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Offense only, who is the better player?

It's mostly a matter of prerefence, but I have Magic in this one. He's the best playmaker in NBA history and the ultimate missmatch on the basketball court. There is no way to guard the offense run by him.

70sFan wrote:It's mostly a matter of prerefence, but I have Magic in this one. He's the best playmaker in NBA history and the ultimate missmatch on the basketball court. There is no way to guard the offense run by him.

It is interesting to me you are so high on Kareem in large part because of his resiliency as a volume scorer yet LeBron blows Magic out of the water as a volume scorer.

I feel like Lebron probably peaked higher, but Magic was more consistent from year to year in his prime. If we look ignore longevity and just look at who’s better in a vacuum i’d say Magic.

Jordan Syndrome wrote:

70sFan wrote:It's mostly a matter of prerefence, but I have Magic in this one. He's the best playmaker in NBA history and the ultimate missmatch on the basketball court. There is no way to guard the offense run by him.

It is interesting to me you are so high on Kareem in large part because of his resiliency as a volume scorer yet LeBron blows Magic out of the water as a volume scorer.

Tbf brons resleincy as a colume scorer in the past years matches kareem, but magics resliency is also quite top tier as an ovefall offensive player

Its harder to judge playmakers based of boxx scores though imo

Jordan Syndrome wrote:

70sFan wrote:It's mostly a matter of prerefence, but I have Magic in this one. He's the best playmaker in NBA history and the ultimate missmatch on the basketball court. There is no way to guard the offense run by him.

It is interesting to me you are so high on Kareem in large part because of his resiliency as a volume scorer yet LeBron blows Magic out of the water as a volume scorer.

I'm extremely high on Kareem because he was arguably the best scorer ever while being DPOY candidate, but I'd never take Kareem over Magic only on offense.

I don't think that individual scoring is the most important part of offense, creation and overall resiliance is more important and Magic is the best playmaker ever who couldn't be contained by any type of defense. You can't double him, you can't defend him straight, you can't stop him from doing his things. He's more natural floor general than LeBron and he doesn't need as much time to adjust as James sometimes does.

70sFan wrote:

Jordan Syndrome wrote:

70sFan wrote:It's mostly a matter of prerefence, but I have Magic in this one. He's the best playmaker in NBA history and the ultimate missmatch on the basketball court. There is no way to guard the offense run by him.

It is interesting to me you are so high on Kareem in large part because of his resiliency as a volume scorer yet LeBron blows Magic out of the water as a volume scorer.

I'm extremely high on Kareem because he was arguably the best scorer ever while being DPOY candidate, but I'd never take Kareem over Magic only on offense.

I don't think that individual scoring is the most important part of offense, creation and overall resiliance is more important and Magic is the best playmaker ever who couldn't be contained by any type of defense. You can't double him, you can't defend him straight, you can't stop him from doing his things. He's more natural floor general than LeBron and he doesn't need as much time to adjust as James sometimes does.

The idea that there's no way to defend Magic seems like hyperbole. I don't know how you could even prove this, especially given all the advances in modern defensive schemes.

Flip a coin?

Matt15 wrote:Offense only, who is the better player?

I said LeBron. As I was saying in another thread, I think both are in the rare category of being able to get better and better and better offensively as they age, and then Magic got HIV while LeBron got better still.

Basically LeBron from around 2016 onward has been the most unstoppable offensive force we've ever had.

For the record, I do think Magic had a better feel for the game at a younger age, and so up to a point I'd have given Magic the nod over LeBron.

Additionally, I think first 3-peat era Jordan was better than LeBron at the same age. Then Jordan got worse and LeBron got better.

LeBron's scoring advantage over Magic is greater than Magic's superior passing. I think Magic's biggest advantage in passing is in running the fast break.

DQuinn1575 wrote:LeBron's scoring advantage over Magic is greater than Magic's superior passing. I think Magic's biggest advantage in passing is in running the fast break.

LeBron is also an all-time great transition player. The biggest gap between them is, as you said, scoring.

