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Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 am
by Joey Wheeler
dcstanley wrote:Joey Wheeler wrote:Lebron and AD over Harden/Durant/Kyrie every day of the week. Lakers duo has a GOAT level offensive player and a GOAT level defensive player and they compliment each other well on both ends.
For the Nets trio, Durant is imo the GOAT scorer along with Jordan, but that's the only GOAT level skill they possess (and overall Lebron is superior as an offensive player) and the other 2 guys are primarily scorers too. You have 3 big time scorers, you can't maximize all 3. None of the 3 are able to anchor a defense + none of the 3 is the off ball juggernaut on offense AD is.
Offensively the Nets might be a bit better than the Lakers (remains to be seen) just on sheer talent alone, but there's no way they can remotely approach an AD-anchored Lakers defense. If the Nets trade Kyrie for someone who can anchor their defense, we might have to consider their chances against the Lakers but as currently constructed no way...
I know KD is supremely skilled but how exactly is he a better scorer or offensive player than Harden?
He's the most versatile scorer of all-time, deadly from every area of the court and his combination of size and quickness he can get a high % look any time he wants, bigs are too slow to guard him and he can just shoot over smaller players. Harden's scoring ability doesn't really hold a candle in the playoffs.
That's another big issue for the Nets actually; to maximize their offense, it needs to be built around KD's outlier scoring ability, with Harden ISOs as the primary form of attack only when KD is on the bench. But I'm not sure Harden will take a backseat after all these years of doing whatever he wanted at Houston...
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:42 am
by kayess
IG2 wrote:It's so weird to see him play like this. His shot selection has been annoyingly selective for most of his career. Especially jumpers. Comes out in year 18 as an unabashed chucker lol
THIS WAS ALL HE WAS ALL ALONG, A **** KOBE STAN
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:44 am
by Joey Wheeler
MyUniBroDavis wrote:Joey Wheeler wrote:Lebron and AD over Harden/Durant/Kyrie every day of the week. Lakers duo has a GOAT level offensive player and a GOAT level defensive player and they compliment each other well on both ends.
For the Nets trio, Durant is imo the GOAT scorer along with Jordan, but that's the only GOAT level skill they possess (and overall Lebron is superior as an offensive player) and the other 2 guys are primarily scorers too. You have 3 big time scorers, you can't maximize all 3. None of the 3 are able to anchor a defense + none of the 3 is the off ball juggernaut on offense AD is.
Offensively the Nets might be a bit better than the Lakers (remains to be seen) just on sheer talent alone, but there's no way they can remotely approach an AD-anchored Lakers defense. If the Nets trade Kyrie for someone who can anchor their defense, we might have to consider their chances against the Lakers but as currently constructed no way...
One of the big things is AD is the BEST defensive big to go against them (unless you consider Giannis a big then it’s both of them).
The only thing is you prolly cut harrell and gasol out of the rotation a bit which kinda sucks, but AD should absolutely destroy them, they just flat out don’t have a big unless they play deandre (and if they play deandre we can play Marc)
AD should win FMVP if we play them
AD should have won FMVP last year already, he probably won't again because Lebron is bound to have better offensive numbers again, as the Nets's lack of rim protection will allow him to feast too. But yes, he'll utterly dominate the Nets on both ends.
The Nets need to get rid of Kyrie for a defensive anchor to be in business. As currently constructed, they'll struggle to get out of the East, let alone challenge the Lakers.
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 am
by MyUniBroDavis
Joey Wheeler wrote:MyUniBroDavis wrote:Joey Wheeler wrote:Lebron and AD over Harden/Durant/Kyrie every day of the week. Lakers duo has a GOAT level offensive player and a GOAT level defensive player and they compliment each other well on both ends.
For the Nets trio, Durant is imo the GOAT scorer along with Jordan, but that's the only GOAT level skill they possess (and overall Lebron is superior as an offensive player) and the other 2 guys are primarily scorers too. You have 3 big time scorers, you can't maximize all 3. None of the 3 are able to anchor a defense + none of the 3 is the off ball juggernaut on offense AD is.
Offensively the Nets might be a bit better than the Lakers (remains to be seen) just on sheer talent alone, but there's no way they can remotely approach an AD-anchored Lakers defense. If the Nets trade Kyrie for someone who can anchor their defense, we might have to consider their chances against the Lakers but as currently constructed no way...
