Who is a better finisher than LeBron?

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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#21 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:10 am

I mean it depends on what you mean by finisher, lebrons prolly the most effective finisher ever but there are guys with better touch than him
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#22 » by 70sFan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:30 am

LivingLegend wrote:I read something that LeBron became the all-time leader in And-1s........that was like 2-3 years ago so if I could somehow find the stats again he probably has more And-1s than anybody by a wide margin

We don't have such stats for pre-2000s players.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#23 » by 70sFan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:35 am

Goudelock wrote:
DQuinn1575 wrote:Image


Okay, this is going to sound sacrilegious, but I don't think Erving is in the same tier as MJ and LeBron and Giannis when it comes to finishing around the rim. He was AMAZING close to the basket, don't get me wrong. But when I watch his games, it seems like Erving had a habit of getting too "cute" around the basket and blew some layups that a guy like LeBron or even Barkley wouldn't, possibly because he didn't have the raw strength the others did. Now this didn't happen very often, but it seemed to happen more to Erving than the other top-echelon guys. I actually think Dominique was better around the rim than Dr. J.

I don't think Julius was less efficient finisher around the rim than Jordan. LeBron is a freak, so you might be right but I don't think MJ is on this LeBron/Giannis/Barkley level either.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#24 » by Heej » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:33 pm

It has to be Giannis right? LeBron can create better but Giannis definitely just dominates inside. I'm sure LeBron has better touch on contested layups but it's just so damn hard to contest Giannis. I would trust Giannis to finish at the rim over Embiid than LeBron for example. So I guess Shaq gotta be number 1
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#25 » by Brooklyn_Ball33 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:56 pm

colts18 wrote:Is there a player in NBA history who is better at finishing at the rim in traffic than LeBron? I can't think of another player I want to drive to the basket and finish over a 7 footer than LeBron.


Except that Lebron doesn't have to finish over or around big men to anywhere near the degree that players from past eras did, due to 3-pt spacing, stretch 4's/5's, and the defensive 3-second rule.

Jordan was a better finisher than Lebron, and would convert more of his opportunities under equal conditions. Jordan routinely finished over or around 2-4 defenders in the paint, including actual camping shotblocking bigs. He didn't have the luxury of a red carpet to the basket like players today have. Showing isolated clips of Lebron finishing with like one big man defender somewhere near the rim and weakly contesting won't change the fact that the vast majority of his drives see far less defender pressure inside than someone like Jordan. There's a reason even Steph Curry shoots like 60+% inside the last several years - he's not doing that in 1990.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#26 » by RCM88x » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:06 pm

Brooklyn_Ball33 wrote:
colts18 wrote:Is there a player in NBA history who is better at finishing at the rim in traffic than LeBron? I can't think of another player I want to drive to the basket and finish over a 7 footer than LeBron.


Except that Lebron doesn't have to finish over or around big men to anywhere near the degree that players from past eras did, due to 3-pt spacing, stretch 4's/5's, and the defensive 3-second rule.

Jordan was a better finisher than Lebron, and would convert more of his opportunities under equal conditions. Jordan routinely finished over or around 2-4 defenders in the paint, including actual camping shotblocking bigs. He didn't have the luxury of a red carpet to the basket like players today have. Showing isolated clips of Lebron finishing with like one big man defender somewhere near the rim and weakly contesting won't change the fact that the vast majority of his drives see far less defender pressure inside than someone like Jordan. There's a reason even Steph Curry shoots like 60+% inside the last several years - he's not doing that in 1990.


Maybe at his peak. But certainly not over the course of his whole career which is shorter, atleast IMO.

The data we have on Jordan in 97 and 98 (tho 97 is suspect) paints Jordan as a roughly %56 shooter from 0-3 FT. For reference Lebron's worst season, his rookie year, he was at 60%. Next season he was at 73%, and over the next 8-9 seasons worked all the way up to 80%.

We can make all the hypothetical situations up that we want cross-era, but the difference between %60 and %80 is a lot.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#27 » by Brooklyn_Ball33 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:19 pm

RCM88x wrote:
Maybe at his peak. But certainly not over the course of his whole career which is shorter, atleast IMO.

The data we have on Jordan in 97 and 98 (tho 97 is suspect) paints Jordan as a roughly %56 shooter from 0-3 FT. For reference Lebron's worst season, his rookie year, he was at 60%. Next season he was at 73%, and over the next 8-9 seasons worked all the way up to 80%.

We can make all the hypothetical situations up that we want cross-era, but the difference between %60 and %80 is a lot.