I agree with Doctor MJ, LeBron figured something out during the 2014 and 2015 post-seasons on what to do offensively. Since then he has been essentially unstoppable in the post-season.

I think this sort of comparison comes down to the age you compare them at. I think Magic was probably better up until about the age of 30 and then LeBron became slightly better due to both his athleticism and bbiq continuing to grow. I don't think Magic could have done the 2018 carry job for instance or engineered the 3-1 comeback(which factors in defense to some degree) but I think my point is understood.

uberhikari wrote:

70sFan wrote:

Jordan Syndrome wrote:
It is interesting to me you are so high on Kareem in large part because of his resiliency as a volume scorer yet LeBron blows Magic out of the water as a volume scorer.

I'm extremely high on Kareem because he was arguably the best scorer ever while being DPOY candidate, but I'd never take Kareem over Magic only on offense.

I don't think that individual scoring is the most important part of offense, creation and overall resiliance is more important and Magic is the best playmaker ever who couldn't be contained by any type of defense. You can't double him, you can't defend him straight, you can't stop him from doing his things. He's more natural floor general than LeBron and he doesn't need as much time to adjust as James sometimes does.

The idea that there's no way to defend Magic seems like hyperbole. I don't know how you could even prove this, especially given all the advances in modern defensive schemes.

How could you guard Magic then?

Doctor MJ wrote:

Matt15 wrote:Offense only, who is the better player?

I said LeBron. As I was saying in another thread, I think both are in the rare category of being able to get better and better and better offensively as they age, and then Magic got HIV while LeBron got better still.

Basically LeBron from around 2016 onward has been the most unstoppable offensive force we've ever had.

For the record, I do think Magic had a better feel for the game at a younger age, and so up to a point I'd have given Magic the nod over LeBron.

Additionally, I think first 3-peat era Jordan was better than LeBron at the same age. Then Jordan got worse and LeBron got better.

Yet, in 2016, LBJ was very much stopped in many games by an older Iguodala. Kawhi has done excellent jobs on LBJ during every regular season meeting, and they haven't met much in the post-season.

I feel like Harden is arguably a better offensive player than LBJ if you value unstoppable scoring. In terms of running an offense, I think it's unquestionably Magic here.

I'm still going Lebron.

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I think this sort of comparison comes down to the age you compare them at. I think Magic was probably better up until about the age of 30 and then LeBron became slightly better due to both his athleticism and bbiq continuing to grow. I don't think Magic could have done the 2018 carry job for instance or engineered the 3-1 comeback(which factors in defense to some degree) but I think my point is understood.

Lebron’s athleticism grew past age 30?

No-more-rings wrote:

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I think this sort of comparison comes down to the age you compare them at. I think Magic was probably better up until about the age of 30 and then LeBron became slightly better due to both his athleticism and bbiq continuing to grow. I don't think Magic could have done the 2018 carry job for instance or engineered the 3-1 comeback(which factors in defense to some degree) but I think my point is understood.

Lebron’s athleticism grew past age 30?

That's not what I said. I said I'd take him over Magic offensively past 30 due to his combo of athleticism and his bb iq improving as well as his jumper. Even at 30+ LeBron's athleticism is significantly above Magic's.

euroleague wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:

Matt15 wrote:Offense only, who is the better player?

I said LeBron. As I was saying in another thread, I think both are in the rare category of being able to get better and better and better offensively as they age, and then Magic got HIV while LeBron got better still.

Basically LeBron from around 2016 onward has been the most unstoppable offensive force we've ever had.

For the record, I do think Magic had a better feel for the game at a younger age, and so up to a point I'd have given Magic the nod over LeBron.

Additionally, I think first 3-peat era Jordan was better than LeBron at the same age. Then Jordan got worse and LeBron got better.

Yet, in 2016, LBJ was very much stopped in many games by an older Iguodala. Kawhi has done excellent jobs on LBJ during every regular season meeting, and they haven't met much in the post-season.

I feel like Harden is arguably a better offensive player than LBJ if you value unstoppable scoring. In terms of running an offense, I think it's unquestionably Magic here.

