Ewing with another star and wins two championships

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Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#1 » by migya » Fri Jan 8, 2021 4:21 pm

Championships and accolades mean alot to most people evaluating nba careers, it's just plain and simple. It isn't justified to a large degree in relation to many star players throughout history. Patrick Ewing is ranked somewhere between 30 -40 in ranks I've seen the last five years or so. For those who saw him play they know he was every bit a superstar like Olajuwon, Robinson, Jordan, Pippen and others and deserved to be on the Dream Team.

If Ewing had played most of his career with another star, let's say Clyde Drexler, from 1986 - 1996 at least, and won two championships, he'd be ranked higher alltime. Question is where abouts would he be ranked? Same stats and everything else but win two championships?


As a side note, had Lebron stayed in Cleveland his entire career, like Jordan basically did, Olajuwon, Robinson, Stockton and Malone, Duncan, Nowitzki and Ewing, AND win only one championship, let's say after 2010, his ranking would surely be different. Answer that as well; Where would Lebron be ranked?
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#2 » by 70sFan » Fri Jan 8, 2021 4:42 pm

I think that some people underrate Ewing historically and I agree that he'd be far better 2nd option on offense but I wouldn't have him higher with more rings, unless he played out of mind in these seasons. I think he was overall worse player than Robinson (although this gap is often overstated) so I wouldn't have him higher than 20-25 range.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#3 » by Jordan Syndrome » Fri Jan 8, 2021 4:46 pm

I dont know if Clyde and Ewing get it done.

Clyde's skill-set was routinely exploited in the post-season and his numbers took a significant hit in the post-season. 1993 and 1994 are the only seasons they are legimately close to favorites here.

I don't think Ewing magically winning makes him a better player. I doubt it moves him much on my list--I already have players who haven't won like Malone around the top 20.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#4 » by prolific passer » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:42 pm

The knicks really should have kept Wilkins and Jackson. Maybe move Wilkins at small forward and start Starks at shooting guard.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#5 » by Cavsfansince84 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:50 pm

prolific passer wrote:The knicks really should have kept Wilkins and Jackson. Maybe move Wilkins at small forward and start Starks at shooting guard.


As I recall McDaniel as well. They made some poor roster choices in the early 90's which I think are actually what cost them a title or two.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#6 » by prolific passer » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:59 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
prolific passer wrote:The knicks really should have kept Wilkins and Jackson. Maybe move Wilkins at small forward and start Starks at shooting guard.


As I recall McDaniel as well. They made some poor roster choices in the early 90's which I think are actually what cost them a title or two.

Despite only 51 games and a 4th seed. That 92 team was probably considered the best of the 90s teams due to the depth and health of its top players.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#7 » by Clyde Frazier » Fri Jan 8, 2021 9:49 pm

Knicks definitely win in 94 with a drexler-level player given how close they got without a consistent second option next to ewing. They'd probably have a good chance in 93 too. This also opens up the door for ewing's health to be better later in his career given a lighter workload earlier on. The 97 knicks had a good shot at the title before the suspensions against the heat, and ewing was already in year 12 at that point.

As for rankings, the PC board has given him his due over the last few top 100 projects ranking in the top 30, so maybe a few spots higher. His legacy to the average fan would be a fair amount higher tho. LeBron? I don't know, top 5? He's currently 3rd to me after Jordan + Kareem.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#8 » by therealbig3 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 10:15 pm

I think he peaked a bit lower than Robinson, and Robinson is a top 20-25 player. I’d have Ewing in that range.