One of the big things is AD is the BEST defensive big to go against them (unless you consider Giannis a big then it’s both of them).
The only thing is you prolly cut harrell and gasol out of the rotation a bit which kinda sucks, but AD should absolutely destroy them, they just flat out don’t have a big unless they play deandre (and if they play deandre we can play Marc)
AD should win FMVP if we play them
AD should have won FMVP last year already, he probably won't again because Lebron is bound to have better offensive numbers again, as the Nets's lack of rim protection will allow him to feast too. But yes, he'll utterly dominate the Nets on both ends.
The Nets need to get rid of Kyrie for a defensive anchor to be in business. As currently constructed, they'll struggle to get out of the East, let alone challenge the Lakers.
Idk if he deserved it last year, it was close and he started out better but bron finished it off so well, and AD wasn’t great on offense after he got hurt
I think the nets are def gonna be a challenge if certain things happen, more than any team last year for sure. They’re gonna probably play mismatch iso basketball forcing switches, we’re better equipped to deal with that than the other teams in the nba but they’re gonna be the best at that ever too. They’ll prolly be a better offensive team so it’ll come down to are they able to make it tough for us on offense by being smart and tactical?
We saw Vogel out coach stotts, d antoni, Malone, and go even ish with spo, so it’ll be interesting, but the lakers have good odds
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:08 am
by Heej
dcstanley wrote:Joey Wheeler wrote:Lebron and AD over Harden/Durant/Kyrie every day of the week. Lakers duo has a GOAT level offensive player and a GOAT level defensive player and they compliment each other well on both ends.
For the Nets trio, Durant is imo the GOAT scorer along with Jordan, but that's the only GOAT level skill they possess (and overall Lebron is superior as an offensive player) and the other 2 guys are primarily scorers too. You have 3 big time scorers, you can't maximize all 3. None of the 3 are able to anchor a defense + none of the 3 is the off ball juggernaut on offense AD is.
Offensively the Nets might be a bit better than the Lakers (remains to be seen) just on sheer talent alone, but there's no way they can remotely approach an AD-anchored Lakers defense. If the Nets trade Kyrie for someone who can anchor their defense, we might have to consider their chances against the Lakers but as currently constructed no way...
I know KD is supremely skilled but how exactly is he a better scorer or offensive player than Harden?
I guess KD is a more resilient scorer in the playoffs. I know Harden has had his fair share of poor playoff performances but as far as 1v1 scoring goes any sane person takes Harden 10 times out of 10 without any question. The thing is that KD has more of an off-ball game to fall back on than Harden does. But as far as iso scoring Harden has KD beat imo
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:11 am
by freethedevil
kayess wrote:What if KD just channels KG and anchors the defense, plus plays offball and just shoots 3s/attacks off the catch from a Harden/Irving pass?
I think the average case is yes, they'll get destroyed by the Bucks (or even the Sixers), but even when thinking about scary their absolute ceiling is - Harden's (and to a lesser extent's, Irving's) lesser value off-ball is going to be a problem.
Idk what to think tbh. Heej is right that this'll look great on the resume, but it'd probably be empty calories TBH LMAO
So demosntrate like far higher IQ then he has at like any point in his career? Is there any precedent for that kinda leap?
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:22 am
by toodles23
Lebron's now shooting 38.6% from three on a career high 6.4 attempts and 2.5 makes, with probably the most difficult attempts of his career. As far as I can tell his mechanics haven't changed from last year, he just has more confidence and more aggressive shot selection. Maybe the cleaner shooting backgrounds with no fans are also helping?
Hoping we get to see a 2021 version of his Bradley Center heat check game this year
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:28 am
by freethedevil
toodles23 wrote:Lebron's now shooting 38.6% from three on a career high 6.4 attempts and 2.5 makes, with probably the most difficult attempts of his career. As far as I can tell his mechanics haven't changed from last year, he just has more confidence and more aggressive shot selection. Maybe the cleaner shooting backgrounds with no fans are also helping?
Hoping we get to see a 2021 version of his Bradley Center heat check game this year
Uhh. Wouldn't his attempts have been harder in 2019 or 2020?
