2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[Outside]

Let's appreciate what Giannis just did without immediately having to throw him in relief against Lebron, Harden, KD etc. I mean I know this is the "Player Comparison" board but what a joyless way to talk about what was a truly special series and playoff run by Giannis and the rest of the Bucks team

I'm personally most excited for the "Does Giannis secretly suck because he's not scalable?" thread that will inevitably appear in the next two months.

Some people try to take the fun out of a candy bar. Humans are a strange species.

[parsnips33]

Also, I'll just say to Bucks fans: be happy people are bringing up injuries to other teams, be happy people are already starting to doubt.

One of the reasons 2015-2016 was such a magical season for the Warriors (even with the way it ended) was that they had just won a ring and yet still had everything to prove. It's impossible to rest on your laurels if nobody wants to give them to you in the first place.

[Goudelock]

Didn't know if it was worth making a topic about, so I'll just post my question here.

I'm making a huge assumption here, but it seems that teams "building the wall" to stop Giannis is a thing of the past now that the Bucks are using him more as an off-ball player and post guy rather than a point-forward.

So (and I'm making another huge assumption here) assuming that the Bucks win another ring in the next few years and Antetokounmpo keeps averaging 30-10 with DPOY-level defense on a contender, do you think we'll see "The Wall" become mythologized in 20 or so years? Similar to how the "Jordan Rules" are now a staple part of any history of the NBA.

Will we see slo-mo black and white images of Kawhi and Siakam and Gasol fouling the Greek Freak with some dramatic music in a 2041 documentary, or a montage of images showing three Heat players converging on Giannis with coach Kendrick Nunn saying "We knew we didn't have to worry about Eric Bledsoe and just sold out to stop Giannis"?

And then we get a quick mention from the narrator that Jrue Holiday helped the Bucks, but the focus is that Giannis learned how to win? I guess this is all dependent on how the next few years go and if the Bucks become the dominant team in the NBA. But I for one could see this being a thing.

[BobbyPortisFan]

The GB is wild right now. So many posts with like 10-20 likes talking about how Giannis is much better than LeBron and KD and he's peaked higher than them already. Just amazing.

Anytime there's someone new to pretend to like to **** on someone else this happens, it's not like KD really has much fanbase, it's mostly just dudes hating on Lebron. In any case Giannis IS better than Durant and the only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because he hopped onto the Warriors team.

You can argue that Giannis is better than KD thought it's a tough argument but no way he's peaked higher than KD IMO.

Giannis almost won a title with an average team in his first year as a superstar and won b2b mvp's playing better than durant ever has. KD hasn't been the best player on his team since 2014. You're clearly overeacting to a few games a season. Giannis got a little help and instnatly won with a way less talented version of the okc thunder.

How has giannis not peaked higher...

[RCM88x]

Anytime there's someone new to pretend to like to **** on someone else this happens, it's not like KD really has much fanbase, it's mostly just dudes hating on Lebron. In any case Giannis IS better than Durant and the only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because he hopped onto the Warriors team.

You can argue that Giannis is better than KD thought it's a tough argument but no way he's peaked higher than KD IMO.

Giannis almost won a title with an average team in his first year as a superstar and won b2b mvp's playing better than durant ever has. KD hasn't been the best player on his team since 2014. You're clearly overeacting to a few games a season. Giannis got a little help and instnatly won with a way less talented version of the okc thunder.

How has giannis not peaked higher...

Look at the teams Giannis faced vs the teams OKC faced in the playoffs from 2012-2016, it's laughable.

Amazing how it took less than a week for people to forget who played who.

[falcolombardi]

this may be a weird think to ask about a championship team but what do the bucks do now ?

keep the same roster or should they try to upgrade ( can they do that without their first round picks?)

i think they should look to bring 3 and D players who can stay on the floor against a team like brooklyn

portis and Forbes are positions thst could be upgraded for that matchup (portis likely leaves for a big Pacheck which would make bucks choice easier amd avoid them a though decision there)

they also need a back up point guard and if possible another wing player imo

[parsnips33]

Anytime there's someone new to pretend to like to **** on someone else this happens, it's not like KD really has much fanbase, it's mostly just dudes hating on Lebron. In any case Giannis IS better than Durant and the only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because he hopped onto the Warriors team.

