jokic in a sense. There's enough there to schematically 'win' a playoff series and ensuring that the math is always tilted in your favor no matter what.

Also, Magics defense is better than Currys. And this is coming from someone who thinks Curry is the most underrated defender and rebounding guard in NBA history.
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#34 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:21 am

Heej wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Heej wrote:Yeaaa, about the Heat...just no. There's a lot of factors at play as to why that series went 6, and as I mentioned already their offense got figured out fairly quickly. It only takes 1 or 2 games max to adjust to a team slipping screens all the time lol. System ball isn't gonna win you a ring in the playoffs nowadays. You need guys that can go vs single coverage on the players that are allowed to switch on to them and can punish the sell-out defenses through passes when they play that card in the adjustment game. Steph's just never truly gonna be that guy vs 1-4 switchers even though his passing+gravity vs sell-out defenses is of that caliber.


Never? Last I looked Curry had three rings....

Since we're also talking about Magic your comment is also irrelevant. Magic is not on Curry's level as a scorer.

All under outlier circumstances even for a championship. I don't think he provides the same real championship odds that the true top 10-15 all timers do.


If there are outlier circumstances then Magic is your guy as shown by oaktownwarriors87 above.

Curry is true top 10 compared to Magic.
User avatar
Heej
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,200
And1: 4,910
Joined: Jan 14, 2011

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#35 » by Heej » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:27 am

WarriorGM wrote:
Heej wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Never? Last I looked Curry had three rings....

Since we're also talking about Magic your comment is also irrelevant. Magic is not on Curry's level as a scorer.

All under outlier circumstances even for a championship. I don't think he provides the same real championship odds that the true top 10-15 all timers do.


If there are outlier circumstances then Magic is your guy as shown by oaktownwarriors87 above.

I think his methodology is kinda dumb because he's giving equal weighting to teams of every level. Your championship odds are drastically more reduced by 1 higher level team than they are by a smattering of middling ones. It's like the Rockets in 2018 say they played a bunch of guys like Portland or New Orleans to win the chip. You'd have a way higher SRS than if they played a bunch of guys like the Suns or the Wizards but had to face the Warriors at the end.

But clearly the odds of you winning are wayyyyy lower in the second scenario because it's impossibly harder to get past the one team you need to beat to win the championship even though the average difficulty is by technicality higher in the first one.

I'll give Magic WAY more credit for beating the Celtics in the Finals with his Lakers than I'd give Curry for beating any of the Cleveland teams he won against with the talent gap being as large as it was in every series. Fair is fair though, the WCF was the real finals in 2018 and that was impressive even though the talent gap was still too much in the Warriors favor. Especially with a key rotation piece like LRMM getting injured before the series and weakening the Rockets.
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#36 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:40 am

Heej wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Heej wrote:All under outlier circumstances even for a championship. I don't think he provides the same real championship odds that the true top 10-15 all timers do.


If there are outlier circumstances then Magic is your guy as shown by oaktownwarriors87 above.

I think his methodology is kinda dumb because he's giving equal weighting to teams of every level. Your championship odds are drastically more reduced by 1 higher level team than they are by a smattering of middling ones. It's like the Rockets in 2018 say they played a bunch of guys like Portland or New Orleans to win the chip. You'd have a way higher SRS than if they played a bunch of guys like the Suns or the Wizards but had to face the Warriors at the end.

But clearly the odds of you winning are wayyyyy lower in the second scenario because it's impossibly harder to get past the one team you need to beat to win the championship even though the average difficulty is by technicality higher in the first one.

I'll give Magic WAY more credit for beating the Celtics in the Finals with his Lakers than I'd give Curry for beating any of the Cleveland teams he won against with the talent gap being as large as it was in every series. Fair is fair though, the WCF was the real finals in 2018 and that was impressive even though the talent gap was still too much in the Warriors favor. Especially with a key rotation piece like LRMM getting injured before the series and weakening the Rockets.


The 1987 Celtics had to battle through the Bulls, Bucks and Pistons (the latter two series going 7 games) before they even met the Lakers who strolled through the playoffs against possibly the weakest path to the finals in the past 3 decades. I've seen wear and tear catch up to the Warriors so I've learned to factor that in.
70sFan
RealGM
Posts: 14,057
And1: 9,979
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
 

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#37 » by 70sFan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 am

WarriorGM wrote:Magic wasn't dangerous enough to completely ignore his very good teammates over.

This is literally what Houston did in 1990 against Magic - they doubled him and denied him from the ball, while praying that the rest of Lakers team isn't strong enough to beat them. Unfortunately for them, Magic took advantage of it and set up Worthy for easier than usual opportunities to score and they lost in quick fashion.

