Ewing with another star and wins two championships

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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#21 » by homecourtloss » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:02 pm

migya wrote:Championships and accolades mean alot to most people evaluating nba careers, it's just plain and simple. It isn't justified to a large degree in relation to many star players throughout history. Patrick Ewing is ranked somewhere between 30 -40 in ranks I've seen the last five years or so. For those who saw him play they know he was every bit a superstar like Olajuwon, Robinson, Jordan, Pippen and others and deserved to be on the Dream Team.

If Ewing had played most of his career with another star, let's say Clyde Drexler, from 1986 - 1996 at least, and won two championships, he'd be ranked higher alltime. Question is where abouts would he be ranked? Same stats and everything else but win two championships?


As a side note, had Lebron stayed in Cleveland his entire career, like Jordan basically did, Olajuwon, Robinson, Stockton and Malone, Duncan, Nowitzki and Ewing, AND win only one championship, let's say after 2010, his ranking would surely be different. Answer that as well; Where would Lebron be ranked?


Could have won one in 1992, 1993, 1994, maybe 1995. Easily could have “hurt” Jordan’s narrative.

1992: took 67 win, 10+ SRS Bulls to 7, series was tied in points after 6 games so no fluke. Not much offensive talent there.

1993: all time great defense, up 2-0 against a Bulls that had coasted during the regular season. There were some bad calls in game 5 vs. the Bulls, a game the Knicks blew because of shoddy FT shooting (20-35) so they can’t blame anybody. Have to say, all time great defense failed to stop the Bulls as Chicago scored well the entire series DESPTE Jordan throwing up a lot of bricks but getting the favor of a ton light contact fouls FTs (11+ FTA a game in a 86 possession per game series). Probably one of Pippen’s greatest series especially game 3 when Jordan went 3-18 and pippen saved the season and later in history, helped Jordan’s legacy. Grant played well offensively as well.

1994: Could have lost to the Bulls if not for a questionable call in game 5. As it was, with better offensive talent, they should have won the title vs. the Rockets, but Ewing had a terrible offensive finals himself. Another star could have helped.

Imagine Ewing were paired with someone like Curry. All of NBA history would be looked at differently and who the GOAT is would be a different discussion for the casuals, the RANNGZZZ crowd, etc.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#22 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:32 am

Give every Ewing team 1984 Bernard King and Ewing might have a whole lot of chaampionships.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#23 » by JordansBulls » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:25 am

Maybe only 1994 and 1999 he has a shot.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#24 » by migya » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:42 am

JordansBulls wrote:Maybe only 1994 and 1999 he has a shot.


That's whet happened in real life the question is if he had another star, like Drexler, for the prime of his career he would have won championships and be ranked higher alltime.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#25 » by migya » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:46 am

SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Give every Ewing team 1984 Bernard King and Ewing might have a whole lot of chaampionships.


It's really a requirement for every championship team; to have at least two stars. Jordan had Pippen, Lebron had Wade and Bosh and then Kyrie and Love, Shaq had Kobe. Olajuwon in 1994 had probably the least talent with him on his championship team.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#26 » by prolific passer » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:48 pm

The Knicks drafted Hubert Davis over Sprewell in 92.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#27 » by jdzimme3 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:55 pm

It would likely raise him a tier to be considered with guys like robinson and Garnett.

If Lebron stayed and had 1 title I think he is parallel with Hakeem and they are both likely underrated in that instance.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#28 » by JordansBulls » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:46 am

migya wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Maybe only 1994 and 1999 he has a shot.


That's whet happened in real life the question is if he had another star, like Drexler, for the prime of his career he would have won championships and be ranked higher alltime.

He would have won in 1994 had he not got outplayed by Hakeem. He was up 3-2 in the finals. Why give someone another star when they got outplayed by another star?
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#29 » by Prokorov » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:12 am

migya wrote:Championships and accolades mean alot to most people evaluating nba careers, it's just plain and simple. It isn't justified to a large degree in relation to many star players throughout history. Patrick Ewing is ranked somewhere between 30 -40 in ranks I've seen the last five years or so. For those who saw him play they know he was every bit a superstar like Olajuwon, Robinson, Jordan, Pippen and others and deserved to be on the Dream Team.

If Ewing had played most of his career with another star, let's say Clyde Drexler, from 1986 - 1996 at least, and won two championships, he'd be ranked higher alltime. Question is where abouts would he be ranked? Same stats and everything else but win two championships?


As a side note, had Lebron stayed in Cleveland his entire career, like Jordan basically did, Olajuwon, Robinson, Stockton and Malone, Duncan, Nowitzki and Ewing, AND win only one championship, let's say after 2010, his ranking would surely be different. Answer that as well; Where would Lebron be ranked?