One thing I will say is that I think Ewing was better than Barkley. Barkley was a great offensive big with weak defense, and we’ve seen plenty of examples of that prototype really not being a superstar impact player, despite big numbers (Amare and KAT come to mind...Dirk and Jokic I think are/were at least average to above average defensively and also provide a little more on offense too). Ewing is a dominant defender and a really solid offensive big who was forced into more of a volume scoring role than he should have been. In that respect, he’s underrated, because I think most people think Barkley was better based on his MVP season.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#9 » by Kukoc-Lauri » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:23 am

He was missing Mitch Rock Richmond and Chris Mullin hometown kidd. Harper,Richmond,Mullin,Oakley,Ewing. Starks,A.Mason,C.Smith would beat Houston and most likley play game 7 with Bulls basically every year. Starks was kind a like Rozier today. One game 8 threes, dunks or 30 plus points and other nights cold as you can get. But in 94 Hakeem's and Ewing's role players were on same level, Hakeem outplayed him especially in key moments. Ewing beat him in Ncaa, Olajuwon got his revenge in Nba. He was cluth in big moments but in biggest ones he shrunk in a way.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#10 » by migya » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:40 am

Clyde Frazier wrote:Knicks definitely win in 94 with a drexler-level player given how close they got without a consistent second option next to ewing. They'd probably have a good chance in 93 too. This also opens up the door for ewing's health to be better later in his career given a lighter workload earlier on. The 97 knicks had a good shot at the title before the suspensions against the heat, and ewing was already in year 12 at that point.

As for rankings, the PC board has given him his due over the last few top 100 projects ranking in the top 30, so maybe a few spots higher. His legacy to the average fan would be a fair amount higher tho. LeBron? I don't know, top 5? He's currently 3rd to me after Jordan + Kareem.



Looking at the success Drexler had in Portland, especially 1990 - 1992, where he was the only legit star and MVP caller, with Ewing they'd run over almost every team. With Oakley, Mark Jackson and either Gerald Wilkins or McDaniel at SF, that's a team with the right pieces in the right roles. They could've run off their own threepeat, perhaps twice as well. Both Ewing and Drexler would be higher in all-time rankings, I think Ewing about #20.

LeBron would be definitely outside top 5 with only one championship.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#11 » by SelakStreet » Sat Jan 9, 2021 9:35 am

migya wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:Knicks definitely win in 94 with a drexler-level player given how close they got without a consistent second option next to ewing. They'd probably have a good chance in 93 too. This also opens up the door for ewing's health to be better later in his career given a lighter workload earlier on. The 97 knicks had a good shot at the title before the suspensions against the heat, and ewing was already in year 12 at that point.

As for rankings, the PC board has given him his due over the last few top 100 projects ranking in the top 30, so maybe a few spots higher. His legacy to the average fan would be a fair amount higher tho. LeBron? I don't know, top 5? He's currently 3rd to me after Jordan + Kareem.



Looking at the success Drexler had in Portland, especially 1990 - 1992, where he was the only legit star and MVP caller, with Ewing they'd run over almost every team. With Oakley, Mark Jackson and either Gerald Wilkins or McDaniel at SF, that's a team with the right pieces in the right roles. They could've run off their own threepeat, perhaps twice as well. Both Ewing and Drexler would be higher in all-time rankings, I think Ewing about #20.

LeBron would be definitely outside top 5 with only one championship.


But then if we're gonna have Drexler in the same lineup as Patrick Ewing, then one of Gerald Wilkins or Xavier McDaniel will have to go to the bench. In '93, both Wilkins and X-Man were in reserve roles for their respective new teams for Cleveland and Boston respectively, so only one of them will start at SF with Drexler obviously the SG and Starks coming off the bench.

That would mean Rolando Blackman never comes to New York, he either stays in Dallas or goes to another contender besides NY.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#12 » by migya » Sat Jan 9, 2021 10:13 am

SelakStreet wrote:
migya wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:Knicks definitely win in 94 with a drexler-level player given how close they got without a consistent second option next to ewing. They'd probably have a good chance in 93 too. This also opens up the door for ewing's health to be better later in his career given a lighter workload earlier on. The 97 knicks had a good shot at the title before the suspensions against the heat, and ewing was already in year 12 at that point.

As for rankings, the PC board has given him his due over the last few top 100 projects ranking in the top 30, so maybe a few spots higher. His legacy to the average fan would be a fair amount higher tho. LeBron? I don't know, top 5? He's currently 3rd to me after Jordan + Kareem.