That's why Curry's on the team that hold the playoffs wins record.

No, this is because he played with MVP and two all-star players on his team.

When Lakers missed Magic in 1989, they got swept.
When Warriors missed Curry in 2016, they won 1.5 series and it was before KD got there.

That's why he's been to 5 straight finals.

Magic played twice as many finals series, so it's irrelevant to this discussion.
70sFan
RealGM
Posts: 14,057
And1: 9,979
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
 

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#38 » by 70sFan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:31 am

About competition - Warriors best run in terms of competition is 2017 with 3.5 SRS average. Compare that with 1991 Lakers:

3.27/1.72/8.47/8.57 -> 5.5 average (among the very best).

All Magic did in that postseason was averaging 22/13 on 60 TS% against 2nd, 23rd, 3rd and 7th defenses. How about his amazing team? Worthy, his second option, averaged 21 ppg on 50 TS%, then he got injured in the finals (the same with Byron Scott).

I wish we have on/off stats for these Magic years, they would be brutal.

Before anyone asking - no, 2016 and 2019 Warriors are not comparable (3.4 and 4.0).
WarriorGM
Analyst
Posts: 3,292
And1: 1,658
Joined: Aug 19, 2017

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#39 » by WarriorGM » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:59 am

70sFan wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:That's why Curry's on the team that hold the playoffs wins record.

No, this is because he played with MVP and two all-star players on his team.


So? Magic played with an MVP and two all-stars too. Still didn't set the records Curry attained.

70sFan wrote:When Lakers missed Magic in 1989, they got swept.
When Warriors missed Curry in 2016, they won 1.5 series and it was before KD got there.


Curry played in both early round series. The Lakers got swept in the finals against the league leading 63-win Pistons. Which brings up another point: The Showtime Lakers under Magic weren't even the clear best team of their era. Isiah Thomas might even have something to say about being the best point guard of that era!

70sFan wrote:
That's why he's been to 5 straight finals.

Magic played twice as many finals series, so it's irrelevant to this discussion.


Brought up to illustrate the silliness of any claims Curry collapses in the playoffs. But it also shows that Curry was able to achieve things Magic didn't despite Magic having twice the opportunity.

70sFan wrote:About competition - Warriors best run in terms of competition is 2017 with 3.5 SRS average. Compare that with 1991 Lakers:

3.27/1.72/8.47/8.57 -> 5.5 average (among the very best).

All Magic did in that postseason was averaging 22/13 on 60 TS% against 2nd, 23rd, 3rd and 7th defenses. How about his amazing team? Worthy, his second option, averaged 21 ppg on 50 TS%, then he got injured in the finals (the same with Byron Scott).

I wish we have on/off stats for these Magic years, they would be brutal.

Before anyone asking - no, 2016 and 2019 Warriors are not comparable (3.4 and 4.0).


That SRS number gets a big boost from the 1991 Trail Blazers team. 538's elo rating for that 1991 Trail Blazers team was 1696 before the Lakers faced them. In comparison the 2016 Thunder came in at 1734 before facing the Warriors.
70sFan
RealGM
Posts: 14,057
And1: 9,979
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
 

Re: Compare peak Curry to peak Magic 

Post#40 » by 70sFan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:20 am

WarriorGM wrote:So? Magic played with an MVP and two all-stars too. Still didn't set the records Curry attained.

True, but Magic wasn't himself MVP-level player when Jabbar dominated. Kareem was 32 when Magic joined the team. Magic didn't reach his heights until 1985, when Jabbar was 38. Curry played with peak Durant, so again - it's not comparable.

Curry played in both early round series. The Lakers got swept in the finals against the league leading 63-win Pistons. Which brings up another point: The Showtime Lakers under Magic weren't even the clear best team of their era.

They beat the same Pistons team the year before, I think they proved more than enough that they were better than Pistons and Celtics.


Brought up to illustrate the silliness of any claims Curry collapses in the playoffs. But it also shows that Curry was able to achieve things Magic didn't despite Magic having twice the opportunity.

Except he didn't - Curry has 3 titles in 5 finals. Magic has 5 titles in 9 finals. Magic's team accomplishments **** on Curry's.

538's elo rating for that 1991 Trail Blazers team was 1696 before the Lakers faced them. The 2016 Thunder came in at 1734 before facing the Warriors.

Which shows they are comparable level, except that Magic has much weaker team than Curry.

Besides, Magic also faced very strong Houston team in the first round, much better than any other WC team Warriors faced.

Return to Player Comparisons