Ewing is criminally under rated. He was a better player then some of his peers ranked higher. like Malone and Robinson. Hakeem has 2 rings and a win over ewing in the finals, but is also wrong put ahead of Ewing. Ewing had the worst supporting cast of any hall of famer to play in the modern era. He also came closest to taking out Jordan then anyone, but doesnt get credit because they were both in the east and it didnt happen in the finals.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#30 » by migya » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:14 am

JordansBulls wrote:
migya wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:Maybe only 1994 and 1999 he has a shot.


That's whet happened in real life the question is if he had another star, like Drexler, for the prime of his career he would have won championships and be ranked higher alltime.

He would have won in 1994 had he not got outplayed by Hakeem. He was up 3-2 in the finals. Why give someone another star when they got outplayed by another star?



Because they might win with another star.

Jordan had Pippen, Lebron's had two stars on his championship teams, besides Olajuwon in 1994 there pretty much has anyways been two or more stars on championship teams.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#31 » by migya » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:16 am

Prokorov wrote:
migya wrote:Championships and accolades mean alot to most people evaluating nba careers, it's just plain and simple. It isn't justified to a large degree in relation to many star players throughout history. Patrick Ewing is ranked somewhere between 30 -40 in ranks I've seen the last five years or so. For those who saw him play they know he was every bit a superstar like Olajuwon, Robinson, Jordan, Pippen and others and deserved to be on the Dream Team.

If Ewing had played most of his career with another star, let's say Clyde Drexler, from 1986 - 1996 at least, and won two championships, he'd be ranked higher alltime. Question is where abouts would he be ranked? Same stats and everything else but win two championships?


As a side note, had Lebron stayed in Cleveland his entire career, like Jordan basically did, Olajuwon, Robinson, Stockton and Malone, Duncan, Nowitzki and Ewing, AND win only one championship, let's say after 2010, his ranking would surely be different. Answer that as well; Where would Lebron be ranked?


Ewing is criminally under rated. He was a better player then some of his peers ranked higher. like Malone and Robinson. Hakeem has 2 rings and a win over ewing in the finals, but is also wrong put ahead of Ewing. Ewing had the worst supporting cast of any hall of famer to play in the modern era. He also came closest to taking out Jordan then anyone, but doesnt get credit because they were both in the east and it didnt happen in the finals.


Ewing is very underrated but he wasn't better than Robinson and arguably Malone. Olajuwon had arguably a worse supporting cast and Robinson definitely did have worse.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#32 » by Prokorov » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:43 pm

migya wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
migya wrote:Championships and accolades mean alot to most people evaluating nba careers, it's just plain and simple. It isn't justified to a large degree in relation to many star players throughout history. Patrick Ewing is ranked somewhere between 30 -40 in ranks I've seen the last five years or so. For those who saw him play they know he was every bit a superstar like Olajuwon, Robinson, Jordan, Pippen and others and deserved to be on the Dream Team.

If Ewing had played most of his career with another star, let's say Clyde Drexler, from 1986 - 1996 at least, and won two championships, he'd be ranked higher alltime. Question is where abouts would he be ranked? Same stats and everything else but win two championships?


As a side note, had Lebron stayed in Cleveland his entire career, like Jordan basically did, Olajuwon, Robinson, Stockton and Malone, Duncan, Nowitzki and Ewing, AND win only one championship, let's say after 2010, his ranking would surely be different. Answer that as well; Where would Lebron be ranked?


Ewing is criminally under rated. He was a better player then some of his peers ranked higher. like Malone and Robinson. Hakeem has 2 rings and a win over ewing in the finals, but is also wrong put ahead of Ewing. Ewing had the worst supporting cast of any hall of famer to play in the modern era. He also came closest to taking out Jordan then anyone, but doesnt get credit because they were both in the east and it didnt happen in the finals.


Ewing is very underrated but he wasn't better than Robinson and arguably Malone. Olajuwon had arguably a worse supporting cast and Robinson definitely did have worse.


Olojuwon's cast was infintely better. especially on offense. Horry was basically pippen-lite. a 12/5/5 guy who could play 2/3/4 stretch the floor and guard bigs and smalls.

Clyde Drexler wasnt peak but still tail end of his prime and a 22/7/5 player. Thorpe/Maxwell/Smith/Cassell/Ellie where all bigtime shot makers and certainly no worse then Oakley/chuck smith/mason/starks/harper.

But more then anything, Ewing had no one to take offensive pressure off of him and he never had an elite offense creater around him (like malone did). John starks was a chucker and Charles smith was a broken down version of the guy who we saw with the clippers. Hubert davis had some microwave moments but he wasnt a guy anyone feared.

