No-more-rings wrote:So i’m curious to how much Chris Paul’s habitual playoff injuries play a role in his ranking to you.
Are you really? Because....
No-more-rings wrote:This crap has gotten so ridiculous when it comes to him.
Seems like you're already quite entrenched in this viewpoint and have no intention at all to entertain another.
As to how it plays into my ranking, I'll reveal that I have several gauging or ball-parking formulas and tools I've created to, well.....ball-park
players [not that it's exactly how I order/rank them]. They each valuate things slightly different, but they all take into account accumulated
production and efficiency above replacement level [and some even place a numeric value on finals appearances, titles, etc]. So regular season time AND playoff time missed (either games directly missed due to injury, or theoretical playoff games that never occurred [due to injury preventing advancement]) is sort of baked right into the pie.
Yet every ball-parking formula I've made places Paul comfortably inside the top 25 (if not on the fringes of the top 20). And considering his impact profile is also superb, it does seem empirically like we're near the place where he should be getting serious consideration.
That said, you're right, he has missed some games at key points (2018 is the most notable, imo). otoh, you lambaste him for playing somewhat below his usual standard because he was playing while hampered by injury. But isn't Chris Paul playing at 80% better than Chris Paul not playing at all?
I note that he's missed a grand total of 6 playoff games in 15 seasons; he played in 109/115 (94.8% of all his team's ps games).
As an example, Steph Curry has missed 12 playoff games in 11 seasons; he played in 112/124 (90.3% of all his team's ps games). Sure is fortunate they occurred on a team that was able to continue winning and advance even without him in most instances. If someone wanted to scrutinize his durability with the same harsh(ish) angle you've outlined Paul's, it might look like this:
'12: missed most of year to injury, no playoffs for him (they were 13-13 when he played even limited minutes, 10-30 without him).
'16: missed 6 playoff games, though all in early rounds (luckily team able to advance without him). Lost in finals, Curry having a garbage series (many speculating it was injury-related).
'18: missed 6 playoff games, though all in early rounds; luckily team strong enough to win first round 4-1 without him AND take game 1 of the WCSF without him.
'20: injured, missing entire year; no playoffs for him.
That's the relevant injury time he's accumulated so far, in a career that spans four fewer seasons than Paul.
In terms of the regular season, Curry has missed 187 rs games in 11 years. Paul has missed 184 rs games in 15 years.
We could also talk about Kawhi Leonard, who has missed a lot of relevant time already: he's missed 188 rs games in 9 years. He's also missed 11 playoff games so far.
I speculate on potential missed time [and/or playing at <100%] in the playoffs in '19, if he'd not had the luxury to take 22 games off [and coast] during the rs because his team was capable of nabbing the #2 seed with or without him.
Or perhaps Durant, too???...
'15: Misses most of year to injury, so no playoffs for Thunder.
'17: Misses 20 games in rs, but his team nabs the #1 seed rather easily all the same. Misses 2 playoff games in 1st round [which his team wins anyway].
'19: Misses 10 playoff games at the worst possible time (LATE series's); really, he missed ALL of their last 11 playoff games [playing just 12 minutes in one of them]. His team is able to close out the WCSF in game 6 without him, SWEEP the WCF without him, and then lose the finals 2-4 playing [almost entirely] without him.
'20: Misses ENTIRE season to injury; no playoffs for him.
So in a 13-year career, he's already missed more playoff games than Chris Paul, and the majority of them late
playoffs; also missed the playoffs ENTIRELY [likely due to his absence in the rs] twice
Counting '20, Durant has now missed ~191 rs games [estimating 72 games in Covid-shortened '20] in 13 years.
This is not to say that you don't have a solid point regarding Chris Paul, btw. I merely suggest that you apply this criticism equitably to the other players who deserve it. It's not really a distinguishing feature, even among other players receiving traction at this stage......those candidates merely got a little further even without their presence.
I mean, among these four players, Chris Paul has actually missed the FEWEST rs games, and the FEWEST playoff games, despite having played the MOST seasons among them. ALL three of the others have missed time and/or played at <100% during LATE playoff series's, too.
So presumably if Paul's team were able to advance without him and or get high playoff seeding without him, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.....which makes it feel somewhat like Paul [or Curry, or Durant/Kawhi, or all of them] is [are] being graded based on the quality of his supporting cast(s).
Anyway---not so much due to you question as to some other things I've been mulling over---I have reconsidered on the order of my three [who were sort of in a floating order for me anyway]......and I'm going to go Barkley > Stockton > Paul for my three votes.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." -George Carlin