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Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:01 am
by LA Bird
How would you rank the top 10 seasons combined between Durant and Harden? And if possible, explain your order.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:19 am
by No-more-rings
20 Harden
19 Harden
18 Harden
14 Durant
13 Durant
17 Durant
18 Durant
16 Durant
17 Harden
15 Harden
I don’t rank 19 KD due to the injuries. Probably not the ranking most would want to see. Thing is, KD’s scoring pre-GSW wasn’t really any better than Harden’s the past 3 years and that’s the part of his game that’s so heralded.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:26 am
by Dutchball97
No-more-rings wrote:20 Harden
19 Harden
18 Harden
14 Durant
13 Durant
17 Durant
18 Durant
16 Durant
17 Harden
15 Harden
I don’t rank 19 KD due to the injuries. Probably not the ranking most would want to see. Thing is, KD’s scoring pre-GSW wasn’t really any better than Harden’s the past 3 years and that’s the part of his game that’s so heralded.
Are you not considering the play-offs? Because 2012 KD not being there just seems off. 2017 KD not being head and shoulders above everything else is strange to me as well.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:20 am
by Odinn21
I think this really puts Durant not having a complete season in OKC into perspective.
2012- Very nice season.
2013- Similar to 2012 in terms of individual performance. Better regular season and worse postseason for the team.
2014- One of the best offensive and scoring seasons ever. But postseason was a huge let down.
2015- Injury season.
2016- Great regular season once again. The Thunder took the 73W Warriors to a game 7, but Westbrook performed better than Durant in the playoffs.
I guess it goes like 2012/2013 > 2014/2016/2010 > 2011 > 2015 for Durant in OKC.
I'll leave 2017 aside for a moment and will continue with 2018 and 2019.
Was Durant better than Harden in 2018 and 2019? I don't think so. Even if he had the quality, he didn't have the durability.
Harden OTOH, has constantly put complete seasons together since 2015.
I guess my list for top 10 seasons between them would look like this;
1. 2019 Harden
2. 2020 Harden
3. 2018 Harden
4. 2012 Durant
5. 2015 Harden
6. 2013 Durant
7. 2017 Durant
8. 2017 Harden
9. 2014 Durant
10. 2010 or 2016 Durant
(5th, 6th, 7th, 8th spots feel pretty interchangeable.)
I'm not entirely sure about that list. I just gave it a shot since you asked. But on overall, I think Harden should come ahead because his seasons were usually more complete even though he himself suffered from some postseason resilience issues.
Lastly, this was helpful because Durant's total career value doesn't match with his quality and this is going to matter in the top 100 project.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:37 pm
by No-more-rings
Dutchball97 wrote:No-more-rings wrote:20 Harden
19 Harden
18 Harden
14 Durant
13 Durant
17 Durant
18 Durant
16 Durant
17 Harden
15 Harden
I don’t rank 19 KD due to the injuries. Probably not the ranking most would want to see. Thing is, KD’s scoring pre-GSW wasn’t really any better than Harden’s the past 3 years and that’s the part of his game that’s so heralded.
Are you not considering the play-offs? Because 2012 KD not being there just seems off. 2017 KD not being head and shoulders above everything else is strange to me as well.
Of course I consider playoffs, but I don’t put a ton of weight into 2017 since he had the best cast of all time and beat up on poor competition. Anyone weighing that run at face value is looking at things wrong.
I’d have no problem if you squeezed 2012 into that list, but in context I don’t think he was a better player at all than he was later on. His scoring was excellent but that’s pretty much it, his lack of playmaking and defense was exposed in a big way in the finals. He was hot shooting the ball all playoffs, but he wasn’t really inherently more impressive than his later OKC years.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:58 pm
by Odinn21
No-more-rings wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:No-more-rings wrote:20 Harden
19 Harden
18 Harden
14 Durant
13 Durant
17 Durant
18 Durant
16 Durant
17 Harden
15 Harden
I don’t rank 19 KD due to the injuries. Probably not the ranking most would want to see. Thing is, KD’s scoring pre-GSW wasn’t really any better than Harden’s the past 3 years and that’s the part of his game that’s so heralded.
