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Last season's discussion: viewtopic.php?t=1900020

I'll probably convert this thread into the 20-21 thread once the season starts with such a short offseason!

I'll be very surprised if they don't start around that 12/22 target date from a financial standpoint. It seems the "faction" of players who don't want to will be outnumbered. I am wondering if they'll be even more lenient with load management rules with the condensed season.

Corona is already wrecking a lot of sports leagues around the World and heavily impacting the outcome of games... It's sapping a lot of joy and legitimacy out of some tournaments before they even properly start...

In Europe none of the major basketball tournaments have the resources of the NBA to organize something like the bubble...

There's this international basketball tournament here in Europe that has some of thr biggest teams from multiple countries playing in it. Before the first game even started there was one dude on a team that was tested positive and because he was in contact with all of his teammates the whole team needed to be quarantined for like 2 weeks or something. This meant they couldn't show up to the pre-scheduled opening game and it the rules treated thr situation the same as a team voluntarily not showing up to a game, which means you get a loss in the record with a score of 0:20 or something. Luckily because the league hasn't started yet at the time they managed to appeal successfully and just got the game rescheduled for another time...

Now the tournament is like two or three games in, and one team is again going to be playing handicapped because some players got the virus or were in contact with someone who had it or something...

At this point it feels like a lottery/russian roulette type of deal, where the final results is totally impacted by which teams were the best at avoiding this BS.

It's basically what the NBA feared would happen in the bubble. If LeBron/AD got corona vs Houston and the Lakers still had to play the games, they're just done for... It's almost pointless to held tournaments if you're not going to have bubble type conditions and regulations. The final result will be based on luck and the winner is the last man standing.

If the NBA goes in with the play-in tournament where the 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th seeds do battle - will it count toward regular season stats? I assume so, but I wonder if they'll be an additional separate category for it to supplement it.

HeartBreakKid wrote:If the NBA goes in with the play-in tournament where the 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th seeds do battle - will it count toward regular season stats? I assume so, but I wonder if they'll be an additional separate category for it to supplement it.

On BBRef the Grizzlies and Blazers play in game isn't included in individual player stats but it's in the team stats I believe. Idk if that means anything but I find it weird.

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Not sure if this reads more that Russ doesn't want to play off ball or that Harden is above accountability in Houston.

Also at some point the Harden conversation needs to be revisited. If he can't make it work with Russ, who then can he make it work with?

MisterHibachi wrote:

Read on Twitter

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Not sure if this reads more that Russ doesn't want to play off ball or that Harden is above accountability in Houston.

Also at some point the Harden conversation needs to be revisited. If he can't make it work with Russ, who then can he make it work with?

Someone who doesn't play the same position as him and actually is capable off-ball.

CP3 worked, just seemed to have some personal disagreements. Feels like Russ just wants to play his game and not have to adjust his style to fit a team which is clearly going downhill.

Yeah this one sounds more of an indictment of Russ than Harden. And I'm by no means a Harden fan.

Looks like it is all on Harden. I'm sure this board berated Chris Paul and it is time to eat some crow.

Tillman Fertita is the Wayne Gretzky of bad owners. You think some guys are terrible owners like Dolan and Sarver and then this dude comes and just blows away their incompetence by so much that everyone just pales in comparison.

inherits a 65 win team with elite management and then completely destroys the franchise in 3 years.

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A KD/Harden/Kyrie combo is interesting. Feels like too many cooks in the kitchen, and who plays defense out of that trio?

MO12msu wrote:Yeah this one sounds more of an indictment of Russ than Harden. And I'm by no means a Harden fan.

I think Harden deserves some blame, but there's something crazy about Westbrook wanting out. I'm reminded of the old Groucho Marx quote of not wanting to be a part of any group with poor enough judgement to let someone like himself in it.

The fact Westbrook is currently in Houston is the reason why we know Houston is not a good place to be. A competent organization would not have Westbrook on their team, hence there is nowhere for Westbrook to go because where he goes, he'll still be there, taking up half a hundred million dollars per year that could go to a variety of players that help you win basketball games. And he still doesn't get this, because he hasn't learned a damn thing about team ball all these years later.

I say all that knowing it's not entirely fair, but as a UCLA guy, it's been maddening to see Westbrook become this and while I blame Westbrook, I also blame Presti & Brooks in OKC. "He's got everything but shooting and feel for the game, so let's just let him shoot whatever he feels like and I'm sure he'll figure it all out just so long as we keep Harden coming off the bench."

Doctor MJ wrote:

MO12msu wrote:Yeah this one sounds more of an indictment of Russ than Harden. And I'm by no means a Harden fan.

I think Harden deserves some blame, but there's something crazy about Westbrook wanting out. I'm reminded of the old Groucho Marx quote of not wanting to be a part of any group with poor enough judgement to let someone like himself in it.