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:41 am
by Joey Wheeler
Heej wrote:dcstanley wrote:Joey Wheeler wrote:Lebron and AD over Harden/Durant/Kyrie every day of the week. Lakers duo has a GOAT level offensive player and a GOAT level defensive player and they compliment each other well on both ends.
For the Nets trio, Durant is imo the GOAT scorer along with Jordan, but that's the only GOAT level skill they possess (and overall Lebron is superior as an offensive player) and the other 2 guys are primarily scorers too. You have 3 big time scorers, you can't maximize all 3. None of the 3 are able to anchor a defense + none of the 3 is the off ball juggernaut on offense AD is.
Offensively the Nets might be a bit better than the Lakers (remains to be seen) just on sheer talent alone, but there's no way they can remotely approach an AD-anchored Lakers defense. If the Nets trade Kyrie for someone who can anchor their defense, we might have to consider their chances against the Lakers but as currently constructed no way...
I know KD is supremely skilled but how exactly is he a better scorer or offensive player than Harden?
I guess KD is a more resilient scorer in the playoffs. I know Harden has had his fair share of poor playoff performances but as far as 1v1 scoring goes any sane person takes Harden 10 times out of 10 without any question. The thing is that KD has more of an off-ball game to fall back on than Harden does. But as far as iso scoring Harden has KD beat imo
No, KD is the best 1-on-1 scorer in history, primarily due to his unmatched ability to generate easy looks. His combination of size, skill and shooting ability make it incredibly hard to effect pressure/contest his shot, he can get a good shot off whenever he wants. Harden otoh has to work far harder for his scoring and make much tougher shots and it generally doesn't hold up in the playoffs under increased defensive pressure.
If I need an isolation bucket there's no one I'd rather have the ball than Durant; I feel very confident that he'll generate a high quality look considering he's deadly from everywhere on the court and his release can't be contested.
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:55 am
by frica
Is Durant's 1 on 1 scoring really better than Dirk?
I'm fairly sure Durant's PS numbers have been less resilient than Dirk.
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:21 pm
by Slava
MisterHibachi wrote:Man, Harrell isn't that bad a defender...
He's improved even since early in the season. I no longer shudder about him being completely lost in the defensive scheme when he is left in space. He might still get put in a spin cycle when put in a pick and roll against a Lillard caliber guard but playing for Vogel and on this team might do his career a ton of good on the defensive end.
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:49 pm
by Heej
Joey Wheeler wrote:Heej wrote:dcstanley wrote:I know KD is supremely skilled but how exactly is he a better scorer or offensive player than Harden?
I guess KD is a more resilient scorer in the playoffs. I know Harden has had his fair share of poor playoff performances but as far as 1v1 scoring goes any sane person takes Harden 10 times out of 10 without any question. The thing is that KD has more of an off-ball game to fall back on than Harden does. But as far as iso scoring Harden has KD beat imo
No, KD is the best 1-on-1 scorer in history, primarily due to his unmatched ability to generate easy looks. His combination of size, skill and shooting ability make it incredibly hard to effect pressure/contest his shot, he can get a good shot off whenever he wants. Harden otoh has to work far harder for his scoring and make much tougher shots and it generally doesn't hold up in the playoffs under increased defensive pressure.
If I need an isolation bucket there's no one I'd rather have the ball than Durant; I feel very confident that he'll generate a high quality look considering he's deadly from everywhere on the court and his release can't be contested.
Man, that's cute and all except Hardens already proven he can generate an even easier and higher percentage look at will vs single coverage. That's why teams contort themselves into all kinds of ridiculous defensive formations vs him while being content to let KD go 1v1 with some help. KD isos into a midrange, Harden isos into 3s, layups, and free throws. KDs a better scorer because of the other parts of his game
not his iso game (which is still deadly, but no James Harden).
Also Harden completely cooked the Lakers (who were one of the best defensive teams in the league) last season in the playoffs and they decided to randomly double him at the 3 because he was embarrassing everyone that tried to single cover him outside of AD. Call me when a team is treating KD like that lol. Even in his MVP season when he played Memphis he didn't deal with people arbitrarily doubling without even having a screener nearby.
