Kevin Durant or Lebron James?

[Gooner]

at The Heat being a superteam in 2014

If he thinks that the heat in 2014 or even 2013 come playoffs time was a superteam, he needs to think the same for the thunder in 2012

Nah, he'll say the Thunder sucked because they were 22 and 23 years old even though they ran through the West. You'll find that Gooner will bend a lot of things in order to make James look bad.

I don't need to bend anything, I just state pure facts. People say Miami was older, what were the Spurs then? Wade wasn't a super star? Nobody on San Antonio was either by those standards. San Antonio had 4 hall of famers? So did Miami. LBJ gets more excuses than any superstar in history.

[Homer38]

If he thinks that the heat in 2014 or even 2013 come playoffs time was a superteam, he needs to think the same for the thunder in 2012

Nah, he'll say the Thunder sucked because they were 22 and 23 years old even though they ran through the West. You'll find that Gooner will bend a lot of things in order to make James look bad.

I don't need to bend anything, I just state pure facts. People say Miami was older, what were the Spurs then? Wade wasn't a super star? Nobody on San Antonio was either by those standards. San Antonio had 4 hall of famers? So did Miami. LBJ gets more excuses than any superstar in history.

I said 4 HOF who were still playing at a high level in their entire playoffs run .... Of course you haven't read the whole sentence but it's not a surprise.....Wade wasn't a superstar in 2013 and 2014.

LeBron needs no excuse .... 10 finals, 4 titles, 4 FMVP, 4 MVP and probably the future all-time scorer in NBA history in the regular season (he has been in the playoffs since 2017) and others record like the first team all-nba,etc ... problem it's you who is not able to recognize that he is an all-time great (top 3 players ever at least)

[Gooner]

Nah, he'll say the Thunder sucked because they were 22 and 23 years old even though they ran through the West. You'll find that Gooner will bend a lot of things in order to make James look bad.

I don't need to bend anything, I just state pure facts. People say Miami was older, what were the Spurs then? Wade wasn't a super star? Nobody on San Antonio was either by those standards. San Antonio had 4 hall of famers? So did Miami. LBJ gets more excuses than any superstar in history.

I said 4 HOF who were still playing at a high level in their entire playoffs run .... Of course you haven't read the whole sentence but it's not a surprise.....Wade wasn't a superstar in 2013 and 2014.

LeBron needs no excuse .... 10 finals, 4 titles, 4 FMVP, 4 MVP and probably the future all-time scorer in NBA history in the regular season (he has been in the playoffs since 2017) and others record like the first team all-nba,etc ... problem it's you who is not able to recognize that he is an all-time great (top 3 players ever at least)

If Wade wasn't a superstar, then Parker wasn't either, nor was Ginobili. KD has a lot of accomplishments aswell, and yet people don't give him credit. When LBJ wins, he gets all the credit, but when he loses he gets non of the blame. KD can't win, his victories don't mean anything, and if he loses it's an embarrassment.

[feyki]

KD proved in the finals that he was better. I don't know what LeBron did better than him at that point.

Better passer, better defender, better leader, better ball-handler, better rebounder, better P&R player... can I stop now?

I'm curious about the defence. Durant had improved a lot, defensively; with the GSW. And Lebron did not stand his 2016 Finals defensive impact. Not just 2016 Finals, he was much worse than 08-13 James, too.

I'd think Lebron was better, offensively. His rebounding and specially playmaking gap is too big. But also don't think there were much difference between them.

Thread is getting out of the way, btw.

[Homer38]

I don't need to bend anything, I just state pure facts. People say Miami was older, what were the Spurs then? Wade wasn't a super star? Nobody on San Antonio was either by those standards. San Antonio had 4 hall of famers? So did Miami. LBJ gets more excuses than any superstar in history.

I said 4 HOF who were still playing at a high level in their entire playoffs run .... Of course you haven't read the whole sentence but it's not a surprise.....Wade wasn't a superstar in 2013 and 2014.

LeBron needs no excuse .... 10 finals, 4 titles, 4 FMVP, 4 MVP and probably the future all-time scorer in NBA history in the regular season (he has been in the playoffs since 2017) and others record like the first team all-nba,etc ... problem it's you who is not able to recognize that he is an all-time great (top 3 players ever at least)

If Wade wasn't a superstar, then Parker wasn't either, nor was Ginobili. KD has a lot of accomplishments aswell, and yet people don't give him credit. When LBJ wins, he gets all the credit, but when he loses he gets non of the blame. KD can't win, his victories don't mean anything, and if he loses it's an embarrassment.

