2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[Max123]

What do you guys think if Kawhi Leonard's defense this post season?

He was very solid in Mavs series, but I wouldn't call him all-time great anymore.

When was the last time you would call Kawhi ATG on the defensive end? Does it go as far back as 2016?


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[parsnips33]

Does a healthy Nuggets team win that series? If you're the GM, are you trying to run this team back or make some changes in the offseason?

[parsnips33]

Feels pretty strange that Cuban has given a sports gambler with no league experience this much control over the roster. Doubt he would choose Voulgaris over Doncic if it comes to it, but nevertheless strange situation.

https://theathletic.com/2649806/2021/06/14/inside-the-mavericks-front-office-mark-cubans-shadow-gm-is-causing-a-rift-with-luka-doncic

In early February, during the second quarter of a home game against the Golden State Warriors, Luka Doncic carelessly turned over the ball and received feedback from a Dallas Mavericks employee he didn’t care for: Haralabos Voulgaris, a well-known sports gambler hired by team owner Mark Cuban in 2018.

Voulgaris, sitting with an open laptop in his typical courtside seat across from the Mavericks’ bench, motioned downward with his hands, which Doncic specifically interpreted as Voulgaris telling him to calm down, multiple team and league sources tell The Athletic. Doncic snapped back, telling Voulgaris, according to one source’s recollection, “Don’t **** tell me to calm down.” The same sources say Voulgaris later professed that his motion wasn’t solely directed at Doncic, but regardless of intent, it only worsened an already inflamed relationship between the two.

Multiple league and team sources tell The Athletic that Voulgaris has been the most influential voice within the Mavericks front office since joining the team, either initiating or approving virtually every transaction made over the past two seasons. Those same sources add that Voulgaris has frequently gone as far as scripting the starting lineups and rotations for longtime head coach Rick Carlisle.

Doncic noticed Voulgaris’ early departure. In the locker room after the game, multiple league and team sources say he told teammates he viewed Voulgaris leaving before the game’s conclusion as him quitting on them.

Yeah this is pretty weird, feels like we could see more of these types of situation as gambling becomes more normalized and a more integral part of the business

[falcolombardi]

Feels pretty strange that Cuban has given a sports gambler with no league experience this much control over the roster. Doubt he would choose Voulgaris over Doncic if it comes to it, but nevertheless strange situation.

https://theathletic.com/2649806/2021/06/14/inside-the-mavericks-front-office-mark-cubans-shadow-gm-is-causing-a-rift-with-luka-doncic

In early February, during the second quarter of a home game against the Golden State Warriors, Luka Doncic carelessly turned over the ball and received feedback from a Dallas Mavericks employee he didn’t care for: Haralabos Voulgaris, a well-known sports gambler hired by team owner Mark Cuban in 2018.

Voulgaris, sitting with an open laptop in his typical courtside seat across from the Mavericks’ bench, motioned downward with his hands, which Doncic specifically interpreted as Voulgaris telling him to calm down, multiple team and league sources tell The Athletic. Doncic snapped back, telling Voulgaris, according to one source’s recollection, “Don’t **** tell me to calm down.” The same sources say Voulgaris later professed that his motion wasn’t solely directed at Doncic, but regardless of intent, it only worsened an already inflamed relationship between the two.

Multiple league and team sources tell The Athletic that Voulgaris has been the most influential voice within the Mavericks front office since joining the team, either initiating or approving virtually every transaction made over the past two seasons. Those same sources add that Voulgaris has frequently gone as far as scripting the starting lineups and rotations for longtime head coach Rick Carlisle.

Doncic noticed Voulgaris’ early departure. In the locker room after the game, multiple league and team sources say he told teammates he viewed Voulgaris leaving before the game’s conclusion as him quitting on them.

Yeah this is pretty weird, feels like we could see more of these types of situation as gambling becomes more normalized and a more integral part of the business

i think is just marc cuban being a weirdo, the way the whole thingh is presented in the article is some bizarro rasputin scenario, just weird

[eminence]

I do not think a healthy Nuggets squad wins that series. I'd be looking for significant defensive help, and would probably be willing to trade MPJ to do it.

