2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[Dr Positivity]

The Bucks deciding not to trade for Paul so they could go for king's ransom for Holiday is devastating. That was the title move right there, early 70s Oscar 2.0. With the pace Paul has the Suns on after they'd done nothing for a decade, hard to see anyone stopping them if he's added to the 1st place team. More than just his on court play the Bucks have a different season emotionally if led by a Paul going for his ring in my opinion.

[NinjaSheppard]

Not just that but adding Paul instead of Holiday also gives you a lot more flexibility in the future to make changes to your roster because you keep most of your first rounders.

Bucks are now basically stuck with the roster they have.

Letting Brogdon walk over money only to trade a Paul George picks package for Holiday and then have to give him 35 mil a year is one of the most insane things a team has done.

[GSP]

Monty Williams has to be the most underrated coach in the league right?

Nah Taylor Jenkins is and prolly Snyder as well altho he will get more credit this season. Thibs before this season was really underrated ppl acted like he was a relic of a coach and couldnt adapt to todays league/game when he invented the default pick and roll defending scheme before everything was switch heavy.

Okc coach might also be but im not gonna pretend ive seen much Okc games. I have no idea how theyre 15-21

Suns seem more Cp3 than anything to me TBH. Phoenix had a nice season last year but they were nothing special outside the bubble

[RCM88x]

Monty Williams has to be the most underrated coach in the league right?

Nah Taylor Jenkins is and prolly Snyder as well altho he will get more credit this season. Thibs before this season was really underrated ppl acted like he was a relic of a coach and couldnt adapt to todays league/game when he invented the default pick and roll defending scheme before everything was switch heavy.

Okc coach might also be but im not gonna pretend ive seen much Okc games. I have no idea how theyre 15-21

Suns seem more Cp3 than anything to me TBH. Phoenix had a nice season last year but they were nothing special outside the bubble

They weren't anything special last year sure, but they did go from b2b -8 SRS seasons to a +.5 SRS last year. That is a pretty massive improvement, even before the bubble streak.

Sure they got CP3 and Crowder, but they did lose Rubio and Oubre, who were big in their end of the season streak.

They're currently 2nd in SRS, that is pretty insane for this roster. He definitely deserves lots of credit IMO considering where they were before he got there two years ago.

[limbo]

Suns are nice, but they've also caught some fortuitous breaks against some of the best teams they've faced. Warriors had no Steph or Draymond last time, Lakers no AD or Gasol, Portland no CJ or Nurk (though they've been out for some time now), Boston no Brown or Smart, they played Brooklyn that had no KD or Kyrie but still lost.

But at least they've figured out how to beat and blow out the bad/mediocre teams, i think that's more of where the 'CP3 effect' comes in... He's a guy that will turn up and compete every single night and instill the same type of mindset on the team, and that's valuable in the sense of not dropping those 'trap' type games against maybe worse opposition, where you have an injury or two on the squad or just don't feel like playing hard after going down big early/having a bad shooting day, and then just quitting on the game.

That said, i would have Suns firmly in the Top 4 of the West, with both LA teams and Utah of course, and i don't really think teams like Portland, San Antonio, Dallas are really on the same level... Denver can be if the rest of the team around Jokic picks it up, they can be very tough in that case, and Golden State is somewhat of a dark horse because Curry can get hot from outside, but overall i wouldn't count on it, Phoenix over Golden State, imo, in a Playoff series.

[GSP]

Monty Williams has to be the most underrated coach in the league right?

Nah Taylor Jenkins is and prolly Snyder as well altho he will get more credit this season. Thibs before this season was really underrated ppl acted like he was a relic of a coach and couldnt adapt to todays league/game when he invented the default pick and roll defending scheme before everything was switch heavy.

Okc coach might also be but im not gonna pretend ive seen much Okc games. I have no idea how theyre 15-21

Suns seem more Cp3 than anything to me TBH. Phoenix had a nice season last year but they were nothing special outside the bubble

They weren't anything special last year sure, but they did go from b2b -8 SRS seasons to a +.5 SRS last year. That is a pretty massive improvement, even before the bubble streak.

Sure they got CP3 and Crowder, but they did lose Rubio and Oubre, who were big in their end of the season streak.

They're currently 2nd in SRS, that is pretty insane for this roster. He definitely deserves lots of credit IMO considering where they were before he got there two years ago.