If you swap ewing and hakeem Ewing has 2+ rings and hakeem has none, and maybe no finals appearances to boot.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#33 » by migya » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:23 pm

Prokorov wrote:
migya wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Ewing is criminally under rated. He was a better player then some of his peers ranked higher. like Malone and Robinson. Hakeem has 2 rings and a win over ewing in the finals, but is also wrong put ahead of Ewing. Ewing had the worst supporting cast of any hall of famer to play in the modern era. He also came closest to taking out Jordan then anyone, but doesnt get credit because they were both in the east and it didnt happen in the finals.


Ewing is very underrated but he wasn't better than Robinson and arguably Malone. Olajuwon had arguably a worse supporting cast and Robinson definitely did have worse.


Olojuwon's cast was infintely better. especially on offense. Horry was basically pippen-lite. a 12/5/5 guy who could play 2/3/4 stretch the floor and guard bigs and smalls.

Clyde Drexler wasnt peak but still tail end of his prime and a 22/7/5 player. Thorpe/Maxwell/Smith/Cassell/Ellie where all bigtime shot makers and certainly no worse then Oakley/chuck smith/mason/starks/harper.

But more then anything, Ewing had no one to take offensive pressure off of him and he never had an elite offense creater around him (like malone did). John starks was a chucker and Charles smith was a broken down version of the guy who we saw with the clippers. Hubert davis had some microwave moments but he wasnt a guy anyone feared.

If you swap ewing and hakeem Ewing has 2+ rings and hakeem has none, and maybe no finals appearances to boot.



That's not right. Main point in looking at teams is how their approach and plan is to playing and with the Knicks they played the exact style they were built for, in a defense oriented, grinding style a n a great coach in Riley..

When Drexler got to Houston, he was still good, for two years, but was no star and there were a number guards at that point were better than him. Olajuwon was so good that he made it all work. In 1994 he carried role players that practically disappeared once they left. Neither Kenny Smith or Maxwell would've started on any other team, any other year really. Thorpe was good at cleaning up and scoring near the basket but was no option offensively to create anything. Swap Ewing and Olajuwon and the Rockets get beaten by Phoenix in the 2nd round in 5 games. The Knicks win it all and either Derek Harper or Starks look like much better players. Greg Anthony also is able to get away with gambling and lapses defensively because Olajuwon covered the mistakes of others better.

Horry was a nice, young glue type guy but he did nothing to say that he was better than most good role players. He looked Pippen like in the finals in 1995 but that was short lived and he never developed into the allstar he looked like he was going to be. Anthony Mason was very good at his role and him being able to create offense for others very well by 1995 should've translated to the Knicks being better in 1995 and 1996.

Robinson quite clearly had the least talent on his team, especially depth wise and some of the analysis of seen on here the last few years shows that. Those there Centers did much with quite little and the truth is they were better players by what they managed than a number of players ranked ahead of them alltime.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#34 » by Prokorov » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:41 pm

migya wrote:That's not right. Main point in looking at teams is how their approach and plan is to playing and with the Knicks they played the exact style they were built for, in a defense oriented, grinding style a n a great coach in Riley..


You can play a grind it defensive style without completely sacraficing offense. Horry for instance could lock down on D and provide more spacing, transition and finishing. Same with Drexler.

When Drexler got to Houston, he was still good, for two years, but was no star and there were a number guards at that point were better than him.


if there were a number of guards better then drexler then how many were better then starks?
Robinson quite clearly had the least talent on his team, especially depth wise and some of the analysis of seen on here the last few years shows that. Those there Centers did much with quite little and the truth is they were better players by what they managed than a number of players ranked ahead of them alltime.


Robinson played with a top 10 player all-time.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#35 » by migya » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:59 pm

Prokorov wrote:
migya wrote:That's not right. Main point in looking at teams is how their approach and plan is to playing and with the Knicks they played the exact style they were built for, in a defense oriented, grinding style a n a great coach in Riley..


You can play a grind it defensive style without completely sacraficing offense. Horry for instance could lock down on D and provide more spacing, transition and finishing. Same with Drexler.


Horry wasn't the defender, rebounder or offensive creator that Mason was, he developed the three point shot by his third season but only ever shot from set shots, usually of double teams of Olajuwon, later Shaq and Duncan. He was purely a role player. Charles Smith was no slouch and had a nice jumpshot, defended well.

Riley slowed those Knicks offensively knowing that it'd work better because other teams couldn't play that slower, tough grind out game.


