2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1181 » by Goudelock » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:38 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Goudelock wrote:Draymond misses a game and the Warriors struggle to crack 100 points.

hmmmmmmmmm


Curry is 3/16 from three lol that’s probably a big part of it


Curry is 3/16 in a game where Draymond isn't able to play the two-man game with him?

hmmmmmmmmm
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1182 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:39 am

Goudelock wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Goudelock wrote:Draymond misses a game and the Warriors struggle to crack 100 points.

hmmmmmmmmm


Curry is 3/16 from three lol that’s probably a big part of it


Curry is 3/16 in a game where Draymond isn't able to play the two-man game with him?

hmmmmmmmmm


Lmao bruh
Rip

Peregrine01 wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure it should be such a given that the 17 team was better than the 16 version at their peaks.


Lol if you think thats bad

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Yes, he actually said that :lol:
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1183 » by bondom34 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:41 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Goudelock wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Curry is 3/16 from three lol that’s probably a big part of it


Curry is 3/16 in a game where Draymond isn't able to play the two-man game with him?

hmmmmmmmmm


Lmao bruh

Quality reverse jinx.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1184 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:42 am

bondom34 wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Goudelock wrote:
Curry is 3/16 in a game where Draymond isn't able to play the two-man game with him?

hmmmmmmmmm


Lmao bruh

Quality reverse jinx.


Mike conley taught him that
Rip

Peregrine01 wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure it should be such a given that the 17 team was better than the 16 version at their peaks.


Lol if you think thats bad

ShotCreator wrote:MIKE CONLEY IS THE NBA MVP + 47 posts defending that take


Yes, he actually said that :lol:
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1185 » by eminence » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:50 am

Jazz apparently 19-1-1 against the spread during their run. Which is pretty bonkers.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1186 » by Goudelock » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:05 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Goudelock wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Curry is 3/16 from three lol that’s probably a big part of it


Curry is 3/16 in a game where Draymond isn't able to play the two-man game with him?

hmmmmmmmmm


Lmao bruh


Curry hits clutch shots because Draymond's absence motivated him to do better?

hmmmmmmmmm
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1187 » by bondom34 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:12 am

eminence wrote:Jazz apparently 19-1-1 against the spread during their run. Which is pretty bonkers.

By CTG's numbers they're +7.5 relative to the spread since 1/8. 2nd place is +4.1, so...quite a gap.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1188 » by freethedevil » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:48 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
limbo wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:Jeez, Zion is scoring 27.1 ppg on 70 FG% in his last 8 games. Why does it feel like he's gone under the radar this year, despite being one of the most hyped rookies last year.


Because he doesn't bring much else to the table outside GOAT-level finishing that has not even stand the test of Playoff basketball yet, and he is terrible defensively.

Still, the Pelicans team construction and bench is terrible, so kudos to Zion for still being able to assert his will on the game despite playing in less than ideal circumstances... That said, i don't know where to put him in the hierarchy of elite offensive players because his impact/style is so atypical...


He’s gotten better on defense, not good or anything but he’s gone from bottom of the league out of place to probably. Closer to neutral than bad.

Since PowerPoint Zions been a thing the pels offense has skyrocketed, 124.5 off rtg over the past 10 games, that’s not all him but most of his points come from drives in isolation (with a center screening the help usually but not always) vs cuts

27ppg on 66% shooting and near 80% from the free throw line in 32 minutes a game as the second option is pretty good for a guy that’s 50 games into his career. The pels being great on offense isn’t all him, but he’s a +5.0 per game in that time and his on off has gotten better, so in a raw sense his impact seems fine, he’s not a ball stopper at all since if an attack isn’t open literally right away they go into a handoff at the wing and run a different action usually with reddick or Ingram, they prolly do this too much actually

What’s probably the biggest development for Zion is that he’s a good ft shooter. The team said he tweaked his form at the start of the year, has shot 76.5% from the line since he missed the game vs the clippers (18 games) over 150 attempts in that span. It’s been trending up too

His line since PowerPoint Zion (ball handler Zion, they said on Twitter it’s since the wizards game late January) is

26.1/5.5/4.4 on 66FG and 77FT, 71TS (technically 44.4% from three on like 1 attempt a game lol) and 2 turnovers in 32 minutes, although this game brings his scoring average to 27 a game I think

The team around him just doesn’t make sense since he’s essentially a drive guy at heart, in a team with bottom tier spacing, so him being able

A lot of the pels doing well is lonzo exploding though

Still though the fact that Zion since he took on a new role, which he’s done for about half his season now, is top 10 in scoring while leading the league in TS% (for reference, it’s nearly the same as currys best month in his unanimous mvp year in raw TS although of course curry hit like 37 a game and was steph friggin curry lol), while not being a ball stopper and being pretty Ok as a passer, is pretty great, esp when you take into account he’s still a player that pretty much can only get to the hole and finish absurdly well on a team with poor shooting, a defensive minded coach, and no stretch 5

The thing with Zion is he’s more raw than pretty much any other top tier prospect in recent memory, in terms of the gap to his ceiling, so the fact he can put up these numbers is impressive

His pick and roll defense has gotten a lot better so I have hope he can reach his defensive potential.