2016 was when LeBron led the Cavs in a comeback to win the championship over the 73-9 Warriors. Yes, he very much struggled in that series, but he turned a corner, and really I haven't seen him struggle seriously since. Oh he'll have an off game, but when the series is on the line, he's money now in a way he wasn't when he was younger.

Re: Harden. I need to see him lead the kind of offenses I've seen are now possible (Nash, Curry, LeBron). I'm not saying he can't do it, but he hasn't done it, has struggled noticeably at times in the playoffs, and has worn out all of my sympathy when it comes to the whole "weak supporting cast" argument.

Doctor MJ wrote:

euroleague wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:
I said LeBron. As I was saying in another thread, I think both are in the rare category of being able to get better and better and better offensively as they age, and then Magic got HIV while LeBron got better still.

Basically LeBron from around 2016 onward has been the most unstoppable offensive force we've ever had.

For the record, I do think Magic had a better feel for the game at a younger age, and so up to a point I'd have given Magic the nod over LeBron.

Additionally, I think first 3-peat era Jordan was better than LeBron at the same age. Then Jordan got worse and LeBron got better.

Yet, in 2016, LBJ was very much stopped in many games by an older Iguodala. Kawhi has done excellent jobs on LBJ during every regular season meeting, and they haven't met much in the post-season.

I feel like Harden is arguably a better offensive player than LBJ if you value unstoppable scoring. In terms of running an offense, I think it's unquestionably Magic here.

2016 was when LeBron led the Cavs in a comeback to win the championship over the 73-9 Warriors. Yes, he very much struggled in that series, but he turned a corner, and really I haven't seen him struggle seriously since. Oh he'll have an off game, but when the series is on the line, he's money now in a way he wasn't when he was younger.

Re: Harden. I need to see him lead the kind of offenses I've seen are now possible (Nash, Curry, LeBron). I'm not saying he can't do it, but he hasn't done it, has struggled noticeably at times in the playoffs, and has worn out all of my sympathy when it comes to the whole "weak supporting cast" argument.

Bit of a long response here:

I saw LBJ struggle in 2018, against the Pacers - the Cavs only won that series because of the double on Oladipo, who had no help. The Raptors were also crushing the cavs, before they choked like crazy. LBJ did manage to beat the Celtics in 7 games though, although they were without Kyrie or Hayward....and LBU didn't play defense. Then he got swept by the Warriors, although he put up a valiant effort in 1 game... in game 3, the Cavs were within striking distance - but LBJ came up blank against KD. Curry went 3/16, Klay went 4/11, Kevin Love went 20/13/3 with 5 ORB on 66% TS.... but KD just annihalated Lebron.

In 2020, the Lakers dominated as most people expected - AD and LBJ are a forward combo that is basically impossible to defend for the teams they went up against. Both are enormous freaks of nature at their position... and they had very good role-players, with Rondo/Dwight stepping up majorly. Does anyone believe if AD had joined the Bucks in a trade for Khris Middleton and Brook Lopez, the Bucks wouldn't have won the ring with domination on both ends?

Bledsoe vs Rondo
Divencenzo vs Caruso
Giannis vs LBJ
AD vs AD
Wesley Matthews vs Dwight
George Hill vs Kuzma

If you traded Middleton for AD straight up, the Lakers would still have been more talented... if the Bucks added AD, would people crown Giannis the best player in the world after they crushed every other team in the playoffs? Or would that simply be expected?

Lebron averages 34.5-8-10, 65.5TS, including 3 40+ games shooting 58%, 64%, and 71%

He StRUgGlED Vs tHE PaCErS!

Raptors crushing the cavs en route to a 0-4 domination

Celtics - thats literally the only series he did play D in lmao

Broken hand in the finals and starts shooting with his left hand, means he choked

All of this with teams not respecting the cavs shooting so no spacing, and the cavs missing open jump shots

Nani!?


On the lakers and bucks

To try to say the bucks lost because of a talent issue than because of a coaching/tactical issue is a bit odd lol