The 19 and specially 18 Suns teams were completely different from last years tho. The only constant was Booker so i dont know how much relevance the Srs jump has to do with coaching

If youre talking about their bubble streak Oubre didnt play a single game in there. That was a big storyline for them going undefeated and why letting him go was an easy decision for them. As for Rubio hes worse than Cp3 in basically everyway except maybe passing where theyre close and Ricky is a good defensive Pg too. But Cp3 is eons behind as a scorer, shooter and finisher. Cp3 was coming off an All Nba 2nd team season too. A massive upgrade

Aytons suspension has to factor in for their lower season Srs too and the younger players who were rookies or sophomores last season maturing now which contributes to better play. Theyve been a much healthier team in general. They had alot of injury issues last season with rotation players in and out of the lineup too and so far theyve been one of the healthiest teams in the league this season. Their top 6 players have barely missed games. Booker, Bridges, Cp3, Ayton, Crowder and Cam have played a combined 201/210 available games so far so their top 6 players have played 96% of the season combined

Monty is clearly a capable coach but id hesitate with assigning a lot of the team success to him ATM. There are alot of factors to consider

[GSP]

Suns are nice, but they've also caught some fortuitous breaks against some of the best teams they've faced. Warriors had no Steph or Draymond last time, Lakers no AD or Gasol, Portland no CJ or Nurk (though they've been out for some time now), Boston no Brown or Smart, they played Brooklyn that had no KD or Kyrie but still lost.

But at least they've figured out how to beat and blow out the bad/mediocre teams, i think that's more of where the 'CP3 effect' comes in... He's a guy that will turn up and compete every single night and instill the same type of mindset on the team, and that's valuable in the sense of not dropping those 'trap' type games against maybe worse opposition, where you have an injury or two on the squad or just don't feel like playing hard after going down big early/having a bad shooting day, and then just quitting on the game.

That said, i would have Suns firmly in the Top 4 of the West, with both LA teams and Utah of course, and i don't really think teams like Portland, San Antonio, Dallas are really on the same level... Denver can be if the rest of the team around Jokic picks it up, they can be very tough in that case, and Golden State is somewhat of a dark horse because Curry can get hot from outside, but overall i wouldn't count on it, Phoenix over Golden State, imo, in a Playoff series.

They have played some injured teams but its not like a 2020 Bucks situation where their Srs was heavily inflated from beating up on a lot of injured teams missing their best/star players. Theyve beaten a healthy Jazz and Sixers who have been the 1 seeds in their conferences for a while now

Also as for the Warriors example they blew out a healthy Warriors by 20+ without Booker earlier in the season

[bondom34]

The Suns bench has been really really good, Paul has obviously helped but they're getting a good bit from their depth too (and hey Cam Payne looks like a solid backup which I didn't see coming but is cool).

Cameron Johnson, Saric, Payne, and some others giving them quality minutes.

[Dupp]

Not just that but adding Paul instead of Holiday also gives you a lot more flexibility in the future to make changes to your roster because you keep most of your first rounders.

Bucks are now basically stuck with the roster they have.

Letting Brogdon walk over money only to trade a Paul George picks package for Holiday and then have to give him 35 mil a year is one of the most insane things a team has done.

Yeh it pretty bad. I think a lot of us on realgm after the bucks playoff flameout said they need to trade for Paul if they wanna win a title. Did they even try? Seems like they coulda got him.

But yeah one rely bad mistakes with the brogdon and then not Paul / 45 picks for Jrue.

[theonlyclutch]

Not just that but adding Paul instead of Holiday also gives you a lot more flexibility in the future to make changes to your roster because you keep most of your first rounders.

Bucks are now basically stuck with the roster they have.

Letting Brogdon walk over money only to trade a Paul George picks package for Holiday and then have to give him 35 mil a year is one of the most insane things a team has done.

Yeh it pretty bad. I think a lot of us on realgm after the bucks playoff flameout said they need to trade for Paul if they wanna win a title. Did they even try? Seems like they coulda got him.

But yeah one rely bad mistakes with the brogdon and then not Paul / 45 picks for Jrue.

In an alternate universe the Bucks resign Brogdon, tell Bledsoe to pound sand after '19 and trade Brogdon + scraps for Paul. Oh boy would that be a scary team with still ways to improve with more first rounders.

[Jaivl]

Okc coach might also be but im not gonna pretend ive seen much Okc games. I have no idea how theyre 15-21

Luck on close games, we suck.