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:49 pm
by Greatness
The Harden to Brooklyn news didn't really do much for me, nowhere near the inevitable feeling after the KD to Warriors news. Part of it is that Harden creates some diminishing returns, part of it is that as good as they can be offensively (still worse than that Warriors team due to synergy) they should be at best league average defensively. Harden and Kyrie as your starting backcourt will mean easy pick and rolls and iso blow by's at the point of attack. Not to mention they have little to no rim protection once that happens.
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:30 pm
by IG2
I find it pathetic that KD doesn't feel confident against LeBron unless he's on a team with at least another superstar (Harden/Curry) and All Star (Kyrie/Klay). But hey, no 4th star ala Draymond Green, so he's getting better, I guess. To me this is a terrible move for a league that was seemingly moving away from super teams. The last 2 championship winners were far from super teams. We are right back at it now. Yes, Nets have flaws, but no team with that much offensive firepower isn't at least cruising to the Finals. The EC is pointless now.
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:36 pm
by Gooner
IG2 wrote:I find it pathetic that KD doesn't feel confident against LeBron unless he's on a team with at least another superstar (Harden/Curry) and All Star (Kyrie/Klay). But hey, no 4th star ala Draymond Green, so he's getting better, I guess. To me this is a terrible move for a league that was seemingly moving away from super teams. The last 2 championship winners were far from super teams. We are right back at it now. Yes, Nets have flaws, but no team with that much offensive firepower isn't at least cruising to the Finals. The EC is pointless now.
Double standards, if anyone started this stack the deck era it's LeBald James.
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:42 pm
by Homer38
Gooner wrote:IG2 wrote:I find it pathetic that KD doesn't feel confident against LeBron unless he's on a team with at least another superstar (Harden/Curry) and All Star (Kyrie/Klay). But hey, no 4th star ala Draymond Green, so he's getting better, I guess. To me this is a terrible move for a league that was seemingly moving away from super teams. The last 2 championship winners were far from super teams. We are right back at it now. Yes, Nets have flaws, but no team with that much offensive firepower isn't at least cruising to the Finals. The EC is pointless now.
Double standards, if anyone started this stack the deck era it's LeBald James.
No it was the big 3 in Boston just 2 years before....But nothing at the level of KD in 2016...
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:46 pm
by MartinToVaught
Gooner wrote:IG2 wrote:I find it pathetic that KD doesn't feel confident against LeBron unless he's on a team with at least another superstar (Harden/Curry) and All Star (Kyrie/Klay). But hey, no 4th star ala Draymond Green, so he's getting better, I guess. To me this is a terrible move for a league that was seemingly moving away from super teams. The last 2 championship winners were far from super teams. We are right back at it now. Yes, Nets have flaws, but no team with that much offensive firepower isn't at least cruising to the Finals. The EC is pointless now.
Double standards, if anyone started this stack the deck era it's LeBald James.
Yeah, it's all LeBron's fault for time-travelling back to the 1960s and convincing Wilt, Baylor and West to team up!
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:47 pm
by homecourtloss
Gooner wrote:IG2 wrote:I find it pathetic that KD doesn't feel confident against LeBron unless he's on a team with at least another superstar (Harden/Curry) and All Star (Kyrie/Klay). But hey, no 4th star ala Draymond Green, so he's getting better, I guess. To me this is a terrible move for a league that was seemingly moving away from super teams. The last 2 championship winners were far from super teams. We are right back at it now. Yes, Nets have flaws, but no team with that much offensive firepower isn't at least cruising to the Finals. The EC is pointless now.
Double standards, if anyone started this stack the deck era it's LeBald James.
Look who’s back
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:07 pm
by Heej
homecourtloss wrote:Gooner wrote:IG2 wrote:I find it pathetic that KD doesn't feel confident against LeBron unless he's on a team with at least another superstar (Harden/Curry) and All Star (Kyrie/Klay). But hey, no 4th star ala Draymond Green, so he's getting better, I guess. To me this is a terrible move for a league that was seemingly moving away from super teams. The last 2 championship winners were far from super teams. We are right back at it now. Yes, Nets have flaws, but no team with that much offensive firepower isn't at least cruising to the Finals. The EC is pointless now.
Double standards, if anyone started this stack the deck era it's LeBald James.
Look who’s back
LMAO, What an entrance. Goober flying in off the top rope. Gotta love it
Re: The Lebron Thread | 2021 (Pt. 2)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:13 pm
by Homer38
He is a classic front runner.....