Tony Parker was on the second all-nba team in 2014 (same thing for 2013) and Wade was on the 3rd all-nba team in 2013 but not in 2014 ... Old Tim Duncan was in the first all-nba team in 2013 and he was still playing at a high level in 2014 ... Ginobili had a great playoffs run in 2014 .... You don't have the real facts again ...And BTW Westbrook was in the second team all-nba in 2012 and Wade in the third but this is a another story.

KD is a great player but not at the level of LBJ ... Only one all-nba first team since 2015 (1 in his 4 healthy seasons) .... Player like LeBron is in first all-nba team in every year when he is healthy no matter what

For the blame, why does he have to take the blame when he plays great in his standards but his team lose?

[70sFan]

KD proved in the finals that he was better. I don't know what LeBron did better than him at that point.

Better passer, better defender, better leader, better ball-handler, better rebounder, better P&R player... can I stop now?

I'm curious about the defence. Durant had improved a lot, defensively; with the GSW. And Lebron did not stand his 2016 Finals defensive impact. Not just 2016 Finals, he was much worse than 08-13 James, too.

I'd think Lebron was better, offensively. His rebounding and specially playmaking gap is too big. But also don't think there were much difference between them.

Thread is getting out of the way, btw.

It's much easier to play defense when you don't have to carry the offensive load. Once James got a good support on offense, he surpassed anything KD did on defense again - see 2020.

[Amares]

LeBron clearly, better at almost every aspect of the game. But no surprise with some Durant selection, in 2016 it was already known GSW will win rings easily and KD will get cool boxscore stats. So it will be common in media and casuals that he led them to rings and was the best player.... but as expected he wasn't. Overall KD was never better than LeBron, they were never in the same tier.

[Gooner]

Better passer, better defender, better leader, better ball-handler, better rebounder, better P&R player... can I stop now?

I'm curious about the defence. Durant had improved a lot, defensively; with the GSW. And Lebron did not stand his 2016 Finals defensive impact. Not just 2016 Finals, he was much worse than 08-13 James, too.

I'd think Lebron was better, offensively. His rebounding and specially playmaking gap is too big. But also don't think there were much difference between them.

Thread is getting out of the way, btw.

It's much easier to play defense when you don't have to carry the offensive load. Once James got a good support on offense, he surpassed anything KD did on defense again - see 2020.

LeBron had a great offensive team in 2017 and he played no defense. Again with the excuses. This forum is full of LBJ fans.

Derailing (most of the thread at this point is you arguing with multiple other posters); and accusing those you disagree with of being stans is generally frowned upon too. Warned. trex

Watch on YouTube

[70sFan]

I'm curious about the defence. Durant had improved a lot, defensively; with the GSW. And Lebron did not stand his 2016 Finals defensive impact. Not just 2016 Finals, he was much worse than 08-13 James, too.

I'd think Lebron was better, offensively. His rebounding and specially playmaking gap is too big. But also don't think there were much difference between them.

Thread is getting out of the way, btw.

It's much easier to play defense when you don't have to carry the offensive load. Once James got a good support on offense, he surpassed anything KD did on defense again - see 2020.

LeBron had a great offensive team in 2017 and he played no defense. Again with the excuses. This forum is full of LBJ fans.

Watch on YouTube

So I'm LeBron fan now? This is ridiculous...

I can show you countless examples of Jordan's poor defense but you'll say that I cherry pick.

[Dupp]

Better passer, better defender, better leader, better ball-handler, better rebounder, better P&R player... can I stop now?

Tbh lebrons d in the 17 finals was really bad and KDs was decent ( with way more hep). Everything either side of that series basically i agree.

It's easier to defend when you have so much help on both sides of the ball. Cavs basically decided to forget about defense and try to outscore GSW, which wasn't possible anyway.

Overall KD was never great defender, James showed a lot of times that he could be elite defensively at various stages of his career.

I don’t disagree with any of this I just think lebron was particularly bad in this series oppose to just average or whatever. The whole cavs team and lues game plan was just plain awful though.

[Peregrine01]

KD wasn't even the most impactful player on his own team during those series. He feasted in a way few superstars ever had because the defense was so focused on his teammate. To be fair, he did capitalize.