[bondom34]

Okc coach might also be but im not gonna pretend ive seen much Okc games. I have no idea how theyre 15-21

Luck on close games, we suck.

Shai's making a huge leap though, and I do think he's been solid. Horford's been OK too, but Shai's a guy who made a leap to a tier I didn't see coming ever (Vecenie just had him as his 6th ranked prospect). But yea the close games have been annoying.

They're getting a freakin' career season from Mike Muscala and Justin Jackson and it's getting them a few wins.

Also on Shai his self creation has been insane.

Read on Twitter

[bondom34]

Not surprised at all by Mitchell over Conley (heck, Mike probably prefers it), most of the selections look pretty solid to me. VanVleet is the big exclusion imo (LaVine), and would've notably preferred Turner over Vucevic (Young vs Beal and Grant vs Brown more minor preferences).

Read on Twitter

Happy for Conley.

[yoyoboy]

Finally Conley!

[Brofessor24]

Not just that but adding Paul instead of Holiday also gives you a lot more flexibility in the future to make changes to your roster because you keep most of your first rounders.

Bucks are now basically stuck with the roster they have.

Letting Brogdon walk over money only to trade a Paul George picks package for Holiday and then have to give him 35 mil a year is one of the most insane things a team has done.

Spot on.

It's ridiculous how so many people keep giving the Bucks a pass for that one.

You should never give up that much for a player who hasn't been an All-Star since 2013.

[Brofessor24]

Almost every year there is at least one questionable All-Star selection. The fact that Conley is an All-Star and Trae isn't is honestly pathetic. The mental gymnastics that some people are using in order to justify Mike's AS selection are hilarious. IMO Conley isn't a true AS, and no one is gonna convince me otherwise.

If anything, the fact that Trae wasn't chosen for the ASG is a perfect example of how the modern NBA is the best/most talented era in NBA history. If Trae had been putting up 26.4 ppg and 9.4 apg in the 80s/90s/early 2000s, he would have been a shoe-in for the ASG and it wouldn't have been questioned at all.

[Brofessor24]

Surprised the NBA actually made the right decision with Chris Paul over Booker. I thought it would end up like 2017 when they picked DeAndre Jordan over Paul to represent the Clippers.

Also, the word "snub" gets thrown around so often it has lost its meaning. Every year, so many (twitter) fans cry about a dozen players being disrespected and snubbed from the All Star game. It's almost like everyone is a snub these days. Only clear All Stars who got robbed are snubs. Borderline All Stars who missed out to others around the same level are just honorable mentions.

Right on. Someone like Trae Young is actually an AS snub.

[Brofessor24]

Bad call at the end but Harden is a basketball genius. Playmaking, scoring and even defending. Man is an offensive system by himself. Great game by him tonight. Nets continue to improve. Even with no KD out there, they did not look that terrible defensively. With KD, they will be even better obviously. They just need a slightly below-average/ or average defence that's all.

"Genius" is one way to describe how Harden plays, I guess. I'd lean more towards "cowardice" or "cheating," personally.

Biased hater.

Harden is a basketball genius whether you like it or not.

[HeartBreakKid]

Almost every year there is at least one questionable All-Star selection. The fact that Conley is an All-Star and Trae isn't is honestly pathetic. The mental gymnastics that some people are using in order to justify Mike's AS selection are hilarious. IMO Conley isn't a true AS, and no one is gonna convince me otherwise.

If anything, the fact that Trae wasn't chosen for the ASG is a perfect example of how the modern NBA is the best/most talented era in NBA history. If Trae had been putting up 26.4 ppg and 9.4 apg in the 80s/90s/early 2000s, he would have been a shoe-in for the ASG and it wouldn't have been questioned at all.

I mean it's a more offensive friendly league now, so obviously putting up 26/9 isn't going to be as impressive now as it was back then.


I mean Terry Porter doesn't have as many points scored but his stats are pretty damn good and he only made two all-star teams. All-star snubs are not really proof of how talented an era is, it's just people picking the wrong guys.



Heck, Steph Curry was snubbed from an all-star spot in 2013 (8 years ago already!) and he was better than Trae Young. The league was way less talented in 2013 now than 2021. So it's not a consistent measure.

[parsnips33]

Thunder fans/viewers:

How has Al Horford been this year? I know a lot of people speculated his sudden downturn last year was a result of playing out of position next to Embiid - has that borne out? Is he playing more center now and does he seem to be more in line with his impact in Boston? He's definitely a player it's hard to gauge just looking at the box score