Are you not considering the play-offs? Because 2012 KD not being there just seems off. 2017 KD not being head and shoulders above everything else is strange to me as well.
Of course I consider playoffs, but I don’t put a ton of weight into 2017 since he had the best cast of all time and beat up on poor competition. Anyone weighing that run at face value is looking at things wrong.
I’d have no problem if you squeezed 2012 into that list, but in context I don’t think he was a better player at all than he was later on. His scoring was excellent but that’s pretty much it, his lack of playmaking and defense was exposed in a big way in the finals. He was hot shooting the ball all playoffs, but he wasn’t really inherently more impressive than his later OKC years.
Having 2013 Durant in the top 5 and leaving 2012 version out of top 10 entirely doesn't make much sense though.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:40 pm
by feyki
17/19 KD - These three years are on the ATG level, which are a tier above.
19 Harden
20 Harden
14 KD
18 Harden
16 KD,
these five years group are on the mvp level.
17 Harden
13 KD
15 Harden,
these three are close to mvp level.
It has been 11 instead of ten but couldn't seperate 15 Harden from last group.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:02 pm
by ShotCreator
Why would 19 Harden be better than 20?
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:16 am
by LA Bird
Anyone else want to share their ranking of the two? Durant is nearing being voted in for the top 100 project while Harden is nowhere close to getting any traction but the rankings ITT thus far don't have Durant as a far better player.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:30 am
by Whopper_Sr
LA Bird wrote:Anyone else want to share their ranking of the two? Durant is nearing being voted in for the top 100 project while Harden is nowhere close to getting any traction but the rankings ITT thus far don't have Durant as a far better player.
It's tricky to rank because there are no standout seasons between them. It's like ranking based on who sucked less. Discussion around Durant's GSW seasons has been very divisive as well. Personally, I don't rank those seasons above his best OKC campaigns. He had always wilted against good playoff defenses before going to the Warriors and putting up 35 PPG on 65 TS% on a ridiculously stacked team doesn't move the needle all that much.
On the top 100 project: Going in, I had Durant in the top 25 range but not quite top 20. It wouldn't be egregious if he's voted in at #21 but there are several other candidates that should get the nod before him (Paul, Nash, and Curry) so if Durant makes it before those 3, that would be sour for me. I have Harden a couple of spots below Durant. I expect him to finish above Durant in my all time rankings by the time they retire.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:35 am
by freethedevil
No-more-rings wrote:20 Harden
19 Harden
18 Harden
14 Durant
13 Durant
17 Durant
18 Durant
16 Durant
17 Harden
15 Harden
I don’t rank 19 KD due to the injuries. Probably not the ranking most would want to see. Thing is, KD’s scoring pre-GSW wasn’t really any better than Harden’s the past 3 years and that’s the part of his game that’s so heralded.
hwo does 19 get harden put above 14 kd when kd had the better rs carry job, and both choked against good d in the playoffs? Not to mention KD was the slightly better defender.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:36 am
by freethedevil
Whopper_Sr wrote:LA Bird wrote:Anyone else want to share their ranking of the two? Durant is nearing being voted in for the top 100 project while Harden is nowhere close to getting any traction but the rankings ITT thus far don't have Durant as a far better player.
It's tricky to rank because there are no standout seasons between them. It's like ranking based on who sucked less.
I'd say 2020 Harden is a pretty clear standout. Good defense, great creation, great scoring, held it up against a dominat ass team and defense.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:37 am
by freethedevil
Odinn21 wrote:No-more-rings wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:
Are you not considering the play-offs? Because 2012 KD not being there just seems off. 2017 KD not being head and shoulders above everything else is strange to me as well.
Of course I consider playoffs, but I don’t put a ton of weight into 2017 since he had the best cast of all time and beat up on poor competition. Anyone weighing that run at face value is looking at things wrong.