I don't ge the fit issues. Aren't BI, Reddick and Lonzo all good at catch and shoot and isn't lonzo a great lob passer? Why wouldn't zion's game be able to fit with those three? Why is the peicans core not meshing?
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1189 » by freethedevil » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:51 am

70sFan wrote:Zion is still a raw player, but his passing game is there to be developed. Don't act like Zion can't pass, he has the feel and with more experience he should be fine.

People rarely want to remember how turnover prone Barkley was at the beginning of his career.

I would be disspointed if zion turns out to be a barkely-level passer at his peak.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1190 » by freethedevil » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:51 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:I know that the jazz are apparently gameplanning super wel even though I haven’t been watching them but goddamn they’re on fire lol

You think the jazz could knock off a healthy lakers?
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1191 » by 70sFan » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:55 am

freethedevil wrote:
70sFan wrote:Zion is still a raw player, but his passing game is there to be developed. Don't act like Zion can't pass, he has the feel and with more experience he should be fine.

People rarely want to remember how turnover prone Barkley was at the beginning of his career.

I would be disspointed if zion turns out to be a barkely-level passer at his peak.

Barkley was very good passer though.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1192 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:59 pm

freethedevil wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:I know that the jazz are apparently gameplanning super wel even though I haven’t been watching them but goddamn they’re on fire lol

You think the jazz could knock off a healthy lakers?


I mean it’s so early on still and this lakers team clearly has more to work on than last years in terms of counters and stuff, they particularly struggle with baseline help in their iso or post possessions more than anything and that’s not really something you can like Lebron mode or AD mode out of, although I’m assuming they can make the right adjustments and they’ve done it inconsistently.

Like they usually just cut when someone sends help which is fine when it’s hell from the wing since it means either the cut or the opposite corner three is open but if you do that when they prerotate baseline you’re basically just helping the D and clogging it up kind of, and because the rotations aren’t gonna be hindered a skip pass doesn’t make as much of an open three as you’d think, although obv bron skip passes like goku

A few other things like AD not popping far out enough, schroder struggling when they go under screens, etc etc but dealing with help defense and paint packing are the biggest problems for the lakers

If the playoffs started now I think it would be a tossup, I don’t necessarily think that outside of the lakers jazz are the best team in the west I’d say a healthy clippers are probably a bigger threat still, shortening rotations helps them more + lues a proven playoff coach.

The jazz typically drop a lot, which is obv fine, and in the playoffs previous years they don’t really adjust super well
Vs more dynamic guards I think in the playoffs, although they’ve done it more lately

The only weak area is gobert on the perimeter, but that’s not THAAAT bad. Wing defense isn’t great but I team defense + top tier interior D is gonna make up for that probably, I mean when bron and ad “struggled” in the playoffs it wasn’t someone shutting them down it was more like pre rotations and LA being slow to counter

But there are reasons the jazz are better other than a picture of mike conley, they’re playing well on defense adapting to teams a bit better, and overall are much better as a unit in terms of rotations communications and stuff like that.

Offensively they’re good in the sense that it’s a strong team, good execution scheme stuff like that idk details. They have like the things for a good system, and even though they don’t really have that one hyper scorer unless bubble Mitchell comes back, great shooting high tier lib threat smart players and a few shot creators they’re solid


I don’t think they’ll be better than either LA teams come playoff time, and like, I’m thinking LAL will solve some of their issues by then


That and they should probably figure out how to use THT and to a lesser extent caruso when they’re being helped off of, mostly through screening action like the warriors do for draymond

I’d say the lakers are clearly the best team if they figure out their issues offensively, which they should be able to do. They do it sometimes, like vs the nuggets they struggled because they both sent help from the wing and the baseline, so cutting from the wing doesn’t create advantage, but you just have to try to make weakside action since now you have a 3v1 or a 4v2 weakside, just get a good shooter on the weakside corner and set a pindown on the defender closest to the weakside corner, THT or Caruso or harrell setting the screen, and that’s prolly good, and they’ve done that a bit and gotten ok results, they had a good stagger screen play that got a good look as well so they clearly have like a concept but just aren’t doing it fully yet, which is prolly cuz of lack of practice time. It’s just about consistency, and it’s hard because as much hate as a guy like AD has gotten because he’s generally doing ok enough vs help like this that it’s not been a huge issue they prolly don’t see it as much, but he’s having to hit some dummy shots


Like the lakers staff are slow but they react on offense and don’t just go “we will hustle harder” like some teams and are a top 2 defensive staff in the league. Snyder isn’t bad in the playoffs or anything and obv they do try things like that crazy defense they did vs the rockets.

