20. Moses MaloneI believe this will be my most controversial choice so far but I'm pretty confident in this pick.
His single season peak was tier 2 on overall for me. I'd put 1982 or 1983 Moses in the same tier as 2004 Garnett, even though I'd rate Garnett slightly higher. One of the things going for Moses though, his 3 season peak from 1980-81 to 1982-83 is definitely at the top level among the available names. He does not come short in peak, extended peak, prime and extended prime for me. His career resume is also massive.
He was one of the most skilled bigs on offense. His name rarely comes up among the best low post scorers but he literally had every move in his book and he was at least pretty good on some and great or best on most. Look at the players he thought; Hakeem Olajuwon and Charles Barkley. Also he was at least as good as old man Duncan from mid range.
The arguments against him usually go such as this;
- "He wouldn't be that good in the modern times which utilize PnR far more."
Portability is very important, yes. But, TBH, this is like saying Oscar Robertson did not shoot enough threes to me. Don't see the point of penalizing a player for a play style that was not there in his time.
Also, one of the things that gets easily overlooked while thinking about Moses' portability is that he's quite possibly the greatest foul drawing big. That would make wonders in any era. I don't have the exact numbers right now because BBRef made their play index service paid but I know that Moses Malone before fell out of his prime made young Hakeem Olajuwon fouled out in majority of their h2h games. I wrote the exact numbers in the past on the forum, if I find, I'll edit this part.
- "He was a negative impact on defense."
This is flat out wrong and it's not about some preference unlike the previous point. If Moses Malone was a negative impact on defense, then how did the Sixers improved on defense after losing their best defender in order to get Moses?
1982 Sixers; 7th in DRtg with -3.0 rDRtg
1983 Sixers; 5th in DRtg with -3.8 rDRtg
The thing about his defense was, he was inconsistent. He had bad defensive seasons and good defensive seasons, in the end both sides would cancel out each other and I'd put down Moses Malone as an average defender. But I never get the point of talking about him as if he was Nowitzki who got way more traction than him so far.
- "He was not an impact player."
This is also one of the wrong assumptions about him. I think I watched enough games of him to get the sense of a very positive impact player.
Also there was a Dipper 13 thread at the time, showing on/off Rtg numbers for the '80s Sixers. I'm looking for that, couldn't find it so far. If anyone has the link, it'd be appreciated.
Edit; Found it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZxRM9p2dFil5w6s21VEB4HnQZJymEY8_2vej-jREuUo/edit#gid=459687126Just look at the numbers he had in '83 and '85 in Philly. (I tend to consider 1984 of Moses as something like 2005 for Bryant, a down year but also an outlier.)
The only aspect I'd hold against him is his passing. He was not a black hole, he was a decent facilitator. Though his passing lacked in some sense and you wouldn't see him those cutting passes to a guard under the basket. That type of stuff was the only major gap in his game for me.
His skillset was great, his scoring volume was great, he had the proper impact on offense, he's among one of the greatest rebounders. We usually overlook rebounding, the neutral aspect of the game, in this offense and defense evaluations. His defensive inconsistencies and passing issues are there to be addressed surely but, his great qualities are enough for me to put him on 14th spot.
Note: I have been voting for Malone since the #12 thread for the #14 spot.
21. Charles BarkleyI think we're getting to the part, long prime duration and overall longevity are luxuries to have at the same time.
The player pool I have for this spot;
Barkley, Wade, Curry, Durant, Pettit (and maybe Ewing but probably not)
As I stated many times before, peak, average prime quality, prime duration, overall longevity, intangibles and career resume are my criteria.
We can beat a dead horse about peak, but I'd rate Barkley at the top for average prime quality and prime duration. His intangibles were quite problematic but it's not enough to force one of the other 4 ahead of him.
I think Barkley's quality / average prime level are underrated.
I don't like making a case based BBRef profile pages but I want to highlight consistency (bar 1992) from 1988 to 1993.
[I'll use very old Eff in there too because I think unweighted data is also important.]
Regular season;
26.5 pts 11.7 reb 4.1 ast 1.6 stl 0.9 blk 3.3 tov on .587 efg .642 ts
31.9 eff per game (40.9 eff per 100), 27.3 per, 0.254 ws/48, 7.3 obpm
https://i.imgur.com/cwRfYKp.pngJust look at this. This is insane consistency. Especially on offense. His defensive performance in these seasons were average. Not bad. Actually, I'd go on a limb and would say Barkley was slightly positive impact in 1993 Phoenix Suns where he did not have to create and carry an offense as hard as he did in Philadelphia.
His unweighted eff data is also very consistent.
From 1988 to 1993, his eff per game; 32.5, 32.7, 31.7, 30.8 and 31.8
From 1988 to 1993, his eff per 100; 41.1, 40.7, 40.4, 41.5 and 40.7
These are for his +/- data in Philadelphia;
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1344019https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZxRM9p2dFil5w6s21VEB4HnQZJymEY8_2vej-jREuUo/edit#gid=1421792540I'm never one to use MVP as the best player award. However, in Barkley's case I think the results he got should be mentioned because 1990 and 1993 were among the top competitions for the award.
In 1990, he got the most 1st place votes when Jordan and Magic were still in their MVP competition seasons. (What I mean is, something like James in 2009-2013 time frame and James after 2013) Barkley arguably should've won the award considering he was denied by hate.
In 1993, it was Jordan and Olajuwon.
I'm not saying he got the MVP and he should be way up. What I mean will be in italics after.
Jordan, Magic and Olajuwon made the top 10 in this project. And Barkley came really really close to them. Even in Retro PotY project which had postseasons under consideration as well, Olajuwon and Barkley were neck on neck. (Olajuwon 0.652 vs. Barkley 0.570 share)
One way to go from there; Barkley was better in 1990 and Olajuwon was not that better in 1994 compared to 1993. I'm not saying this as Barkley was better than Olajuwon.
Barkley's prime level was insane. He kept it up with peak/near peak Jordan (and Magic/Olajuwon) better than Curry and Durant kept it up with James.Barkley was also more durable than Curry and Durant, and his postseason resilience was significantly better. Wade's postseason resilience was on par with Barkley but Barkley has him beat in prime duration and overall longevity.
22. Bob PettitI initially thought about this spot between Wade, Durant, Curry (then Ewing, Paul and Nash). Wade was coming ahead. Then remembered Pettit's existence and I think the more modern names ain't beating him for me.