You can argue that Giannis is better than KD thought it's a tough argument but no way he's peaked higher than KD IMO.

Giannis almost won a title with an average team in his first year as a superstar and won b2b mvp's playing better than durant ever has. KD hasn't been the best player on his team since 2014. You're clearly overeacting to a few games a season. Giannis got a little help and instnatly won with a way less talented version of the okc thunder.

How has giannis not peaked higher...

KD had his team in the Finals at 23, only issue is he had to play the GOAT on a super team. 2013 Russ injured in the first round. 2014 they lose to the dominant eventual champion Spurs. 2015 KD injured. If losing to the eventual champ is "almost winning a title" he'd done it a couple times by age 25

[BobbyPortisFan]

You can argue that Giannis is better than KD thought it's a tough argument but no way he's peaked higher than KD IMO.

Giannis almost won a title with an average team in his first year as a superstar and won b2b mvp's playing better than durant ever has. KD hasn't been the best player on his team since 2014. You're clearly overeacting to a few games a season. Giannis got a little help and instnatly won with a way less talented version of the okc thunder.

How has giannis not peaked higher...

KD had his team in the Finals at 23, only issue is he had to play the GOAT on a super team. 2013 Russ injured in the first round. 2014 they lose to the dominant eventual champion Spurs. 2015 KD injured. If losing to the eventual champ is "almost winning a title" he'd done it a couple times by age 25

You do realize that kd had way more help at okc than giannis did. Right? Saying he "led his team" as if 23 year old durant was anywhere near as good as any of the mvp level superstars in recent memory. 24 year old giannis did everything for a contender while putting up one of the best mvp seasons in recent history. Chauncey billups technically "led a team" to the finals, does that mean he's better than "second fidde" anthony davis? Westbrook was already creating as much for the offense as prime isiah, Ibaka was one of the best defenders in the game, and Harden was one of the most effecient third or second options you could find. KD was the best by default. Comparing him to peak embid is disrespectful, let alone peak giannis.

check literally any part of the bballreference sheet for those playoffs that isn't ppg and get back to me on how 23 year old durant belongs in this conversation.

the next two times okc "almost won a title" westbrook literally outplayed him. Again the key here is "with an average team."

[BobbyPortisFan]

You can argue that Giannis is better than KD thought it's a tough argument but no way he's peaked higher than KD IMO.

Giannis almost won a title with an average team in his first year as a superstar and won b2b mvp's playing better than durant ever has. KD hasn't been the best player on his team since 2014. You're clearly overeacting to a few games a season. Giannis got a little help and instnatly won with a way less talented version of the okc thunder.

How has giannis not peaked higher...

KD had his team in the Finals at 23, only issue is he had to play the GOAT on a super team. 2013 Russ injured in the first round. 2014 they lose to the dominant eventual champion Spurs. 2015 KD injured. If losing to the eventual champ is "almost winning a title" he'd done it a couple times by age 25

You do realize that kd had way more help at okc than giannis did. Right? Saying he "led his team" as if 23 year old durant was anywhere near as good as any of the mvp level superstars in recent memory. 24 year old giannis did everything for a contender while putting up one of the best mvp seasons in recent history. Chauncey billups technically "led a team" to the finals, does that mean he's better than "second fidde" anthony davis? Westbrook was already creating as much for the offense as prime isiah, Ibaka was one of the best defenders in the game, and Harden was one of the most effecient third or second options you could find. KD was the best by default. Comparing him to peak embid is disrespectful, let alone peak giannis.

check literally any part of the bballreference sheet for those playoffs that isn't ppg and get back to me on how 23 year old durant belongs in this conversation.

the next two times okc "almost won a title" westbrook literally outplayed him. Again the key here is "with an average team."

The suns, miami and raptors were all strong teams. Did you forget that the raptors won sixty without their superstar? That the heat took the lakers to six with two of their best three players injured, and that the suns won fifty nine games and lost as many games in the west as the bucks did in the finals?