It’s interesting but I’d say lakers, then clippers, then jazz come playoff time

The lakers are definately the team with the most upside, but they prolly won’t quite hit that ceiling. I still think they the favorites tho
Rip

Peregrine01 wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure it should be such a given that the 17 team was better than the 16 version at their peaks.


Lol if you think thats bad

ShotCreator wrote:MIKE CONLEY IS THE NBA MVP + 47 posts defending that take


Yes, he actually said that :lol:
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1193 » by freethedevil » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:02 pm

70sFan wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
70sFan wrote:Zion is still a raw player, but his passing game is there to be developed. Don't act like Zion can't pass, he has the feel and with more experience he should be fine.

People rarely want to remember how turnover prone Barkley was at the beginning of his career.

I would be disspointed if zion turns out to be a barkely-level passer at his peak.

Barkley was very good passer though.

Good for a big, average overall. Could make reads when they were clearly in his line of sight. Zion is hyped as being able to anticipate plays before they unfold which is a whole other level.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1194 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:13 pm

freethedevil wrote:
70sFan wrote:
freethedevil wrote:I would be disspointed if zion turns out to be a barkely-level passer at his peak.

Barkley was very good passer though.

Good for a big, average overall. Could make reads when they were clearly in his line of sight. Zion is hyped as being able to anticipate plays before they unfold which is a whole other level.


Tbf id say a lot of anticipating plays is recognizing the counters your team has set up, and that just wasn’t nearly as necessary pre illegal D abolishment when it was more of a one on one game

It’s kinda like, for example AD suddenly looks like an great passer at times and for sure he’s improved but a lot of it is the teams kinda drilled in these counters and he’s getting better at reading them, I mean even marc said it’s about making the right read vs some 9000 iq play like everything seems to think, like I think a lot of people assume basketball is more random action or scripted action when it’s more in between, outside of sets you kind of have concepts but when X happens your3 gonna typically respond with Y, and it’s just about reps. Jokic is an amazing passer and prolly the best passer at his position ever but the same concept kind of applies although he puts it in overdrive with his placement and stuff

Transition and like scrambles are where those crazy passes that you see people make in the 80s and stuff appear more, but as much as it’s not super complex now as some make it seem (at least in certain ways, some plays are crazy complicated) it’s def a lot more complex than it was pre 2000s, I think a guy like Zions shown he has a lot of natural instinct as a passer it’s about showing he can make reads in more structured settings then
Rip

Peregrine01 wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure it should be such a given that the 17 team was better than the 16 version at their peaks.


Lol if you think thats bad

ShotCreator wrote:MIKE CONLEY IS THE NBA MVP + 47 posts defending that take


Yes, he actually said that :lol:
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1195 » by 70sFan » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:16 pm

freethedevil wrote:
70sFan wrote:
freethedevil wrote:I would be disspointed if zion turns out to be a barkely-level passer at his peak.

Barkley was very good passer though.

Good for a big, average overall. Could make reads when they were clearly in his line of sight. Zion is hyped as being able to anticipate plays before they unfold which is a whole other level.

I think you underestimate Barkley here a bit. Sure, he wasn't some kind of all-time great passer who could manipulate defenses like Jokic, but he could create openings and he made more than just basic reads.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1196 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:23 pm

freethedevil wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
limbo wrote:
Because he doesn't bring much else to the table outside GOAT-level finishing that has not even stand the test of Playoff basketball yet, and he is terrible defensively.

Still, the Pelicans team construction and bench is terrible, so kudos to Zion for still being able to assert his will on the game despite playing in less than ideal circumstances... That said, i don't know where to put him in the hierarchy of elite offensive players because his impact/style is so atypical...


He’s gotten better on defense, not good or anything but he’s gone from bottom of the league out of place to probably. Closer to neutral than bad.