If you believe your own line of reasoning (namely, that variations in defensive climate/rules can't possibly affect finishing rates to an extreme degree), then you also have to say that '15-'20 Curry was a better finisher than '96-'98 Jordan. And that, to anyone sensible, is risible.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#28 » by Jordan Syndrome » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:32 pm

Brooklyn_Ball33 wrote:If you believe your own line of reasoning (namely, that variations in defensive climate/rules can't possibly affect finishing rates to an extreme degree), then you also have to say that '15-'20 Curry was a better finisher than '96-'98 Jordan. And that, to anyone sensible, is risible.


No it isn't.

1997 Jordan was awful at finishing around the rim. He struggled with his first step and would often settle for mid-range shots rather than attack.

In 1998 Jordan regained some of his special powers and was able to attack a bit more and was finishing better--in part because people were respecting his jumper again--which happened to be a bit inconsistent throughout the year.

1997 and 1998 were the only Prime Jordan years where it felt like he had an exploitable weakness but he was still so great he could prevail.

I think Curry definitely has arguments for a better finisher but I don't side with him. Part of what makes Curry so great at finishing is his shooting. Because players need to close out so fast and guard him so tightly on the perimeter, he only needs an inch to get ahead of the opponent and he has a free lay-up. In terms of actual ability to finish at the rim? I side with Jordan clearly but Curry's skill-set allows him to be one of the best, most effective finishers as a Point Guard as the league has ever seen.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#29 » by Brooklyn_Ball33 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:59 pm

Jordan Syndrome wrote:No it isn't.

1997 Jordan was awful at finishing around the rim. He struggled with his first step and would often settle for mid-range shots rather than attack.

In 1998 Jordan regained some of his special powers and was able to attack a bit more and was finishing better--in part because people were respecting his jumper again--which happened to be a bit inconsistent throughout the year.

1997 and 1998 were the only Prime Jordan years where it felt like he had an exploitable weakness but he was still so great he could prevail.

I think Curry definitely has arguments for a better finisher but I don't side with him. Part of what makes Curry so great at finishing is his shooting. Because players need to close out so fast and guard him so tightly on the perimeter, he only needs an inch to get ahead of the opponent and he has a free lay-up. In terms of actual ability to finish at the rim? I side with Jordan clearly but Curry's skill-set allows him to be one of the best, most effective finishers as a Point Guard as the league has ever seen.


'97 Jordan's first step was the quickest of any of his second three-peat years (due to him shedding 8-10 pounds before the season), so you're wrong there. And him "settling" for midrange shots (which he didn't really do, but for argument's sake I'll grant it) wouldn't affect his finishing PERCENTAGE at/near the rim, only the number of attempts he had inside.

Again, anyone who thinks that Twink Curry is shooting 60-65% inside in, say, 1990 is deluded. Sorry. There's a reason why you've seen an explosion of high scoring short guards (6'-6'3") the last several years, and it's not because of "talent."
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#30 » by RCM88x » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:06 pm

Brooklyn_Ball33 wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
Maybe at his peak. But certainly not over the course of his whole career which is shorter, atleast IMO.

The data we have on Jordan in 97 and 98 (tho 97 is suspect) paints Jordan as a roughly %56 shooter from 0-3 FT. For reference Lebron's worst season, his rookie year, he was at 60%. Next season he was at 73%, and over the next 8-9 seasons worked all the way up to 80%.

We can make all the hypothetical situations up that we want cross-era, but the difference between %60 and %80 is a lot.


If you believe your own line of reasoning (namely, that variations in defensive climate/rules can't possibly affect finishing rates to an extreme degree), then you also have to say that '15-'20 Curry was a better finisher than '96-'98 Jordan. And that, to anyone sensible, is risible.


He might have been compared to 97, 98 Jordan. But probably not peak Jordan, Curry's peaked around 70% which is very good but Jordan was probably around there in his prime, likely in a tougher environment so I'd give him an edge and the benefit of the doubt. Would I give him the edge over a guy in the 76-78 range (assuming he was around 70), probably not.