Looking at the success Drexler had in Portland, especially 1990 - 1992, where he was the only legit star and MVP caller, with Ewing they'd run over almost every team. With Oakley, Mark Jackson and either Gerald Wilkins or McDaniel at SF, that's a team with the right pieces in the right roles. They could've run off their own threepeat, perhaps twice as well. Both Ewing and Drexler would be higher in all-time rankings, I think Ewing about #20.

LeBron would be definitely outside top 5 with only one championship.


But then if we're gonna have Drexler in the same lineup as Patrick Ewing, then one of Gerald Wilkins or Xavier McDaniel will have to go to the bench. In '93, both Wilkins and X-Man were in reserve roles for their respective new teams for Cleveland and Boston respectively, so only one of them will start at SF with Drexler obviously the SG and Starks coming off the bench.

That would mean Rolando Blackman never comes to New York, he either stays in Dallas or goes to another contender besides NY.



Reckon the Knick faithful would be ok.

I wrote, either Gerald Wilkins or McDaniel. They'd be the SF.

Blackman, old and ring chasing his last couple of years from down the bench, would have to go next door to NewJersey and provide spark of the bench in their run at the title.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#13 » by freethedevil » Sat Jan 9, 2021 4:39 pm

Clyde Frazier wrote:Knicks definitely win in 94 with a drexler-level player given how close they got without a consistent second option next to ewing. They'd probably have a good chance in 93 too. This also opens up the door for ewing's health to be better later in his career given a lighter workload earlier on. The 97 knicks had a good shot at the title before the suspensions against the heat, and ewing was already in year 12 at that point.

As for rankings, the PC board has given him his due over the last few top 100 projects ranking in the top 30, so maybe a few spots higher. His legacy to the average fan would be a fair amount higher tho. LeBron? I don't know, top 5? He's currently 3rd to me after Jordan + Kareem.

Don't forget 92 when they ltook a 67 win team, who had blown out most of the prior playoffs, to 7 off ewing and spare parts.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#14 » by freethedevil » Sat Jan 9, 2021 4:41 pm

prolific passer wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
prolific passer wrote:The knicks really should have kept Wilkins and Jackson. Maybe move Wilkins at small forward and start Starks at shooting guard.


As I recall McDaniel as well. They made some poor roster choices in the early 90's which I think are actually what cost them a title or two.

Despite only 51 games and a 4th seed. That 92 team was probably considered the best of the 90s teams due to the depth and health of its top players.

Well that and what happened in the playoffs.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#15 » by freethedevil » Sat Jan 9, 2021 4:42 pm

70sFan wrote:I think that some people underrate Ewing historically and I agree that he'd be far better 2nd option on offense but I wouldn't have him higher with more rings, unless he played out of mind in these seasons. I think he was overall worse player than Robinson (although this gap is often overstated) so I wouldn't have him higher than 20-25 range.

He was worse in the regular season, but his teams were far more resilent come postseason against much stronger competition, and its not like ewing had extrodinary help...
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#16 » by 70sFan » Sat Jan 9, 2021 5:51 pm

freethedevil wrote:
70sFan wrote:I think that some people underrate Ewing historically and I agree that he'd be far better 2nd option on offense but I wouldn't have him higher with more rings, unless he played out of mind in these seasons. I think he was overall worse player than Robinson (although this gap is often overstated) so I wouldn't have him higher than 20-25 range.

He was worse in the regular season, but his teams were far more resilent come postseason against much stronger competition, and its not like ewing had extrodinary help...

I think I agree actually, Ewing is underrated as a postseason performer. Sometimes he struggled efficiency-wise, but overall he usually hold his own even against top teams.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#17 » by homecourtloss » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:59 am

freethedevil wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:Knicks definitely win in 94 with a drexler-level player given how close they got without a consistent second option next to ewing. They'd probably have a good chance in 93 too. This also opens up the door for ewing's health to be better later in his career given a lighter workload earlier on. The 97 knicks had a good shot at the title before the suspensions against the heat, and ewing was already in year 12 at that point.