I’d have no problem if you squeezed 2012 into that list, but in context I don’t think he was a better player at all than he was later on. His scoring was excellent but that’s pretty much it, his lack of playmaking and defense was exposed in a big way in the finals. He was hot shooting the ball all playoffs, but he wasn’t really inherently more impressive than his later OKC years.
Having 2013 Durant in the top 5 and leaving 2012 version out of top 10 entirely doesn't make much sense though.
Meh, his load was pretty light in 2012. Not hard to see it as a somehwat btter, one way version of 14 kawhi.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:53 am
by MyUniBroDavis
freethedevil wrote:Whopper_Sr wrote:LA Bird wrote:Anyone else want to share their ranking of the two? Durant is nearing being voted in for the top 100 project while Harden is nowhere close to getting any traction but the rankings ITT thus far don't have Durant as a far better player.
It's tricky to rank because there are no standout seasons between them. It's like ranking based on who sucked less.
I'd say 2020 Harden is a pretty clear standout. Good defense, great creation, great scoring, held it up against a dominat ass team and defense.
I mean you have to remember the lakers werent setting out to stop harden or lower his effeciency or forfe him into bad shots, more so than make sure if he forces out a pass that the possession would break down.
Once the rockets werent hot from three their offense completely collapsed, and by game the second half of game 3 the rockets offense was figured out pretty much. Idk if you can blame harden for the systems failings though
durant had some wilding years tho lol, 2017 was freaking insane
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:30 am
by Dutchball97
freethedevil wrote:Odinn21 wrote:No-more-rings wrote:Of course I consider playoffs, but I don’t put a ton of weight into 2017 since he had the best cast of all time and beat up on poor competition. Anyone weighing that run at face value is looking at things wrong.
I’d have no problem if you squeezed 2012 into that list, but in context I don’t think he was a better player at all than he was later on. His scoring was excellent but that’s pretty much it, his lack of playmaking and defense was exposed in a big way in the finals. He was hot shooting the ball all playoffs, but he wasn’t really inherently more impressive than his later OKC years.
Having 2013 Durant in the top 5 and leaving 2012 version out of top 10 entirely doesn't make much sense though.
Meh, his load was pretty light in 2012. Not hard to see it as a somehwat btter, one way version of 14 kawhi.
What? How? Huh?
Sorry but this is insane. Point at anything to prove this because I wouldn't be able to think of 1 single reason why KD's load was "pretty light". A 23 year old carrying a team of other young guys to the finals and you're calling him a one way 2014 Kawhi?
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:31 pm
by Whopper_Sr
freethedevil wrote:Whopper_Sr wrote:LA Bird wrote:Anyone else want to share their ranking of the two? Durant is nearing being voted in for the top 100 project while Harden is nowhere close to getting any traction but the rankings ITT thus far don't have Durant as a far better player.
It's tricky to rank because there are no standout seasons between them. It's like ranking based on who sucked less.
I'd say 2020 Harden is a pretty clear standout. Good defense, great creation, great scoring, held it up against a dominat ass team and defense.
The same can be attributed to his 18 and 19 seasons though. Do you knock him heavily for the post Paul injury collapse in the 2018 WCF and failing to overcome the Warriors after Durant went down in 2019? I still see the passive tendencies on offense late in games that has haunted him for the last few years. I hope to see him approach the game in different ways now that MDA is gone but I'm afraid he'll continue to play the same way.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:58 pm
by No-more-rings
freethedevil wrote:No-more-rings wrote:20 Harden
19 Harden
18 Harden
14 Durant
13 Durant
17 Durant
18 Durant
16 Durant
17 Harden
15 Harden
I don’t rank 19 KD due to the injuries. Probably not the ranking most would want to see. Thing is, KD’s scoring pre-GSW wasn’t really any better than Harden’s the past 3 years and that’s the part of his game that’s so heralded.
hwo does 19 get harden put above 14 kd when kd had the better rs carry job, and both choked against good d in the playoffs? Not to mention KD was the slightly better defender.
