Post#3 » by trex_8063 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:02 pm
1st vote: Pau Gasol
Another decent star with outstanding longevity, Pau entered the league at age 21 and was immediately probably a top 30 player in the league (basically borderline All-Star level player): averaged 17.6/8.9/2.7 @ +4.6% rTS and 2.1 bpg, though admittedly for a terrible team, and kinda turnover-prone as a rookie. tbf, it wasn't much of a cast around him: Shane Battier is a very underrated player (though perhaps cast too high when the 2nd [or arguably 1st??] best player on a team); after that it was Jason Williams and Stromile Swift as 3rd and 4th, and mostly trash behind that.
So overall....pretty good coming out party for the rookie.
In '06 he averaged 20.4/8.9/4.6 @ +1.9% rTS with 1.9 bpg for a team that won 49 games and had the 5th-rated +3.74 SRS (this was with Shane Battier, Mike Miller, an OLD Eddie Jones, and a bunch of spare parts, btw). They were swept in the first round, though due to a brutal WC [and even more brutal SW division that contained the defending champs and the eventual WC champ] and the stupid playoff structure of the time they drew the 60-win Mavericks team (you know, the one that would win the conference). Pau did struggle a bit in the series.
If you somehow blend these two seasons, you get an idea of what "average" P.Gasol was in Memphis.
But in '08 Kobe was barking at the Lakers to either make them a contender or he'd walk, so they bring in Pau......and he almost immediately meshes as the perfect Dick Grayson to Kobe's Bruce Wayne, making the Lakers an instant contender.
Pau would have likely his three BEST seasons as a Laker [from '09-'11], collectively averaging 18.7/10.3/3.4 on approximately +5(ish)% rTS, good turnover economy, and decent defense during those years. They'd win two titles, with Pau playing pretty good in both runs ('10 in particular: 19.6 ppg @ +5.6% rTS, 11.1 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2.1 bpg, and only 1.9 topg.....that's a really nice line).
He'd continue to have relevant seasons all the way out to his 17th season (age 37), ultimately sitting 30th in NBA/ABA history in career rs WS (and currently tied for 40th all-time [w/ Clyde Drexler] in ps WS). He's actually ahead of Chauncey Billups in rs WS [and WS love Chauncey], though is behind Chauncey in ps WS.
He lacks All-NBA accolades more because his prime overlaps that of Tim Duncan [#5 on this list], Kevin Garnett [#11 on this list], and Dirk Nowitzki [#15 on this list]---as well as much of Lebron James [#1 on this list] and other sporadically excellent forwards such as Paul Pierce, Elton Brand, Shawn Marion, and Chris Bosh----than from him lacking All-NBA chops.
I've little doubt that if his competition was John Havlicek, Billy Cunningham, Truck Robinson, Gus Johnson, Bob Love, and Elvin Hayes......Pau would have a few more than he does [likely including at least one 1st Team nod].
At any rate, I think he at least deserves serious consideration at this stage.
2nd vote: Paul Pierce
Will try to write more later, honestly.
In short, he's a nice two-way star who was capable of carrying some awful casts up to mediocrity, and transitioned nicely into a role as the 2nd-best on a title-winner. Nice longevity overall as well.
3rd vote: Gary Payton
Was about 7-10 places higher on him until just very recently. But he's certainly big in the picture by this point [maybe even overdue??].
Criticized for low shooting efficiency [fair enough point], but he's also got a fantastic turnover economy. Better, for instance, than guys like Jason Kidd, Tim Hardaway, Allen Iverson, Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, and John Stockton to name a handful; not much worse than Chris Paul, actually.
Obviously strong defensive acumen early in his prime. Was at the forefront of perhaps the 3rd-best team of the 90s [solid decade as far as competition; giving 1st and 2nd to the Bulls and Jazz, btw]. WS/48 is NOT in love with him [due to aforementioned pedestrian shooting efficiency], yet he's STILL 28th all-time in rs WS.
Best 7-year RAPM added [utilizing Elgee's AuPM as proxy for '94-'96] is right in the immediate vicinity of guys like Russell Westbrook, Arvydas Sabonis, Hakeem Olajuwon, Andre Iguodala, James Harden, Baron Davis, and Penny Hardaway. So pretty good company for this stage of the list, especially noting Payton played more minutes than any of them in their respective samples: nearly 39 mpg on average in those 7 years, while missing just ONE game total [not a typo].
Also on my immediate radar are Dwight Howard, Robert Parish, Kevin McHale, Ray Allen, and Chauncey Billups.
After them come players like Iverson, Manu, Lanier, Hayes. AD might slip in somewhere around that range for me. Then I might be willing to consider Cousy [I mention since he's had support recently].
"The fact that a proposition is absurd has never hindered those who wish to believe it." -Edward Rutherfurd
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