[Gooner]

KD wasn't even the most impactful player on his own team during those series. He feasted in a way few superstars ever had because the defense was so focused on his teammate. To be fair, he did capitalize.

Look at the shooters LeBron had at that time. It's not like he was double teamed or anything, that's why he got his numbers in a loss, stopping shooters was the key..

[KTM_2813]

I'm actually not a huge fan of the "Teams weren't focusing on Durant, so he feasted" argument. It's not that teams weren't more focused on Curry a lot of the time, because I think that they were, but there were also times where Durant was genuinely playing his ass off and there was nothing you could do to stop him (e.g. his dagger three-pointer in Game 3). He deserves more credit than he gets sometimes, IMO.

At the same time, I think it's inarguable that the Warriors were a better offensive team and a superior defensive team to the Cavaliers. If you swap Durant and LeBron, I think LeBron ends up wrecking the league even more than Durant did, so I'm taking LeBron over Durant from 17-18, even though I do think it's a bit closer than some would say.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm actually not a huge fan of the "Teams weren't focusing on Durant, so he feasted" argument. It's not that teams weren't more focused on Curry a lot of the time, because I think that they were, but there were also times where Durant was genuinely playing his ass off and there was nothing you could do to stop him (e.g. his dagger three-pointer in Game 3). He deserves more credit than he gets sometimes, IMO.

What's there to be a fan of? That is what happened. Durant was left on an island a lot, and in 2017 even had many open cuts to the basket. That doesn't happen with MVP caliber players usually because teams are not that stretched.

The bold part doesn't contradict anything. He can have great games and take over and still also be a huge benefactor of having an all time great team - if we are going to say that playing with Curry, Green and Thompson didn't make his life significantly easier then why did he join them?

[No-more-rings]

Lol, those versions of Lebron are better than KD ever was and I'm not sure it's that close.

[KTM_2813]

I'm actually not a huge fan of the "Teams weren't focusing on Durant, so he feasted" argument. It's not that teams weren't more focused on Curry a lot of the time, because I think that they were, but there were also times where Durant was genuinely playing his ass off and there was nothing you could do to stop him (e.g. his dagger three-pointer in Game 3). He deserves more credit than he gets sometimes, IMO.

What's there to be a fan of? That is what happened. Durant was left on an island a lot, and in 2017 even had many open cuts to the basket. That doesn't happen with MVP caliber players usually because teams are not that stretched.

The bold part doesn't contradict anything. He can have great games and take over and still also be a huge benefactor of having an all time great team - if we are going to say that playing with Curry, Green and Thompson didn't make his life significantly easier then why did he join them?

I think what I'm trying to say, perhaps not well, is that it's not as simple as "Teams were focused on Curry, so Durant's life was easy, and therefore he deserves no credit and LeBron was clearly better." I don't think anyone has gone that far in this particular thread, but it's a sentiment that I see fairly often. In essence, I'm basically trying to say what you said: "He can have great games and take over and still also be a huge benefactor of having an all time great team." It's sometimes easy to lose sight of that first part because of just how ridiculous the Warriors were.

[Joao Saraiva]

Tbh lebrons d in the 17 finals was really bad and KDs was decent ( with way more hep). Everything either side of that series basically i agree.

It's easier to defend when you have so much help on both sides of the ball. Cavs basically decided to forget about defense and try to outscore GSW, which wasn't possible anyway.

Overall KD was never great defender, James showed a lot of times that he could be elite defensively at various stages of his career.

James was literally hiding from KD on defense.

GSW were actually playing PnR to switch, so that LBJ wouldn't guard KD. You can't go behind on screens with Curry, Klay or Kevin Durant.

And comparing GSW to those Heat teams... man, that is dishonest to say the least.

Only time the Heat were somehow comparable to that GSW team was in 13... and even then it wasn't the same.

[fanofthegreats]

This is actually a debate?

[Statlanta]

I think KD has a better case in 2013, 2014 than in 17, 18.

LeBron's had better leadership and health since.

[Dupp]

KD wasn't even the most impactful player on his own team during those series. He feasted in a way few superstars ever had because the defense was so focused on his teammate. To be fair, he did capitalize.

Look at the shooters LeBron had at that time. It's not like he was double teamed or anything, that's why he got his numbers in a loss, stopping shooters was the key..

Draymond didn’t guard tt at all and cheated off him to guard lebron the whole series. More fake news.