Well apparently you forget about Kd’s own playoff struggles in 2014. He was shut down whenever Tony Allen was on him agaisnt Memphis, underwhelming series for him overall. He was also mediocre against the Spurs. He was arguably not the best player on his team those playoffs.
I don’t see why KD should win regular season. Harden’s 19 and 20 seasons were at least as good. He was creating more offense than KD with his passing.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:16 pm
by freethedevil
Whopper_Sr wrote:freethedevil wrote:Whopper_Sr wrote:
It's tricky to rank because there are no standout seasons between them. It's like ranking based on who sucked less.
I'd say 2020 Harden is a pretty clear standout. Good defense, great creation, great scoring, held it up against a dominat ass team and defense.
The same can be attributed to his 18 and 19 seasons though. Do you knock him heavily for the post Paul injury collapse in the 2018 WCF and failing to overcome the Warriors after Durant went down in 2019?
thy can't? He was bad against the 18 warriors and him being good agianst the 11th ranked playoff defense and 11th ranked reuglar season defense isn't worth jack **** imo.
Also defense. I still see the passive tendencies on offense late in games that has haunted him for the last few years. I hope to see him approach the game in different ways now that MDA is gone but I'm afraid he'll continue to play the same way.
What tendecies showed up in 2020?
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:18 pm
by freethedevil
No-more-rings wrote:freethedevil wrote:No-more-rings wrote:20 Harden
19 Harden
18 Harden
14 Durant
13 Durant
17 Durant
18 Durant
16 Durant
17 Harden
15 Harden
I don’t rank 19 KD due to the injuries. Probably not the ranking most would want to see. Thing is, KD’s scoring pre-GSW wasn’t really any better than Harden’s the past 3 years and that’s the part of his game that’s so heralded.
hwo does 19 get harden put above 14 kd when kd had the better rs carry job, and both choked against good d in the playoffs? Not to mention KD was the slightly better defender.
Well apparently you forget about Kd’s own playoff struggles in 2014. He was shut down whenever Tony Allen was on him agaisnt Memphis, underwhelming series for him overall. He was also mediocre against the Spurs. He was arguably not the best player on his team those playoffs.
I don’t see why KD should win regular season. Harden’s 19 and 20 seasons were at least as good. He was creating more offense than KD with his passing.
I'm gonna need some explanation for how either 18 or 19 were comaprable regular seasons to KD getting his team to play 60 win basketball - westbrook.
Kd created just fine in the rs.
Are you saying u think kd was worse int he playoffs than kd was? I'm not saying ur wrong persay, but i'd like to hear the case.
Also a case for 14 westbrook over 14 kd in the playoffs.
Re: Rank the top 10 seasons between Durant and Harden
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:22 pm
by freethedevil
Dutchball97 wrote:freethedevil wrote:Odinn21 wrote:Having 2013 Durant in the top 5 and leaving 2012 version out of top 10 entirely doesn't make much sense though.
Meh, his load was pretty light in 2012. Not hard to see it as a somehwat btter, one way version of 14 kawhi.
What? How? Huh?
Sorry but this is insane. Point at anything to prove this because I wouldn't be able to think of 1 single reason why KD's load was "pretty light".
A 23 year old carrying a team of other young guys to the finals and you're calling him a one way 2014 Kawhi?
Lol @carrying as if KD wasn't on lower playoff usage than just about the entirety of curry's prime.
Kd did not "carry ****" just because you go by name rep and scoring. In the following playoffs KD was asked to do normal superstar stuff and proceeded to see his effiency plumemt with his volume not going up. Then he did it again, and again, and again.
I dont know how kd being 23 matters when 24-28 KD was pathetic in the playoffs.
As for "One way 14 kawhi" given that he was only scoring with limited screation and did jack-all defensively, that's a perfectly fair way to describe his season.
Fyi Kawhi "carrried" his team to one of the most dominant playoff runs of all time