Prokorov wrote:
When Drexler got to Houston, he was still good, for two years, but was no star and there were a number guards at that point were better than him.


if there were a number of guards better then drexler then how many were better then starks?


Yea Drexler was better but Derek Harper was better than Kenny Smith and Horry was PF with Drexler in Houston and Oakley was far better in the PF role, being a much better rebounder and defender.


Prokorov wrote:
Robinson quite clearly had the least talent on his team, especially depth wise and some of the analysis of seen on here the last few years shows that. Those there Centers did much with quite little and the truth is they were better players by what they managed than a number of players ranked ahead of them alltime.


Robinson played with a top 10 player all-time.


Before Duncan got there.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#36 » by Prokorov » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:05 pm

migya wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
migya wrote:That's not right. Main point in looking at teams is how their approach and plan is to playing and with the Knicks they played the exact style they were built for, in a defense oriented, grinding style a n a great coach in Riley..


You can play a grind it defensive style without completely sacraficing offense. Horry for instance could lock down on D and provide more spacing, transition and finishing. Same with Drexler.


Horry wasn't the defender, rebounder or offensive creator that Mason was, he developed the three point shot by his third season but only ever shot from set shots, usually of double teams of Olajuwon, later Shaq and Duncan. He was purely a role player. Charles Smith was no slouch and had a nice jumpshot, defended well.

Riley slowed those Knicks offensively knowing that it'd work better because other teams couldn't play that slower, tough grind out game.


Prokorov wrote:
When Drexler got to Houston, he was still good, for two years, but was no star and there were a number guards at that point were better than him.


if there were a number of guards better then drexler then how many were better then starks?


Yea Drexler was better but Derek Harper was better than Kenny Smith and Horry was PF with Drexler in Houston and Oakley was far better in the PF role, being a much better rebounder and defender.


Prokorov wrote:
Robinson quite clearly had the least talent on his team, especially depth wise and some of the analysis of seen on here the last few years shows that. Those there Centers did much with quite little and the truth is they were better players by what they managed than a number of players ranked ahead of them alltime.


Robinson played with a top 10 player all-time.


Before Duncan got there.


Before duncan got there robinson won nothing.

To brush off drexler better then starks is kind of weak
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#37 » by prolific passer » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:38 pm

What should the knicks have done around Ewing when he was at his best from 88-97?
Who should they have kept, traded, signed, and drafted to help him win a title?
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#38 » by migya » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:40 am

prolific passer wrote:What should the knicks have done around Ewing when he was at his best from 88-97?
Who should they have kept, traded, signed, and drafted to help him win a title?


New York was a desirable detonation, they could have gotten someone that was a difference maker. They should have kept Mark Jackson and instead with in 1992 they could have been that little bit better, with having McDaniel, Gerald Wilkins and a new and improving Mason and Starks. As someone said earlier in this thread I think, if they had gotten either Dominique or Manning in 1994 off-season that could have been it.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#39 » by prolific passer » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:47 am

migya wrote:
prolific passer wrote:What should the knicks have done around Ewing when he was at his best from 88-97?
Who should they have kept, traded, signed, and drafted to help him win a title?


New York was a desirable detonation, they could have gotten someone that was a difference maker. They should have kept Mark Jackson and instead with in 1992 they could have been that little bit better, with having McDaniel, Gerald Wilkins and a new and improving Mason and Starks. As someone said earlier in this thread I think, if they had gotten either Dominique or Manning in 1994 off-season that could have been it.

Should have drafted Sprewell instead of Hubert Davis too. Sprewell was at his best and happiest during his time in New York. Him and Ewing could have been a good inside/outside tandem.

I remember when Magic talked about coming out of retirement to play for the knicks but Buss said no to that.
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Re: Ewing with another star and wins two championships 

Post#40 » by migya » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:12 am

prolific passer wrote:
migya wrote:
prolific passer wrote:What should the knicks have done around Ewing when he was at his best from 88-97?
Who should they have kept, traded, signed, and drafted to help him win a title?


New York was a desirable detonation, they could have gotten someone that was a difference maker. They should have kept Mark Jackson and instead with in 1992 they could have been that little bit better, with having McDaniel, Gerald Wilkins and a new and improving Mason and Starks. As someone said earlier in this thread I think, if they had gotten either Dominique or Manning in 1994 off-season that could have been it.

Should have drafted Sprewell instead of Hubert Davis too. Sprewell was at his best and happiest during his time in New York. Him and Ewing could have been a good inside/outside tandem.

I remember when Magic talked about coming out of retirement to play for the knicks but Buss said no to that.



Sprewell wasn't the player he became and Hubert Davis was a great shooter that seemed underused in New York

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