Since PowerPoint Zions been a thing the pels offense has skyrocketed, 124.5 off rtg over the past 10 games, that’s not all him but most of his points come from drives in isolation (with a center screening the help usually but not always) vs cuts

27ppg on 66% shooting and near 80% from the free throw line in 32 minutes a game as the second option is pretty good for a guy that’s 50 games into his career. The pels being great on offense isn’t all him, but he’s a +5.0 per game in that time and his on off has gotten better, so in a raw sense his impact seems fine, he’s not a ball stopper at all since if an attack isn’t open literally right away they go into a handoff at the wing and run a different action usually with reddick or Ingram, they prolly do this too much actually

What’s probably the biggest development for Zion is that he’s a good ft shooter. The team said he tweaked his form at the start of the year, has shot 76.5% from the line since he missed the game vs the clippers (18 games) over 150 attempts in that span. It’s been trending up too

His line since PowerPoint Zion (ball handler Zion, they said on Twitter it’s since the wizards game late January) is

26.1/5.5/4.4 on 66FG and 77FT, 71TS (technically 44.4% from three on like 1 attempt a game lol) and 2 turnovers in 32 minutes, although this game brings his scoring average to 27 a game I think

The team around him just doesn’t make sense since he’s essentially a drive guy at heart, in a team with bottom tier spacing, so him being able

A lot of the pels doing well is lonzo exploding though

Still though the fact that Zion since he took on a new role, which he’s done for about half his season now, is top 10 in scoring while leading the league in TS% (for reference, it’s nearly the same as currys best month in his unanimous mvp year in raw TS although of course curry hit like 37 a game and was steph friggin curry lol), while not being a ball stopper and being pretty Ok as a passer, is pretty great, esp when you take into account he’s still a player that pretty much can only get to the hole and finish absurdly well on a team with poor shooting, a defensive minded coach, and no stretch 5

The thing with Zion is he’s more raw than pretty much any other top tier prospect in recent memory, in terms of the gap to his ceiling, so the fact he can put up these numbers is impressive

His pick and roll defense has gotten a lot better so I have hope he can reach his defensive potential.

I don't ge the fit issues. Aren't BI, Reddick and Lonzo all good at catch and shoot and isn't lonzo a great lob passer? Why wouldn't zion's game be able to fit with those three? Why is the peicans core not meshing?



Ingram and Zion are a weird combo because they don’t complement each other at all, I don’t think Ingrams a great pick and roll passer and his strengths don’t mesh super well with Zion outside of his shooting

Lonzo and Zion is a good fit, esp since lonzos shots been on fire lately, he’s better at pulling up than catch and shoots I think though

Reddicks been a bit off

As a whole though the pelicans don’t have a stretch 5, and their overall shooting talent isn’t great although it’s been trending up (like Zions stats).

Lewis replacing walker in the rotation helps their shooting a lot, harts a catch and shoot hustle guy that isn’t great at shooting, reddicks obv gonna have spacing but is having an off year, Bledsoe’s a good shooter this year

But keep in mind the idea is you just have to have 1 or 2 guys to sag off of, preferably the bigger guys.

The pels don’t have a 4 or a 5 that can shoot, sure you can play Ingram (or even hart lol) up a position but willy/adams/Melli/Haxes all either can’t shoot or are poor shooters, and that hurts spacing for a guy like Zion a lot

They mitigate that by screening the big a lot and dealing him off but ehhhh I’d prefer spacing

Gundy is a good defensive coach but nothing crazy on offense and that Zion handoff play after he catches and takes a look at the basket seems so useless to me since it literally never accomllishes anything and they do it in a very going through the motions type of way

Intuitively I feel they aren’t very good at occupying or countering help D even though I don’t remember off the top of my head.

Zions defense has potential because he’s shown at least when he was a bit younger at duke he can be switchy athletically



First possession shows it best, he has fast feet but is either out of shape or adjusting to nba speed still
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1197 » by therealbig3 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:40 am

Milwaukee getting taken behind the woodshed again so far by another sub-.500 team.

Also, I really hate listening to Marv Albert. Unpopular opinion: I don’t think he was ever all that good, even in his prime.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1198 » by Clyde Frazier » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:36 am

therealbig3 wrote:Milwaukee getting taken behind the woodshed again so far by another sub-.500 team.

Also, I really hate listening to Marv Albert. Unpopular opinion: I don’t think he was ever all that good, even in his prime.


I disagree with the in his prime part, but he should've retired 10 years ago. How do you keep someone on the air who constantly makes mistakes? It's flat out embarrassing.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1199 » by therealbig3 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:38 am

Clyde Frazier wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Milwaukee getting taken behind the woodshed again so far by another sub-.500 team.

Also, I really hate listening to Marv Albert. Unpopular opinion: I don’t think he was ever all that good, even in his prime.


I disagree with the in his prime part, but he should've retired 10 years ago. How do you keep someone on the air who constantly makes mistakes? It's flat out embarrassing.


10 years is being nice, I think 15 years is closer to when he no longer had it.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1200 » by MisterHibachi » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:17 am

Lakers and Nets was scheduled for 10 pm, and it still hasn't tipped off at 10:17. TNT games in particular are absolutely awful at tipping off on time. It's so bad.
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