[parsnips33]

Giannis almost won a title with an average team in his first year as a superstar and won b2b mvp's playing better than durant ever has. KD hasn't been the best player on his team since 2014. You're clearly overeacting to a few games a season. Giannis got a little help and instnatly won with a way less talented version of the okc thunder.

How has giannis not peaked higher...

KD had his team in the Finals at 23, only issue is he had to play the GOAT on a super team. 2013 Russ injured in the first round. 2014 they lose to the dominant eventual champion Spurs. 2015 KD injured. If losing to the eventual champ is "almost winning a title" he'd done it a couple times by age 25

You do realize that kd had way more help at okc than giannis did. Right? Saying he "led his team" as if 23 year old durant was anywhere near as good as any of the mvp level superstars in recent memory. 24 year old giannis did everything for a contender while putting up one of the best mvp seasons in recent history. Chauncey billups technically "led a team" to the finals, does that mean he's better than "second fidde" anthony davis? Westbrook was already creating as much for the offense as prime isiah, Ibaka was one of the best defenders in the game, and Harden was one of the most effecient third or second options you could find. KD was the best by default. Comparing him to peak embid is disrespectful, let alone peak giannis.

check literally any part of the bballreference sheet for those playoffs that isn't ppg and get back to me on how 23 year old durant belongs in this conversation.

the next two times okc "almost won a title" westbrook literally outplayed him. Again the key here is "with an average team."

Never said KD at 23 was better than Giannis this year, or other MVP level players. But I'm not sure getting to ECF in 2019 is all that much more impressive than what KD did in OKC. Let's not forget mid10's Western Conference was one of the most competitive conferences ever.

And there's no need to act like KD is Chauncey Billups, that's just disingenuous. There's plenty good arguments for taking Giannis over KD, you don't need to make **** up

[HeartBreakKid]

Anytime there's someone new to pretend to like to **** on someone else this happens, it's not like KD really has much fanbase, it's mostly just dudes hating on Lebron. In any case Giannis IS better than Durant and the only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because he hopped onto the Warriors team.

You can argue that Giannis is better than KD thought it's a tough argument but no way he's peaked higher than KD IMO.

Giannis almost won a title with an average team in his first year as a superstar and won b2b mvp's playing better than durant ever has. KD hasn't been the best player on his team since 2014. You're clearly overeacting to a few games a season. Giannis got a little help and instnatly won with a way less talented version of the okc thunder.

How has giannis not peaked higher...

Why are you pointing out that the Thunder had a better roster (sometimes) but not pointing out that they had better competition?

[Dupp]

Anytime there's someone new to pretend to like to **** on someone else this happens, it's not like KD really has much fanbase, it's mostly just dudes hating on Lebron. In any case Giannis IS better than Durant and the only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because he hopped onto the Warriors team.

You can argue that Giannis is better than KD thought it's a tough argument but no way he's peaked higher than KD IMO.

Giannis almost won a title with an average team in his first year as a superstar and won b2b mvp's playing better than durant ever has. KD hasn't been the best player on his team since 2014. You're clearly overeacting to a few games a season. Giannis got a little help and instnatly won with a way less talented version of the okc thunder.

How has giannis not peaked higher...

Giannis did not “almost win a title” his first year of being a superstar. Not even close devil free the

[Odinn21]

I feel like I must say this; there's less much fuss about Giannis' 2021 ring compared to what happened in 2019 after Kawhi won or in 2020 after LeBron won.
And considering how Giannis won, with a monster finals series (even though it's arguable that he was better on average through the run), I kind of feel like his ring is already kind of underrated.

I never thought I'd be comparing hypes over overreactions but here we are. It's kind of odd to me that Giannis isn't getting that kind of overreaction and I wanted to say something about it.

[falcolombardi]

I feel like I must say this; there's less much fuss about Giannis' 2021 ring compared to what happened in 2019 after Kawhi won or in 2020 after LeBron won.
And considering how Giannis won, with a monster finals series (even though it's arguable that he was better on average through the run), I kind of feel like his ring is already kind of underrated.