[parsnips33]

Feels pretty strange that Cuban has given a sports gambler with no league experience this much control over the roster. Doubt he would choose Voulgaris over Doncic if it comes to it, but nevertheless strange situation.

https://theathletic.com/2649806/2021/06/14/inside-the-mavericks-front-office-mark-cubans-shadow-gm-is-causing-a-rift-with-luka-doncic

Yeah this is pretty weird, feels like we could see more of these types of situation as gambling becomes more normalized and a more integral part of the business

i think is just marc cuban being a weirdo, the way the whole thingh is presented in the article is some bizarro rasputin scenario, just weird

I think these charismatic mysterious gambler types are particularly good at "seducing" rich guys Nothing feeds an owners ego more than "Hey look I brought in this non-basketball guy and he's smarter than all the basketball guys!"

[MartinToVaught]

Feels pretty strange that Cuban has given a sports gambler with no league experience this much control over the roster. Doubt he would choose Voulgaris over Doncic if it comes to it, but nevertheless strange situation.

Between this insanity and the franchise's sexual harrassment scandals from a couple years ago, I think it's safe to say that Cuban is a bad owner. It was already looking that way when he blew up a championship team because he misunderstood the CBA and also desperately wanted to sign Deron Williams and Dwight Howard of all players. But it's official now.

Good owners don't hire some guy from Bill Simmons' podcasts to make personnel moves, especially when they have a talent like Luka in his prime. The vocal minority of Mavs fans who want Carlisle fired should reconsider their stance. At this point, Cuban might hire some random NBA Twitter user to replace him.

[Texas Chuck]

I think these charismatic mysterious gambler types are particularly good at "seducing" rich guys Nothing feeds an owners ego more than "Hey look I brought in this non-basketball guy and he's smarter than all the basketball guys!"

Harlabob has been a big player at the Sloan conference as has Cuban. I think that is their primary connection more than the gambling. But Cuban was the first NBA owner to fully embrace analytics. When he bought the team he hired a whole team of statisticians and just had them collecting data on literally everything that happened in a game from winning the opening tip, to which refs called which violations the most to number of times a player hit the floor, to shooting percentages from every spot on the floor to anything and everything.

So he loves data and he's willing to consider solutions that are outside of the box. Not surprising that a guy like Bob would have influence. But by the same token, Donnie was here when he bought the team and is still running basketball operations. Carlisle has been around 2nd only to Pop and maybe Spo? He's also kept the traditional basketball guys around and part of the brain trust.

From what I know of Bob I think the biggest problem is just he's a jerk more than it being a non-traditional vs traditional. Carlisle and Donnie have been dealing with heavy analytic input their entire tenure under Cuban.

[Texas Chuck]

Feels pretty strange that Cuban has given a sports gambler with no league experience this much control over the roster. Doubt he would choose Voulgaris over Doncic if it comes to it, but nevertheless strange situation.

Between this insanity and the franchise's sexual harrassment scandals from a couple years ago, I think it's safe to say that Cuban is a bad owner. It was already looking that way when he blew up a championship team because he misunderstood the CBA and also desperately wanted to sign Deron Williams and Dwight Howard of all players. But it's official now.

The Pants DJ/Earl K Sneed was awful and Cuban mishandled it. Absolutely. He actually understood the CBA very well and everything he predicted would happen under it has. But that team was never going to repeat. 2011 was the last year of superstar Dirk, Kidd was 39, Terry was declining, Marion was declining, DeShawn was declining, Haywood was declining, Butler was declining and coming off of major injury. The only two guys who weren't in Chandler and Barea were free agents.

Plus Chris Paul(not Deron) and Howard had spoken about playing together and had mentioned doing so in Dallas. Made sense to take a swing at that even if it failed.

And its hard to look at the franchise with the 2nd best record in the entire league since he bought the team immediately coming off a period of the worst decade in major American professional sports and conclude this is a bad owner.

[MartinToVaught]

And its hard to look at the franchise with the 2nd best record in the entire league since he bought the team immediately coming off a period of the worst decade in major American professional sports and conclude this is a bad owner.

Just to be clear, I don't think Cuban was always a bad owner. It just seems like the championship went to his head and now he thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and he'll prove it by hiring one of Bill Simmons' podcast guests to be the GM.

I think most people would agree that the biggest reasons for the Mavs' run of success are Dirk and Carlisle. Cuban inherited Dirk from the previous ownership, and he hired Carlisle back when he was still a great owner. Fortunately for Mavs fans, he's at least not entertaining the silly idea of firing Carlisle.

[Texas Chuck]

And its hard to look at the franchise with the 2nd best record in the entire league since he bought the team immediately coming off a period of the worst decade in major American professional sports and conclude this is a bad owner.

Just to be clear, I don't think Cuban was always a bad owner. It just seems like the championship went to his head and now he thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and he'll prove it by hiring one of Bill Simmons' podcast guests to be the GM.