As for rankings, the PC board has given him his due over the last few top 100 projects ranking in the top 30, so maybe a few spots higher. His legacy to the average fan would be a fair amount higher tho. LeBron? I don't know, top 5? He's currently 3rd to me after Jordan + Kareem.

Don't forget 92 when they ltook a 67 win team, who had blown out most of the prior playoffs, to 7 off ewing and spare parts.


Not only 7 games, but after 6 games, both teams had scored the same amount of points. Bulls were of course better, but the fact that an offensively untalented team like the Knicks could take the ‘92 Bulls to 7 and ‘93 Bulls to six and really blow game 5 shows would could have been had the Knicks had any decent offensive talent at all.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#18 » by prolific passer » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:36 am

homecourtloss wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:Knicks definitely win in 94 with a drexler-level player given how close they got without a consistent second option next to ewing. They'd probably have a good chance in 93 too. This also opens up the door for ewing's health to be better later in his career given a lighter workload earlier on. The 97 knicks had a good shot at the title before the suspensions against the heat, and ewing was already in year 12 at that point.

As for rankings, the PC board has given him his due over the last few top 100 projects ranking in the top 30, so maybe a few spots higher. His legacy to the average fan would be a fair amount higher tho. LeBron? I don't know, top 5? He's currently 3rd to me after Jordan + Kareem.

Don't forget 92 when they ltook a 67 win team, who had blown out most of the prior playoffs, to 7 off ewing and spare parts.


Not only 7 games, but after 6 games, both teams had scored the same amount of points. Bulls were of course better, but the fact that an offensively untalented team like the Knicks could take the ‘92 Bulls to 7 and ‘93 Bulls to six and really blow game 5 shows would could have been had the Knicks had any decent offensive talent at all.

I wonder how Nique or Manning would have done on the knicks if they signed one of them in 94 offseason. Nique was coming off a 26ppg season so maybe he becomes the #1 guy and Ewing becomes 2 and is able to focus more on defense and rebounding.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#19 » by migya » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pm

70sFan wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
70sFan wrote:I think that some people underrate Ewing historically and I agree that he'd be far better 2nd option on offense but I wouldn't have him higher with more rings, unless he played out of mind in these seasons. I think he was overall worse player than Robinson (although this gap is often overstated) so I wouldn't have him higher than 20-25 range.

He was worse in the regular season, but his teams were far more resilent come postseason against much stronger competition, and its not like ewing had extrodinary help...

I think I agree actually, Ewing is underrated as a postseason performer. Sometimes he struggled efficiency-wise, but overall he usually hold his own even against top teams.



Ewing was always a main player in the playoffs. Those Knicks were well coached by Riley, who knew they weren't built to outscore but to grind and outdefend. Ewing carried that offense year after year and like Robinson and Olajuwon never got any proper help.

Situation is everything and any star that doesn't win championships gets underrated because of that.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#20 » by migya » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:49 pm

prolific passer wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:
freethedevil wrote:Don't forget 92 when they ltook a 67 win team, who had blown out most of the prior playoffs, to 7 off ewing and spare parts.


Not only 7 games, but after 6 games, both teams had scored the same amount of points. Bulls were of course better, but the fact that an offensively untalented team like the Knicks could take the ‘92 Bulls to 7 and ‘93 Bulls to six and really blow game 5 shows would could have been had the Knicks had any decent offensive talent at all.

I wonder how Nique or Manning would have done on the knicks if they signed one of them in 94 offseason. Nique was coming off a 26ppg season so maybe he becomes the #1 guy and Ewing becomes 2 and is able to focus more on defense and rebounding.



With Nique in 1995 they would've been interesting and could have really taken Houston in the finals. Orlando was really good but their defense wasn't great and they had no great wing defender. Drexler v Dominique would have been nice.

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