I never thought I'd be comparing hypes over overreactions but here we are. It's kind of odd to me that Giannis isn't getting that kind of overreaction and I wanted to say something about it.

in fairness it depends where you look

i looked at the nba reddit the way after game 6 and aae lots of threads asking if giannis ring made him greater than all of lebron or durant superteam rings

as with everythingh there will be overreactions amd those who pushback, and then the pushback can go too far too and people start underating giannis run

[kayess]

I feel like I must say this; there's less much fuss about Giannis' 2021 ring compared to what happened in 2019 after Kawhi won or in 2020 after LeBron won.
And considering how Giannis won, with a monster finals series (even though it's arguable that he was better on average through the run), I kind of feel like his ring is already kind of underrated.

I never thought I'd be comparing hypes over overreactions but here we are. It's kind of odd to me that Giannis isn't getting that kind of overreaction and I wanted to say something about it.

in fairness it depends where you look

i looked at the nba reddit the way after game 6 and aae lots of threads asking if giannis ring made him greater than all of lebron or durant superteam rings

as with everythingh there will be overreactions amd those who pushback, and then the pushback can go too far too and people start underating giannis run

Yeah this is true. The stack of injuries rightfully gets brought up against Phoenix, but not against Milwaukee (meanwhile, you will never hear the end of the Draymond suspension/Bogut absence; you'll also never hear about the Warriors facing a ton of injured teams in 2016 too).

It's also funny hearing Giannis (I **** LOVE the dude though) talking smack about superteams, acting like Middleton and Holliday aren't great players. Maybe he's talking about "built not bought" bull, but still.

[Colbinii]

I feel like I must say this; there's less much fuss about Giannis' 2021 ring compared to what happened in 2019 after Kawhi won or in 2020 after LeBron won.
And considering how Giannis won, with a monster finals series (even though it's arguable that he was better on average through the run), I kind of feel like his ring is already kind of underrated.

I never thought I'd be comparing hypes over overreactions but here we are. It's kind of odd to me that Giannis isn't getting that kind of overreaction and I wanted to say something about it.

in fairness it depends where you look

i looked at the nba reddit the way after game 6 and aae lots of threads asking if giannis ring made him greater than all of lebron or durant superteam rings

as with everythingh there will be overreactions amd those who pushback, and then the pushback can go too far too and people start underating giannis run

Yeah this is true. The stack of injuries rightfully gets brought up against Phoenix, but not against Milwaukee (meanwhile, you will never hear the end of the Draymond suspension/Bogut absence; you'll also never hear about the Warriors facing a ton of injured teams in 2016 too).

It's also funny hearing Giannis (I **** LOVE the dude though) talking smack about superteams, acting like Middleton and Holliday aren't great players. Maybe he's talking about "built not bought" bull, but still.

I cant be in the minority thinking I would prefer Holiday and Middleton to Kyrie and Love, or Lopez to J.R. Smith or Thompson.

[therealbig3]

Injuries obviously affected this entire playoff run, I'm very confident in saying that the champion wouldn't be either Milwaukee or Phoenix if major stars around the league weren't out with injuries during the playoffs.

In that sense, luck played a huge role for both Phoenix and Milwaukee in getting as far as they did. And that's not to discredit them, they only get to play who's in front of them, but it is what it is: there were better teams than them in both conferences, but injuries hit them hard and they ended up losing.

Honestly, the only relatively healthy contender either of them faced was each other, and for that reason, I do give Milwaukee some credit for coming through, because they still had to beat Phoenix...but at the same time, I'm also wondering if that's even that impressive, because of how little Phoenix actually proved this playoff run. Getting gentlemen swept by Milwaukee doesn't do anything to address the idea that they were a lucky team that only got as far as they did because of injuries. It just adds to it, honestly. Got pushed to 6 by an injured Lakers team, and got pushed to 6 by an injured Clippers team. And honestly, if it wasn't for missed FTs by George at the end of game 2, that series could have had a VERY different outcome, even without Kawhi.

[therealbig3]

in fairness it depends where you look

i looked at the nba reddit the way after game 6 and aae lots of threads asking if giannis ring made him greater than all of lebron or durant superteam rings

as with everythingh there will be overreactions amd those who pushback, and then the pushback can go too far too and people start underating giannis run

Yeah this is true. The stack of injuries rightfully gets brought up against Phoenix, but not against Milwaukee (meanwhile, you will never hear the end of the Draymond suspension/Bogut absence; you'll also never hear about the Warriors facing a ton of injured teams in 2016 too).