I think most people would agree that the biggest reasons for the Mavs' run of success are Dirk and Carlisle. Cuban inherited Dirk from the previous ownership, and he hired Carlisle back when he was still a great owner. Fortunately for Mavs fans, he's at least not entertaining the silly idea of firing Carlisle.

Of course Dirk is the most important reason. But you are badly undervaluing what a good owner brings versus a bad one and Cuban doesn't remotely compare to guys like Glen Taylor, the Maloofs/Ranadive, Gilbert, the Bensons, the Buss kids, etc...

[falcolombardi]

I think these charismatic mysterious gambler types are particularly good at "seducing" rich guys Nothing feeds an owners ego more than "Hey look I brought in this non-basketball guy and he's smarter than all the basketball guys!"

Harlabob has been a big player at the Sloan conference as has Cuban. I think that is their primary connection more than the gambling. But Cuban was the first NBA owner to fully embrace analytics. When he bought the team he hired a whole team of statisticians and just had them collecting data on literally everything that happened in a game from winning the opening tip, to which refs called which violations the most to number of times a player hit the floor, to shooting percentages from every spot on the floor to anything and everything.

So he loves data and he's willing to consider solutions that are outside of the box. Not surprising that a guy like Bob would have influence. But by the same token, Donnie was here when he bought the team and is still running basketball operations. Carlisle has been around 2nd only to Pop and maybe Spo? He's also kept the traditional basketball guys around and part of the brain trust.

From what I know of Bob I think the biggest problem is just he's a jerk more than it being a non-traditional vs traditional. Carlisle and Donnie have been dealing with heavy analytic input their entire tenure under Cuban.

i only saw the summary of the article (no athletic subscription) but doesnt it suggest this harlabob dude has authority over Carlisle? that seems not a good idea if it was true. both ego clashing wise and undermining the coach

[parsnips33]

And its hard to look at the franchise with the 2nd best record in the entire league since he bought the team immediately coming off a period of the worst decade in major American professional sports and conclude this is a bad owner.

Just to be clear, I don't think Cuban was always a bad owner. It just seems like the championship went to his head and now he thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and he'll prove it by hiring one of Bill Simmons' podcast guests to be the GM.

I think most people would agree that the biggest reasons for the Mavs' run of success are Dirk and Carlisle. Cuban inherited Dirk from the previous ownership, and he hired Carlisle back when he was still a great owner. Fortunately for Mavs fans, he's at least not entertaining the silly idea of firing Carlisle.

Of course Dirk is the most important reason. But you are badly undervaluing what a good owner brings versus a bad one and Cuban doesn't remotely compare to guys like Glen Taylor, the Maloofs/Ranadive, Gilbert, the Bensons, the Buss kids, etc...

Yeah I think as long as an owner is 1) willing to spend a ton of money 2) willing to take a step-back and not meddle too much in decision-making, there's not much to complain about

[Krodis]

If the Nets had closed out Game 3 they might still be title favorites. As is they're in deep trouble.

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[falcolombardi]

If the Nets had closed out Game 3 they might still be title favorites. As is they're in deep trouble.

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one of durant or kyrie getting injured was always a possibility they were aware of when signing them...but harden injury in game 1 was just **** up bad luck, and kyrie injury was accidental to make it worse

right now it may not seem like a big deal, they have 2022 amf further, but is still losing years in a title window to injury

their players will be a year older and kd/irving just as injury prone next year as their window starts to shrink

[yoyoboy]

I mean Voulgaris is the same guy who said this:



So it’s not too surprising the guy’s acting the way he is. I respect his abilities but he’s always struck me as sort of a douche.

[parsnips33]

I mean Voulgaris is the same guy who said this:



So it’s not too surprising the guy’s acting the way he is. I respect his abilities but he’s always struck me as sort of a douche.

Hey at least he knows it sounds arrogant

[70sFan]

What do you guys think if Kawhi Leonard's defense this post season?

He was very solid in Mavs series, but I wouldn't call him all-time great anymore.

When was the last time you would call Kawhi ATG on the defensive end? Does it go as far back as 2016?


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He still had his moments in 2017 and 2019, but he definitely wasn't elite in his Clippers career so far.

[Mos_Heat]

Haralabob made his millions by using analytics against the books in mid 00's. Now he's a part of NBA FO. Of course he thinks that he solved the game and acts like a jerk. I would do the same tbh

[eminence]

Hawks missing a lot of easy looks they may regret.