The fact Westbrook is currently in Houston is the reason why we know Houston is not a good place to be. A competent organization would not have Westbrook on their team, hence there is nowhere for Westbrook to go because where he goes, he'll still be there, taking up half a hundred million dollars per year that could go to a variety of players that help you win basketball games. And he still doesn't get this, because he hasn't learned a damn thing about team ball all these years later.

I say all that knowing it's not entirely fair, but as a UCLA guy, it's been maddening to see Westbrook become this and while I blame Westbrook, I also blame Presti & Brooks in OKC. "He's got everything but shooting and feel for the game, so let's just let him shoot whatever he feels like and I'm sure he'll figure it all out just so long as we keep Harden coming off the bench."

I will say that I made that post before reading some of the details from the Athletic article. I still think Russ has a false sense of himself, which you outlined well. He probably doesn't even realize that he's generally viewed as a negative value contract around the league and it's pretty ludicrous for a negative value contract to request a trade.

But from what I read, Harden seemed to be above criticism and wanted to blame others. I'm paraphrasing but Russ tried to have a team meeting during the season and went one by one telling everyone (including calling himself out) how they could improve and it sounds like Harden pushed back. This is consistent with Harden's issues with CP3 as well, James doesn't like being called out and thinks he's above criticism. He takes it personal and thinks, "I'm the best player on this team, no one can say anything to me." Obviously he's the best player on the team, but a leader has to be accountable as well. And Fertita seems like the ultimate enabler of this kind of behavior, leading to the Russ-CP3 trade in the first place.

As a sidenote, this is also a good illustration of how important an owner is. Fertita has basically sunk this franchise in 3 years. As a Pistons fan, I've seen these issues first hand smh.

Wonder if Harden actually gets traded. The Nets potential packages sound like crap offers to me.

MO12msu wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

MO12msu wrote:Yeah this one sounds more of an indictment of Russ than Harden. And I'm by no means a Harden fan.

I think Harden deserves some blame, but there's something crazy about Westbrook wanting out. I'm reminded of the old Groucho Marx quote of not wanting to be a part of any group with poor enough judgement to let someone like himself in it.

The fact Westbrook is currently in Houston is the reason why we know Houston is not a good place to be. A competent organization would not have Westbrook on their team, hence there is nowhere for Westbrook to go because where he goes, he'll still be there, taking up half a hundred million dollars per year that could go to a variety of players that help you win basketball games. And he still doesn't get this, because he hasn't learned a damn thing about team ball all these years later.

I say all that knowing it's not entirely fair, but as a UCLA guy, it's been maddening to see Westbrook become this and while I blame Westbrook, I also blame Presti & Brooks in OKC. "He's got everything but shooting and feel for the game, so let's just let him shoot whatever he feels like and I'm sure he'll figure it all out just so long as we keep Harden coming off the bench."

I will say that I made that post before reading some of the details from the Athletic article. I still think Russ has a false sense of himself, which you outlined well. He probably doesn't even realize that he's generally viewed as a negative value contract around the league and it's pretty ludicrous for a negative value contract to request a trade.

But from what I read, Harden seemed to be above criticism and wanted to blame others. I'm paraphrasing but Russ tried to have a team meeting during the season and went one by one telling everyone (including calling himself out) how they could improve and it sounds like Harden pushed back. This is consistent with Harden's issues with CP3 as well, James doesn't like being called out and thinks he's above criticism. He takes it personal and thinks, "I'm the best player on this team, no one can say anything to me." Obviously he's the best player on the team, but a leader has to be accountable as well. And Fertita seems like the ultimate enabler of this kind of behavior, leading to the Russ-CP3 trade in the first place.

As a sidenote, this is also a good illustration of how important an owner is. Fertita has basically sunk this franchise in 3 years. As a Pistons fan, I've seen these issues first hand smh.

Oh no doubt that Harden's reputation is only calcifying as something of an anti-Steph. It's a shame.

Re: Fertitta sunk franchise. I wouldn't say he sunk it so much as he sold the life rafts and then Cap'n Harden steered for the iceberg. And I guess that means D'Antoni just decided to swim for it while Morey waited for his helicopter to arrive.

eminence wrote:Wonder if Harden actually gets traded. The Nets potential packages sound like crap offers to me.

Yeah I don't really get it as well

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The Suns are back in business! I already know Ayton is going to have a monster year.

Pacific division is going to be a bloodbath, and it's going to be really bad for visiting teams if the NBA wants to limit travel and schedules games based on geography.

I like that one a solid amount for both squads, Suns could be real solid if they fill in the bench pieces alright. I expect OKC to look to re-route most of the guys they've picked up lately, but we'll see where to.

Smart direction for the suns. Thunder also cleaning up. Win win.

Ricky @ Thunder. FINALLY.