It's also funny hearing Giannis (I **** LOVE the dude though) talking smack about superteams, acting like Middleton and Holliday aren't great players. Maybe he's talking about "built not bought" bull, but still.

I cant be in the minority thinking I would prefer Holiday and Middleton to Kyrie and Love, or Lopez to J.R. Smith or Thompson.

It depends. Love I think is the weak link in the comparison. Because Kyrie was great in the playoffs for Cleveland, Love was the one that dropped the ball, and he's just a liability on defense most of the time. Holiday and Middleton are both good defensively, in addition to being capable on ball playmakers that can take a lot of the offensive responsibility off Giannis's shoulders. But Holiday and Middleton both had legit issues at various points in this playoff run. There were a lot of times they were just flat out awful, definitely not consistently great.

But JR Smith and Thompson stepped up for them, as much as we like to clown them. They were huge in the 16 title run. Lopez I feel like could have been targeted WAY more than he actually was, I don't think he's as effective as people think, I think it was poor coaching for the most part that he was even allowed out there. When the Nets had healthy bodies, Lopez was near unplayable. He only became effective once Durant became their only legit offensive weapon and Milwaukee was able to swarm him.

[kayess]

Yeah this is true. The stack of injuries rightfully gets brought up against Phoenix, but not against Milwaukee (meanwhile, you will never hear the end of the Draymond suspension/Bogut absence; you'll also never hear about the Warriors facing a ton of injured teams in 2016 too).

It's also funny hearing Giannis (I **** LOVE the dude though) talking smack about superteams, acting like Middleton and Holliday aren't great players. Maybe he's talking about "built not bought" bull, but still.

I cant be in the minority thinking I would prefer Holiday and Middleton to Kyrie and Love, or Lopez to J.R. Smith or Thompson.

It depends. Love I think is the weak link in the comparison. Because Kyrie was great in the playoffs for Cleveland, Love was the one that dropped the ball, and he's just a liability on defense most of the time. Holiday and Middleton are both good defensively, in addition to being capable on ball playmakers that can take a lot of the offensive responsibility off Giannis's shoulders. But Holiday and Middleton both had legit issues at various points in this playoff run. There were a lot of times they were just flat out awful, definitely not consistently great.

But JR Smith and Thompson stepped up for them, as much as we like to clown them. They were huge in the 16 title run. Lopez I feel like could have been targeted WAY more than he actually was, I don't think he's as effective as people think, I think it was poor coaching for the most part that he was even allowed out there. When the Nets had healthy bodies, Lopez was near unplayable. He only became effective once Durant became their only legit offensive weapon and Milwaukee was able to swarm him.

Yeah, but you saw Kyrie once he had to create for himself (though idk if he was injured in Boston or whatever). And when he's off on O... He does basically nothing. You don't get that with Jrue/Middleton (ESPECIALLY Jrue, who is still a capable playmaker and the better defender).

I do think that JR Smith/Thompson being less targetable on defense (Thompson not being Kevin Love against the Splash brothers was massive), I think the fact that Lopez was only targetable by Brooklyn is very telling. When they simply stopped giving up the midrange EVERY TIME and switched things up, Brook did a pretty commendable job on help defense on the perimeter (and obviousyl was great at the rim). Then of course, you have to respect his size on the boards, AND his shooting (so in a sense, he does a lot of what makes Thompson and JR great, all in one).

That was all by eye test though, not sure if the impact numbers bear it out. But I saw enough to believe that Lopez wouldn't have been the cause of defeat if you stagger his minutes properly.

Also, I don't even think it's a fit thing. The Cavs ran like Kyrie+Bron+2 wings+Thompson lineups against the Warriors plenty of times (some combo of JR/RJ/Shump/etc.), and Middleton/Jrue would fit in really well there

[frica]

I always had a feeling that 3x3 FIBA awards smaller players.
Seems like that's true. Average height is slightly under 6'5:



https://fiba3x3.com/docs/fitness-requirements-of-3x3-players.pdf

Looking through the player rankings, most are either guard or SF sized.