That being said, Curry is probably one of the best finishing guards of all time. He uses the glass probably better than anyone in the game currently and has absolutely elite handles, better than Jordan certainly better than Jordan ever did. I don't think him being in the high 60s and breaking 70 is some indictment of the current era, he's an elite player an ATG talent. Someone like Dion Waiters shooting 70% at the rim would be.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#31 » by MyUniBroDavis » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:06 pm

Curry has a great touch but his high effeciency at the rim is also because of the oppertunities he takes vs others, he picks his spots. Hes one of the best finishing guards in the league id say though, esp his floater game

Like i dont think anyone thinks he has a better touch around the rim than kyrie but hes obv more effecient

On jordan, i didnt watch him a crazy amount but its always seemed jordans touch around the rim was absurd and his ability to finish over through and around contact was legit otherworldly
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#32 » by 70sFan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:15 pm

Brooklyn_Ball33 wrote:Again, anyone who thinks that Twink Curry is shooting 60-65% inside in, say, 1990 is deluded. Sorry. There's a reason why you've seen an explosion of high scoring short guards (6'-6'3") the last several years, and it's not because of "talent."

Although I agree with your point (it is eaiser to finish inside than it used to be for guards), I can bring up someone Stockton who was older and less athletic than Curry in 1997 and 1998, yet he posted comparable FG% at the rim.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#33 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:24 pm

Had KD been mentioned yet? He’s surprisingly efficient at/near the rim (or maybe it’s not so surprising). He doesn’t have quite the same volume as some others, but he has a handful of seasons at 80% from 0-3 feet.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#34 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:52 pm

Gregoire wrote:In halfcourt? Prime Jordan, prime Shaq.


Yup. Not saying he isn't a great finisher. I think he may be the GOAT as far as transition goes, but not in the half court.
PockyCandy wrote:Is Ball's shot any more ugly than Curry's? Curry just seems to launch it towards the basket like an 8 year old.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#35 » by kendogg » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:47 am

Mainly centers here, with a few super beefy leaping forwards like Bron mixed in. Only guard I would consider would be Jordan but as good of a leaper as he was, he just can't compete with the strength of these guys in terms of consistent ability to finish strong, and volume of shots made inside 3 feet.

Wilt, Shaq, Barkley, Dwight Howard, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Giannis, Amare Stoudemire, Alonzo Mourning, Dominique Wilkins, Scottie Pippen, Dr. J

honorable mention to cleanup crew that aren't mega scorers like Dennis Rodman, Darryl Dawkins and Ben Wallace.

This list isn't in order, though I would put Wilt and Shaq 1 and 2 for sure. LeBron might make the top 5 maybe, hard to compare centers and forwards. I would put LeBron first for forwards, maybe tied for first with Barkley (it's pretty close between them)
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#36 » by kendogg » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:20 am

Oh I forgot Artis Gilmore, Connie Hawkins, Walt Bellamy
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#37 » by NO-KG-AI » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:27 am

I think Jordan is better at slithering past contact and getting a better look, but I dunno if anyone can mess with LeBron when finishing through contact and hard fouls, outside of Shaq.


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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#38 » by Brooklyn_Ball33 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:06 am

RCM88x wrote:
He might have been compared to 97, 98 Jordan. But probably not peak Jordan, Curry's peaked around 70% which is very good but Jordan was probably around there in his prime, likely in a tougher environment so I'd give him an edge and the benefit of the doubt. Would I give him the edge over a guy in the 76-78 range (assuming he was around 70), probably not.


(Emphasis mine) :lol: :lol:

That being said, Curry is probably one of the best finishing guards of all time. He uses the glass probably better than anyone in the game currently and has absolutely elite handles, better than Jordan certainly better than Jordan ever did. I don't think him being in the high 60s and breaking 70 is some indictment of the current era, he's an elite player an ATG talent. Someone like Dion Waiters shooting 70% at the rim would be.


Because he plays today in the videogame numbers era. Curry is "one of the best finishing guards of all time" for the same reason that Russell Westbrook averaged a triple double for 3 years, for the same reason that Harden had a 37/8 season, for the same reason that Isiah Thomas averaged 30 ppg, for the same reason that like 11 players this past postseason had more 50+ point playoff games than Kobe/Dirk (hyperbole but the point stands), for the same reason that Lebron somehow magically has a 10 year prime with little dip in his numbers into his mid-30's, for the same reason that a limited player like Kawhi was averaging like 36 ppg until the Finals last year. People really believe that what they are seeing is real, but it isn't. Take '20 Lebron and put him in the 2003 or 1998 or 1993 NBA and he doesn't put up the numbers he just did.
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#39 » by henshao » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:13 am

There is an argument about the "red carpet to the rim" today. Where are today's Mark Eatons, Mutumbos, Olajuwons, Ewings?
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Re: Who is a better finisher than LeBron? 

Post#40 » by Sign5 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:52 am




Wasn't too shabby at just under 6'5.

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